TF Views

Sparky Prime wrote: I'd have to second this. If a story involves god characters in it, they should be used sparingly and only for the REALLY big events. Which I believe Primus has. Like in Cybertron, even after he transforms, he's still mostly asleep. And I kinda like that he needed the help of his creations to 'pilot' his functions before his spark was fully restored at the end of the show. At which point he takes action to destroy the black hole then immediately transforms back to Cybertron and returns to sleep. Where as Unicron seems to show up in every other story and has been way overused. He's still powerful given his planet size, but doesn't seem like such a threat anymore or so godlike.

I imagine that one of the reasons an overused god becomes less awe-inspiring is that you learn more about their abilities every time they show up, and the more something is comprehended the less awe-inspiring it is.

In order for deities to be properly portrayed, they must be poorly defined.

Sparky Prime wrote:

Gomess wrote:...Transformers wandering around space in a spaceship talking about their spaceship and gods and never transforming. THAT, possibly, is my ultimate TF fiction nightmare. D=

So... Transformers: Energon?

Hey, they transformed in Energon! They had to drive through space somehow!

BWprowl wrote:

Sparky Prime wrote:

Gomess wrote:...Transformers wandering around space in a spaceship talking about their spaceship and gods and never transforming. THAT, possibly, is my ultimate TF fiction nightmare. D=

So... Transformers: Energon?

Hey, they transformed in Energon! They had to drive through space somehow!

Ohhhh I'd stopped watching TF shows with any sort of regularity by then, but I know enough about Energon. X]

Furman used the term in Spotlight: Arcee as did the Transformers Animated: Allspark Almanac II.

Okay then. I am still not sure how that works. But, okay then....

Heyyy, growing out of something =/= not finding it funny!

Agreed. But, lets face it, some fans never "grow out of" this sort of thing....

Primacron > Primus, someone out there's gotta agree with me

Agreed here as well.

Man, I'm sure there's no getting away from it now, but I really don't care for the idea that Primus and Unicron and the like are literal Gods.

Agreed here as well. We ain't getting away from it, as much as we may want to.

I think I have to dismiss his explanation much like his (or Bob's?) idea that the Vok were a super evolved form of the Swarm.

Can't dismiss it. Writer said it. It counts.

I don't really like gods showing up a lot in fiction. If anything having deities constantly meddle in mortal affairs diminishes them quite a bit. When a god shows up, it SHOULD be a big deal, not just business as usual.

This is one problem I have with the "Horus Heresy" novels. The Primarchs, and to a lesser degree the Emperor, show up enough to become almost common place. It has not devolved to the point of Furman's default for TF. But, the Emperor showing up is too common for my tastes.

Where as Unicron seems to show up in every other story and has been way overused.

For the last 10 years, damn right.

And the TF:A Allspark Almanac II claims there are 10 Cybertronian Zodiac figures, of which "The Core" and "Xal" are a part of. There certainly is precedent for other deities in the Transformers mythos at any rate.

And, the 13. Both iterations of the 13, (the Covenent and the current 13 from "Aligned"), have female members.

On an aside note, the ads for David Willis' comic on the TF wiki are really annoying. And his comic is really not-so-funny.

Kind of incestuous actually. Lets assume that Willis is not spening much, if anything, for advertising his strip on a page that he has at least some control over. But, it might mean one of two things. Either -a) advertising space on the wiki is not very valuable (meaning nobody is buying it), or...-b) "Shortpacked" needs enough of a boost that it is worth Willis sacrificing either money out of pocket or a share of wiki ad revenues to promote it.


Dom
-damn, we might have to put "David Willis", "Walky", "TF Wiki" and "Shortpacked" into the swear filter.

Dominic wrote:

I think I have to dismiss his explanation much like his (or Bob's?) idea that the Vok were a super evolved form of the Swarm.

Can't dismiss it. Writer said it. It counts.

He said it in interviews and a Japanese sourcebook and on ATT and stuff--and need I remind you, Bob 'n' Larry had VERY different ideas of where things would go in the show, and as such neither's opinion was specifically outlined. (I definitely remember one of them mentioning that he wasn't fond of the "Vok are the Swarm + others" idea.) You can use it as an ad-hoc explanation, sure, but you can't take it as raw canon.

As another example, let's say I co-wrote the Harry Potter novels with JK Rowling. JK Rowling says Dumbledore is gay; I, co-writer of the series, say that there's no way he was gay. What do you do? There's a writer conflict. You can go either way, as long as neither opinion is definitively stated in the novels themselves. (For example, if Dumbledore says, "Hey, I'm gay," then even if I, the co-writer, have a problem with it, it's right there in the book.)

Where as Unicron seems to show up in every other story and has been way overused.

For the last 10 years, damn right.

While I agree with this sentiment, Unicron actually hasn't been used all that much since 2006. Oh, sure, he's in Prime now, and was in 'one' UK Movie comic (written by Furman no less) but that's it. We haven't seen head nor hide of him (besides a reissue and a couple repaints) since Cybertron--and even then he was only a black hole and a weird tank dude.

And, the 13. Both iterations of the 13, (the Covenent and the current 13 from "Aligned"), have female members.

I don't think The Covenent are The Thirteen. The language implies the Covenent were created before Prima.

On an aside note, the ads for David Willis' comic on the TF wiki are really annoying. And his comic is really not-so-funny.

Kind of incestuous actually. Lets assume that Willis is not spening much, if anything, for advertising his strip on a page that he has at least some control over. But, it might mean one of two things. Either -a) advertising space on the wiki is not very valuable (meaning nobody is buying it), or...-b) "Shortpacked" needs enough of a boost that it is worth Willis sacrificing either money out of pocket or a share of wiki ad revenues to promote it.

Actually, Willis' website and the Wiki share the same webserver. Any profit from the Wiki's adspace goes directly back into the Wiki, so if Willis were buying the adspace, all he would be doing is supporting his own website. I'm also pretty sure that when there's nobody buying the ads, they just default to Willis' comic ads. (So, yes, nobody is buying the space.)

I've considered buying the ad space for a while to promote some of my albums though.

Dominic wrote:

Dom
-damn, we might have to put "David Willis", "Walky", "TF Wiki" and "Shortpacked" into the swear filter.

I am totally gonna use "shortpacked" as a swear from now on.

Examples: "Man, what are you shortpacked or something?" and, "Seriously? That's the most shortpacked thing I've ever heard!"

Fun times.

He said it in interviews and a Japanese sourcebook and on ATT and stuff--and need I remind you, Bob 'n' Larry had VERY different ideas of where things would go in the show, and as such neither's opinion was specifically outlined. (I definitely remember one of them mentioning that he wasn't fond of the "Vok are the Swarm + others" idea.) You can use it as an ad-hoc explanation, sure, but you can't take it as raw canon.

Forgot about that. Fair point.

While I agree with this sentiment, Unicron actually hasn't been used all that much since 2006. Oh, sure, he's in Prime now, and was in 'one' UK Movie comic (written by Furman no less) but that's it. We haven't seen head nor hide of him (besides a reissue and a couple repaints) since Cybertron--and even then he was only a black hole and a weird tank dude.

Lets see even less of Unicron, especially from Furman. (If Furman brings back Unicron in "Regeneration", I am dropping that book and putting Furman on my "actively avoid" list.)

I don't think The Covenent are The Thirteen. The language implies the Covenent were created before Prima.

The Covenant were the 13. But, there got the crisis retcon treatment at the end of "Omega Point". Make of that what you will.

I've considered buying the ad space for a while to promote some of my albums though.

If Transfans are your target market, it might be worth considering. But, really doubt that you would read anyone else with an add on anything owned by Willis.


Dom
-serious about that Furman thing.

Dominic wrote:The Covenant were the 13. But, there got the crisis retcon treatment at the end of "Omega Point". Make of that what you will.

O6 is right. The Covenant was described as a group (with just 12 members as I recall) Primus created more or less as a test to see if he could create life before he trapped himself in what would become Cybertron. Having succeeded, he charged them with guarding the Omega Point and went on with his plans for Cybertron. The 13 were the first group of Transformers created on Cybertron itself.

Onslaught Six wrote: He said it in interviews and a Japanese sourcebook and on ATT and stuff--and need I remind you, Bob 'n' Larry had VERY different ideas of where things would go in the show, and as such neither's opinion was specifically outlined. (I definitely remember one of them mentioning that he wasn't fond of the "Vok are the Swarm + others" idea.) You can use it as an ad-hoc explanation, sure, but you can't take it as raw canon.

Hm. . . now I'm thinking the very existence of the Pit and the Matrix protoform factories is debatable. The wiki says that the only canonical reference to the two factories was in the BotCon exclusive comic, The Razor's Edge, written by Ben Yee. And it was only 2 sentences at that. How official are convention comics considered?

Despite what some people will say, they are official.

Hasbro worked very closely with 3H from '01 to '04. And, Fun Publications enjoys an even better relationship with Hasbro.