MP Acid Storm and Soundwave US picutres

[BWprowl]

Realize for a second that Universe Onslaught came out in 2008. That's 'five years ago.'

I think part of it is, for me at least, the first thing I did when I actually started getting 'in' to TF was to jump on the internet and look through every single Transformers toy ever made. I *wanted* to know all this stuff so I would know which stuff I wanted to get. And here you have someone who, I dunno, never glanced at Onslaught's TFwiki page and saw that a big, kickass toy of him had come out a few years ago? Get on the ball!

In three years, Classics toys will be a decade old. That will have been long enough that they'll have to start the whole cycle over again.

No they won't, because most of those toys (bar maybe the Seeker mold) are still just fine. We already get too many new Optimuses and Bumblebees and Megatrons and Grimlocks, if Hasbro actually sees fit to waste time throwing out new Classics-style toys for guys like Hot Rod, Astrotrain, or Mirage, I fuckin' quit.

[Onslaught Six]

Realize for a second that Universe Onslaught came out in 2008. That's 'five years ago.'

I think part of it is, for me at least, the first thing I did when I actually started getting 'in' to TF was to jump on the internet and look through every single Transformers toy ever made. I *wanted* to know all this stuff so I would know which stuff I wanted to get. And here you have someone who, I dunno, never glanced at Onslaught's TFwiki page and saw that a big, kickass toy of him had come out a few years ago? Get on the ball!

But also, when you and me got into the fandom, BW or BM was current. We had to catch up on, what, G1, G2 and some Beasties? Someone getting into the fandom just now has to understand that "Classics" is actually like four lines, and that there's been a bunch of radically different toylines in the last few years--some of them called the same thing as other toylines. (We now have two entirely separate toylines named Universe and Generations, even if the current Generations line is 'sort of' a continuation of the first.)

In three years, Classics toys will be a decade old. That will have been long enough that they'll have to start the whole cycle over again.

No they won't, because most of those toys (bar maybe the Seeker mold) are still just fine. We already get too many new Optimuses and Bumblebees and Megatrons and Grimlocks, if Hasbro actually sees fit to waste time throwing out new Classics-style toys for guys like Hot Rod, Astrotrain, or Mirage, I fuckin' quit.

Oh, of course they're fine, but they're also not out anymore. Someone who wants a Classics Starscream has to pay up to $60 for one.

[BWprowl]

But also, when you and me got into the fandom, BW or BM was current. We had to catch up on, what, G1, G2 and some Beasties? Someone getting into the fandom just now has to understand that "Classics" is actually like four lines, and that there's been a bunch of radically different toylines in the last few years--some of them called the same thing as other toylines. (We now have two entirely separate toylines named Universe and Generations, even if the current Generations line is 'sort of' a continuation of the first.)

Eh, fair enough. It still seems odd to me, since it'd seem like you'd *want* to learn anything and everything about the line, and though it begrudges me to admit it, which Geewun guys have gotten new toys would seem to be a logical starting point on that. But then again, that's just how I get about things. Maybe there are more 'casual' fans who don't really concern themselves with a huge kickass Onsalught that came out a while ago until it crosses their field of vision.

Oh, of course they're fine, but they're also not out anymore. Someone who wants a Classics Starscream has to pay up to $60 for one.

To me that's kind of a too-bad-so-sad scenario. Hasbro shouldn't have to cater to Johnny-come-latelys by releasing new toys of the same G1 characters every few years, the internet exists. I just paid 2.5 times the retail value to get MW Megaplex off eBay, and that's a toy I had actually been around to purchase, if I had wanted to. If Hasbro had reset their G1-remake schedule every three years and just kept pumping out the same dozen-or-so guys, then we'd never have gotten up to that Trailbreaker finally coming out that everyone was whining for, so who are they supposed to try to make happy?

[Shockwave]

I'd actually like to see the distribution system go back to the way it was back in the 80's. You had a specific set of toys that were out for that year and when retailers sold out, they got more copies of those characters. Now if we have new characters on the shelves for even a few months we're lucky and it gives parents, kids and collectors all a lot shorter time frame to try to get the toys they want.

Also Prowl, what you could be seeing is older fans who didn't grow up with the internet. I certainly didn't. When I got my first 4 minibots back on Xmas day of 1984, I immediately dubbed Windcharger the leader. Why? As far as I knew, they were the only Transformers in existence. And I didn't have an internet that I could hop onto to find out otherwise. I had to find out about other TFs from my friend across the street. So it could be that it's just not someone's instinct to check the internet for information. Yeah, we all have access to it and two seconds could reveal a lot but there's a lot of people out there that just don't think that way.

[BWprowl]

I'd actually like to see the distribution system go back to the way it was back in the 80's. You had a specific set of toys that were out for that year and when retailers sold out, they got more copies of those characters. Now if we have new characters on the shelves for even a few months we're lucky and it gives parents, kids and collectors all a lot shorter time frame to try to get the toys they want.

I'd kinda be against that, given that we'd only get a couple dozen different toys per year that way. The current method allows for a much greater breadth of options and characters released, even if we have to resort to ordering some of them online thanks to stores' shisety ordering methods.

Also Prowl, what you could be seeing is older fans who didn't grow up with the internet. I certainly didn't. When I got my first 4 minibots back on Xmas day of 1984, I immediately dubbed Windcharger the leader. Why? As far as I knew, they were the only Transformers in existence. And I didn't have an internet that I could hop onto to find out otherwise. I had to find out about other TFs from my friend across the street. So it could be that it's just not someone's instinct to check the internet for information. Yeah, we all have access to it and two seconds could reveal a lot but there's a lot of people out there that just don't think that way.

Well that's just silly. If they were around that long ago, then they surely would've been around for guys like Onslaught first coming out, to say nothing of the new toy that only came out five years ago. So that's no excuse.

Furthermore, if someone can be online and *not* think to use the search toolbar that's built into every web browser these days to ask it questions about which Transformers toys have come out...well, I could say some disparaging things about people and willful ignorance and the state of the world in the age of information we live in today, but I won't.

[Tigermegatron]

I don't have the time nor gasoline money to spend/waste anymore. These days,I prefer to order on-line & get free shipping fo my TF purchases when they reach a certain limit.

[Shockwave]

I'd actually like to see the distribution system go back to the way it was back in the 80's. You had a specific set of toys that were out for that year and when retailers sold out, they got more copies of those characters. Now if we have new characters on the shelves for even a few months we're lucky and it gives parents, kids and collectors all a lot shorter time frame to try to get the toys they want.

I'd kinda be against that, given that we'd only get a couple dozen different toys per year that way. The current method allows for a much greater breadth of options and characters released, even if we have to resort to ordering some of them online thanks to stores' shisety ordering methods.

Also Prowl, what you could be seeing is older fans who didn't grow up with the internet. I certainly didn't. When I got my first 4 minibots back on Xmas day of 1984, I immediately dubbed Windcharger the leader. Why? As far as I knew, they were the only Transformers in existence. And I didn't have an internet that I could hop onto to find out otherwise. I had to find out about other TFs from my friend across the street. So it could be that it's just not someone's instinct to check the internet for information. Yeah, we all have access to it and two seconds could reveal a lot but there's a lot of people out there that just don't think that way.

Well that's just silly. If they were around that long ago, then they surely would've been around for guys like Onslaught first coming out, to say nothing of the new toy that only came out five years ago. So that's no excuse.

Furthermore, if someone can be online and *not* think to use the search toolbar that's built into every web browser these days to ask it questions about which Transformers toys have come out...well, I could say some disparaging things about people and willful ignorance and the state of the world in the age of information we live in today, but I won't.

The problem is that out of those dozens and dozens of toys how many are people actually going to buy? I doubt any one person is buying all of it. Besides, with as many TF lines as Hasbro has now, they could give us far more product and just refresh it throughout the year. Even online stores tend to only get certain waves refreshed once, maybe twice and that's about it. After that, good luck, you're now paying some scalper a bajillion times more for something that realistically should still be at retail. It's a very "blink and you miss it" world for toy buying right now and I hate. Seriously, where's the fire? Slow the hell down a bit.

The Achilles Heel of this argument is that someone would have to know that there's actually something to search for in the first place. Case in point: When the Botcon Obsidian was announced I glanced at it briefly and assumed it was a straight reissue of the BM basic toy. When I actually looked at it, I had to look up Highbrow and... whoever the other one of that mold is cause I can't remember... but the point is those toys didn't come out that long ago and I still had to look them up because I was unaware of them. Even though I was "around" for their release. As a general rule, people don't usually go looking for things they don't know exist.

Now, sometimes in looking for other stuff you can come across stuff you didn't know about, but to assume that every Transfan on the planet knows about every toy for the last 5 years... It really just depends on what part of the franchise they focus on. In my case I probably walked right past those toys on the shelves but didn't even take notice because I saw wall of movieverse and just kept walking. My point is that with as many facets to the TF franchise it's easy to focus on one part of it to the exclusion of the rest of it. And to assume that every Transfan knows everything is really an abusrd concept because of it. It just seems like a harsh attitude to have.

[BWprowl]

The problem is that out of those dozens and dozens of toys how many are people actually going to buy? I doubt any one person is buying all of it. Besides, with as many TF lines as Hasbro has now, they could give us far more product and just refresh it throughout the year. Even online stores tend to only get certain waves refreshed once, maybe twice and that's about it. After that, good luck, you're now paying some scalper a bajillion times more for something that realistically should still be at retail. It's a very "blink and you miss it" world for toy buying right now and I hate. Seriously, where's the fire? Slow the hell down a bit.

That's my point though: More toys released in a given time is more stuff that I might be likely to buy. If only a dozen toys came out in a year, they might all be things I'm flat-out not interested in, like 75% of the TFPrime line was. But when they release a whole pile of stuff, across multiple different lines, that shotgun effect creates a greater chance that there will be something I actually want, rather than a few things that I avoid. Buyers get more options and more things they might want to buy, and Hasbro gets more sales overall because of the increased variety. Everybody wins this way.

The Achilles Heel of this argument is that someone would have to know that there's actually something to search for in the first place. Case in point: When the Botcon Obsidian was announced I glanced at it briefly and assumed it was a straight reissue of the BM basic toy. When I actually looked at it, I had to look up Highbrow and... whoever the other one of that mold is cause I can't remember... but the point is those toys didn't come out that long ago and I still had to look them up because I was unaware of them. Even though I was "around" for their release. As a general rule, people don't usually go looking for things they don't know exist.

Now, sometimes in looking for other stuff you can come across stuff you didn't know about, but to assume that every Transfan on the planet knows about every toy for the last 5 years... It really just depends on what part of the franchise they focus on. In my case I probably walked right past those toys on the shelves but didn't even take notice because I saw wall of movieverse and just kept walking. My point is that with as many facets to the TF franchise it's easy to focus on one part of it to the exclusion of the rest of it. And to assume that every Transfan knows everything is really an abusrd concept because of it. It just seems like a harsh attitude to have.

I can buy that you may have missed Highbrow, given that he and the Battle Blades Optimus Prime (and the purple The Fallen, I think) he shipped with were part of one of those 'blink and you'll miss it' late-line waves that were only in stores for a little bit, so if you were somehow not informed they were coming out, you might not have seen them. But it's pretty impressive you missed hearing about the redeco, Powerdive. He was one of the Voyagers from that Generations GDO assortment everyone was shitting their pants over a few months ago, so a lot of people were talking about him, Hot Spot, and the guys in the smaller size-classes.

My point is that spending any amount of time talking with people online about TFs these days means you stand a good chace of getting news about what's coming out at a given moment. Since about...Armada, there hasn't been a time that I saw a TF toy on the shelf that I wasn't already aware was coming out. It's the point I was making that started this whole discussion that if you're a 'fan' of something, it seems like you should be attentive to it.

[Shockwave]

The problem is that out of those dozens and dozens of toys how many are people actually going to buy? I doubt any one person is buying all of it. Besides, with as many TF lines as Hasbro has now, they could give us far more product and just refresh it throughout the year. Even online stores tend to only get certain waves refreshed once, maybe twice and that's about it. After that, good luck, you're now paying some scalper a bajillion times more for something that realistically should still be at retail. It's a very "blink and you miss it" world for toy buying right now and I hate. Seriously, where's the fire? Slow the hell down a bit.

That's my point though: More toys released in a given time is more stuff that I might be likely to buy. If only a dozen toys came out in a year, they might all be things I'm flat-out not interested in, like 75% of the TFPrime line was. But when they release a whole pile of stuff, across multiple different lines, that shotgun effect creates a greater chance that there will be something I actually want, rather than a few things that I avoid. Buyers get more options and more things they might want to buy, and Hasbro gets more sales overall because of the increased variety. Everybody wins this way.

The Achilles Heel of this argument is that someone would have to know that there's actually something to search for in the first place. Case in point: When the Botcon Obsidian was announced I glanced at it briefly and assumed it was a straight reissue of the BM basic toy. When I actually looked at it, I had to look up Highbrow and... whoever the other one of that mold is cause I can't remember... but the point is those toys didn't come out that long ago and I still had to look them up because I was unaware of them. Even though I was "around" for their release. As a general rule, people don't usually go looking for things they don't know exist.

Now, sometimes in looking for other stuff you can come across stuff you didn't know about, but to assume that every Transfan on the planet knows about every toy for the last 5 years... It really just depends on what part of the franchise they focus on. In my case I probably walked right past those toys on the shelves but didn't even take notice because I saw wall of movieverse and just kept walking. My point is that with as many facets to the TF franchise it's easy to focus on one part of it to the exclusion of the rest of it. And to assume that every Transfan knows everything is really an abusrd concept because of it. It just seems like a harsh attitude to have.

I can buy that you may have missed Highbrow, given that he and the Battle Blades Optimus Prime (and the purple The Fallen, I think) he shipped with were part of one of those 'blink and you'll miss it' late-line waves that were only in stores for a little bit, so if you were somehow not informed they were coming out, you might not have seen them. But it's pretty impressive you missed hearing about the redeco, Powerdive. He was one of the Voyagers from that Generations GDO assortment everyone was shitting their pants over a few months ago, so a lot of people were talking about him, Hot Spot, and the guys in the smaller size-classes.

My point is that spending any amount of time talking with people online about TFs these days means you stand a good chace of getting news about what's coming out at a given moment. Since about...Armada, there hasn't been a time that I saw a TF toy on the shelf that I wasn't already aware was coming out. It's the point I was making that started this whole discussion that if you're a 'fan' of something, it seems like you should be attentive to it.

I guess it's just a difference in preference then. I'd prefer to have more opportunity to get the toys I want than to be "shotgunned" with a bunch of shit I don't want. And really with as many lines as they have, there's really no reason why they can't just do both. Maybe switch things up a bit. Alternate waves between new shit and restock old shit. Then everyone gets shit they want. Case in point, if they were still refreshing the GDO cases with Hot Spot, more people would have Hot Spot. And that's another thing that annoys me about toy distribution: Shortpacking. Why the fuck do they do this? Seriously, why design a toy if you're only going to release like, ten of them? That's the kind shit that should be left to TFCC/Botcon exclusives, not retail product that you want everyone to buy and have access to.

Of course, I'm sure most of my frustration comes from living in the scalper capital of the world. If the toys aisles here didn't get picked clean the second shit drops I might not be so bitchy about it. But, that's the other thing is that the current model allows for that shit to happen and even causes it. I mean, If MP Starscream was getting refreshed throughout the year he was released and we knew he'd be available all year, do you think it would have been scalped as much as it did? Or even at all? What's the point of scalping something that you and your scalpee base knows is going to still be available later on? There would be no point to it.

As for the internet thing, again, that's making a pretty big assumption about "fandom". Not everyone has unlimited hours to spend on the internet. In fact, I know a lot of people that don't really spend a lot of their free time online. I run into this attitude a lot on TFW regarding discussion threads that new members weren't there for. Like every time someone who just joined starts a "FIRRIB" thread and swear to God, the first ten posts are all "oh not this again" or "Weren't you here for the last one" and shit like that. Well, no, they weren't there for the last one. That's the point. Not everyone lives their entire lives online.

[Tigermegatron]

The problem is that out of those dozens and dozens of toys how many are people actually going to buy? I doubt any one person is buying all of it. Besides, with as many TF lines as Hasbro has now, they could give us far more product and just refresh it throughout the year. Even online stores tend to only get certain waves refreshed once, maybe twice and that's about it. After that, good luck, you're now paying some scalper a bajillion times more for something that realistically should still be at retail. It's a very "blink and you miss it" world for toy buying right now and I hate. Seriously, where's the fire? Slow the hell down a bit.

That's my point though: More toys released in a given time is more stuff that I might be likely to buy. If only a dozen toys came out in a year, they might all be things I'm flat-out not interested in, like 75% of the TFPrime line was. But when they release a whole pile of stuff, across multiple different lines, that shotgun effect creates a greater chance that there will be something I actually want, rather than a few things that I avoid. Buyers get more options and more things they might want to buy, and Hasbro gets more sales overall because of the increased variety. Everybody wins this way.

The Achilles Heel of this argument is that someone would have to know that there's actually something to search for in the first place. Case in point: When the Botcon Obsidian was announced I glanced at it briefly and assumed it was a straight reissue of the BM basic toy. When I actually looked at it, I had to look up Highbrow and... whoever the other one of that mold is cause I can't remember... but the point is those toys didn't come out that long ago and I still had to look them up because I was unaware of them. Even though I was "around" for their release. As a general rule, people don't usually go looking for things they don't know exist.

Now, sometimes in looking for other stuff you can come across stuff you didn't know about, but to assume that every Transfan on the planet knows about every toy for the last 5 years... It really just depends on what part of the franchise they focus on. In my case I probably walked right past those toys on the shelves but didn't even take notice because I saw wall of movieverse and just kept walking. My point is that with as many facets to the TF franchise it's easy to focus on one part of it to the exclusion of the rest of it. And to assume that every Transfan knows everything is really an abusrd concept because of it. It just seems like a harsh attitude to have.

I can buy that you may have missed Highbrow, given that he and the Battle Blades Optimus Prime (and the purple The Fallen, I think) he shipped with were part of one of those 'blink and you'll miss it' late-line waves that were only in stores for a little bit, so if you were somehow not informed they were coming out, you might not have seen them. But it's pretty impressive you missed hearing about the redeco, Powerdive. He was one of the Voyagers from that Generations GDO assortment everyone was shitting their pants over a few months ago, so a lot of people were talking about him, Hot Spot, and the guys in the smaller size-classes.

My point is that spending any amount of time talking with people online about TFs these days means you stand a good chace of getting news about what's coming out at a given moment. Since about...Armada, there hasn't been a time that I saw a TF toy on the shelf that I wasn't already aware was coming out. It's the point I was making that started this whole discussion that if you're a 'fan' of something, it seems like you should be attentive to it.

I think it's bad strategy on Hasbro's part to release 5+ different MEDIOCRE TF toy lines in one year. Because the awful/bad selling TF toy lines (kreo,bot shots,rescue bots) make USA/GLOBAL Retailers lose faith in all Hasbro TF toy lines. When retailers get stuck with un-sold items they need to clearance to get rid off WHAT HAPPENS IS THEY ORDER LESS VOLUME WHEN NEWER TF TOY LINES GET RELEASED IN STORES.

I prefer Hasbro release Two different TF toy lines per year that are a levels above Medicore,like in the great levels. One main TF line supported by media & Generations is enough.