TF Views

Onslaught Six wrote:his "assistant," who could very well be an unreliable narrator.

And who could also be the Matrix. =/

Onslaught Six wrote:Primacron is never actually talked to by anyone. It's all flashbacks by his "assistant," who could very well be an unreliable narrator.

Grimlock talked to him. All he really asked though was, "You creator?" Primacron replies, "yes," but I think both he and Grimlock were only talking about his newest creation, Tornadron. And I suppose when Primacron's talking to himself at the start, saying how Tornadron's predecessor was all metal, that he could be talking about anything. Eh. . . it could work. But the episode gives us no reason to suspect that the Assistant is an unreliable narrator.

moving along...

I was kind of opposed to external devices aiding in procreation, but flowers rely on insects as outside agents to do their dirty work, so I guess it's not unheard of in nature. Anyway, been kicking this idea around in my head. Goes like this:

* The Matrix and The Pit, two protoform factories on Cybertron, are established in the canon.
* These factories are the source of protoforms and both sides have a factory exclusive to their faction.
* Such factories could be built on off-world colonies as well.

* A TF couple decides they want to have their very own little protoform.
* They go to the Protoform Factory. The Factory creates lifeless, liquid metal blobs that come in their own metal egg shape (going by TF: Energon) - (or gel sack if we're going by RotF).
* CNA samples are taken from both parents and inserted into the liquid protoform.
* The protoform grows and hatches from the gel sack or egg or whatever incubator device they happen to be using (Microwave?).
* Thus we have small children TFs, born from eggs filled with gel or protoform goo.

This theory . . .
* Requires an external device. Not my favorite, and the Protoform factories are only tenuously in-canon, but I'm working with what we actually know here.
* Still rejects the idea of robots with genitalia.
* Rejects the idea of robo-sex.
* Activity during having their CNA sampled might be limited to hand-holding or gazing lovingly into each others' optics, but that's about it.
* Still allows for genetic relatives.
* Lines up with images we've seen of hatchlings in RotF (being born from eggs/gel sacks).

And I think. . . yeah, I think I'm happy with this. Although, according to the wiki, the protoform facilities were only ever mentioned on the ATT newsgroup, the Razor's Edge convention comic, and in the japanese Beast Wars Universe guidebook. And Larry DiTillo's explanation that the Vok were responsible for putting the protoform facilities on Cybertron. That just. . . no, it doesn't make sense. "Here's these giant factories and we're gonna use them, but we don't know who put them there or where they came from!" It just doesn't make sense. I think I have to dismiss his explanation much like his (or Bob's?) idea that the Vok were a super evolved form of the Swarm.

On an aside note, the ads for David Willis' comic on the TF wiki are really annoying. And his comic is really not-so-funny.

Not on the subject of robot sex, but on the subject of female TFs in general:

Primus is a god, and like any self-respecting god he shaped his creations in his own image. We also know that Unicron is a god. Is it possible that both Unicron and Primus come from a larger pantheon that contains female deities? It's possible that the female TFs are present because Primus would recognize the difference in the sexes, and plan his creations accordingly.

Just a thought.

Ursus mellifera wrote:Is it possible that both Unicron and Primus come from a larger pantheon that contains female deities?

That's an interesting thought... Some continuities claim Primus and Unicron were created by The One (aka the Sentient Core of the Universe, or the Source or the Core). And the TF:A Allspark Almanac II claims there are 10 Cybertronian Zodiac figures, of which "The Core" and "Xal" are a part of. There certainly is precedent for other deities in the Transformers mythos at any rate.

Man, I'm sure there's no getting away from it now, but I really don't care for the idea that Primus and Unicron and the like are literal Gods. I have no problem with Unicron being called a "Dark God" in the old comics because, hell, what else would you call a lifeform the size of a damn planet? May as well be a god. Of course, then the old comics go and straight-up say that the two of 'em were gods from a...previous universe? Another dimension? I forget.

I much prefer the pair of 'em being unfathomably ancient technology built by being we'll never know about for purposes that'll never be entirely clear. The ship has way fuckin' sailed on that one, though. Still, the Primacron thing's a lot closer to that, so I can totally get behind it.

138 Scourge wrote:Man, I'm sure there's no getting away from it now, but I really don't care for the idea that Primus and Unicron and the like are literal Gods. I have no problem with Unicron being called a "Dark God" in the old comics because, hell, what else would you call a lifeform the size of a damn planet?

Seconded. I'm fine with the idea of TFs having religion and viewing Primus and Unicron as gods. But to say that they're *actual* gods? Sorry, just not my cup of tea. I much prefer them to simply be built of such extremely advanced technology as to make them appear like gods to the lowly Cybertronians.

Honestly, what does the TF mythos gain by casting these two as literal gods? Are the TFs any more epic? Is their existence given some legitimacy that wasn't there before?

Mako Crab wrote:Honestly, what does the TF mythos gain by casting these two as literal gods?

dood u dont understand fiction cant be kool w/out godz its EPICCCCCC

I especially love the zodiac guys that Furman(?) came up with for that BW con comic. Sandstorm was the scorpio one, remember? Jeez. If I wanna read Saint Seiya I'll read Saint Seiya.

...Transformers wandering around space in a spaceship talking about their spaceship and gods and never transforming. THAT, possibly, is my ultimate TF fiction nightmare. D=

Gomess wrote:

Mako Crab wrote:Honestly, what does the TF mythos gain by casting these two as literal gods?

dood u dont understand fiction cant be kool w/out godz its EPICCCCCC

LOL! Okay that was cool

Gomess wrote:

Mako Crab wrote:Honestly, what does the TF mythos gain by casting these two as literal gods?

dood u dont understand fiction cant be kool w/out godz its EPICCCCCC

...Transformers wandering around space in a spaceship talking about their spaceship and gods and never transforming. THAT, possibly, is my ultimate TF fiction nightmare. D=

I don't really like gods showing up a lot in fiction. If anything having deities constantly meddle in mortal affairs diminishes them quite a bit. When a god shows up, it SHOULD be a big deal, not just business as usual.

That being said, I wouldn't really mind if Primus, at least, were a god, though Unicron shows up so much at this point that I'd like him to be downgraded to OMGWTFisthatthing, and not an actual god.

Thankfully with so many continuities to choose from we can all pretty much pick and choose what we like at this point.

Gomess wrote:...Transformers wandering around space in a spaceship talking about their spaceship and gods and never transforming. THAT, possibly, is my ultimate TF fiction nightmare. D=

So... Transformers: Energon?

Ursus mellifera wrote:I don't really like gods showing up a lot in fiction. If anything having deities constantly meddle in mortal affairs diminishes them quite a bit. When a god shows up, it SHOULD be a big deal, not just business as usual.

That being said, I wouldn't really mind if Primus, at least, were a god, though Unicron shows up so much at this point that I'd like him to be downgraded to OMGWTFisthatthing, and not an actual god.

Thankfully with so many continuities to choose from we can all pretty much pick and choose what we like at this point.

I'd have to second this. If a story involves god characters in it, they should be used sparingly and only for the REALLY big events. Which I believe Primus has. Like in Cybertron, even after he transforms, he's still mostly asleep. And I kinda like that he needed the help of his creations to 'pilot' his functions before his spark was fully restored at the end of the show. At which point he takes action to destroy the black hole then immediately transforms back to Cybertron and returns to sleep. Where as Unicron seems to show up in every other story and has been way overused. He's still powerful given his planet size, but doesn't seem like such a threat anymore or so godlike.