Retro Comics are Awesome

[Dominic]

Yeah, but it didn't seem to belong in the current comics thread. I debated a bit and finally went with Retro. If nothing else, this story simply could not be told in the same way in current DC continuity, given how much it depends on character history and relationships that no longer exist, so it's definitely retro.

I have generally assumed that "retro" was generally anything more than a decade old. And, for the big two, I would classify anything from before a significant creative or editorial shift as retro.

For example, Bendis' "Avengers" run was, and remains, influential. However, that was were over a decade ago. And, they were well before "Heroic Age".

Right now, I put the cut-off for Marvel at "Secret Wars", and the cut-off for DC at "Flashpoint". (However, if DC actually picks a direction of some kind, I would move the cut-off up to "Rebirth".)

[andersonh1]

America Vs. the Justice Society tpb
This volume collects a four part mini-series from the early 80s. The story is set on the original Earth 2, before the Crisis. Batman is dead, and he left behind a diary that accuses the Justice Society of having worked for Hitler during WW2. Clark Kent, editor of the Daily Star, feels compelled to publish the story, and once it goes public there's an outcry, and the JSA are dragged before a Senate Committee hearing. Bruce Wayne's daughter Helena (the original Huntress) defends the team, while Dick Grayson cannot believe that the man he idolizes and who raised him could ever be lying about such a thing.

The plot is little more than an excuse for Roy Thomas to go back and summarize the history of the Justice Society, since the team's defense is to go through all of their cases in an effort to show how much good they've done over the years. Keep in mind that this was published well before we started getting trade paperbacks or comprehensive reprints of older material, so for the reader of the day who had no way to read any stories from All-Star Comics, other than the occasional backup or inclusion in a 100 page digest, this would have been a nice way to summarize the contents of All-Star Comics. I have all 12 All-Star Archives reprinting issues 1-57, so I have read them all, and it's clear where the artist of the series is redrawing covers or panels from an All-Star issue as the team member describes the incident. Roy Thomas also takes the opportunity to explain away stories where the JSA end up on and find life on all the planets of the Solar System, and to tie together the various scientists and time travel plots that cropped up in All-Star over the years, as well as tidying up a few other continuity issues. And the recaps go beyond the Golden Age stories into the Silver Age appearances starting with Flash of Two Worlds, and moving through the JSA/JLA team ups and the 70s All-Star revival, though these don't get nearly the detailed retelling that the Golden Age stories do.

The time travel aspects of the plot are significant, because the villain behind the whole thing is Per Degaton, and Batman's diary was somehow a complicated trap to expose the truth. That part of the story really doesn't work very well, and it's obvious that it was mainly an afterthought. The real point of this mini series was to restate the actual printed history of the JSA for an audience who had most likely never been able to read it, and it's a reasonable effort.

[Shockwave]

I'll post some thoughts on Blackest Night and Brightest Day later since those were the first and only DC series that I actually got and read consistently (my set had a few issues missing, but nothing that really detracted from the story).

[Dominic]

The time travel aspects of the plot are significant, because the villain behind the whole thing is Per Degaton, and Batman's diary was somehow a complicated trap to expose the truth. That part of the story really doesn't work very well, and it's obvious that it was mainly an afterthought. The real point of this mini series was to restate the actual printed history of the JSA for an audience who had most likely never been able to read it, and it's a reasonable effort.

They could not come up with a better framing sequence for a series of flashbacks? (I dunno, maybe Batman's journals being the reason the team would be sitting around talking about the "good old days", and that would justify flashbacks?) Yeah, Silver Age comics. But....Silver Age comics.

Thomas is one of those writers that I liked as a kid, but I cannot read now.

[Shockwave]

Ok, so my thoughts on Blackest Night and Brightest Day: I think Anderson's review is pretty spot on. I also was never really a fan of Zombies, but they somehow keep popping up in stuff I like. Anyway, I think describing the Black Lanterns as Zombies In SPAAAAAAAACE is a little inaccurate. They're really they dead sent to turn everyone else dead. And I also liked how the BL rings didn't just find characters that were currently dead, but living characters that had previously been dead, like Superman. Like Anderson said, it was nice to see the issue of the constant cycle of death and resurrection addressed in continuity and that was really the thing that stood out to me and has stuck with me since I've read it. I also seem to recall that this is when they introduced the "Rainbow Corp" of other colored Lanterns and explained the emotional spectrum. I recall at the time thinking that it was an interesting concept. The downfall of that is that the characters that are the "Lanterns" run the risk of becoming one dimensional, essentially only being about that one single emotion. Fortunately, I don't recall seeing that happen in either Blackest Night or Brightest Day, but I have not read any of DC's stuff after that. I seem to recall that I enjoyed the story and I also recall that others here were enjoying it too, which is why I even started reading it to begin with. Not long after that though, DC went and announced that they were etcha-sketching their universe again, essentially telling me that this epic story they just told me never happened and after that, I just got out of non TF related comics completely. The only exception is MOTU which is currently put out by DC, although I've been annoyed with the overall tone of the current series for some time, so if this latest thing they're pulling really is their death nell, then I won't be too broken up about it. And the fact that I've just said that about the only content for one of my favorite properties is... Yeah, I can't believe I just said that. MOTU right now is where Transformers was back in the early 90's. No one remembers it, what little fiction does come out is only supported by the few hardcore fans that do remember it, there's no major toy line supporting it and no public awareness.

[Dominic]

The property was mishandled for so long that I just gave up on it.

A decade ago, the comic was start and go. The cartoon was on inconsistently (and and times I was not going to be around). And, the toys were poorly distributed.

DC is killing MoTU though? I thought Abnett would be able to carry that series.

[Shockwave]

The property was mishandled for so long that I just gave up on it.

A decade ago, the comic was start and go. The cartoon was on inconsistently (and and times I was not going to be around). And, the toys were poorly distributed.

DC is killing MoTU though? I thought Abnett would be able to carry that series.

Indeed. Even I couldn't keep up with the 200X cartoon. I only saw the end of the series when I dowloaded it on the 360. When even the hardcore fans can't follow your property, that's a problem. The toys have gotten away from me. They're well made and are actually good toys, but getting them is cost prohibitive, even now when I have money for such things. Teela goes for around $200. The other core characters (Trap Jaw, Beast Man, Man At Arms) are north of at least $100. At this point it would be easier and cheaper to get the entire 200X line than the MOTUC line.

Abnett has been literally writing the same story since the first issue. First it was Hordak has god like power and is destroying eveything and... that's been cycling through being the schtick for every MOTU villain. First Hordak, then King Hsss, then Hordak again, then Skeletor, then Evil Lynn, and finally there's no one left. But after at least two years of the same story and tone, I'm ready for something different. It's been like an 80's sci fi movie where it's post apocolyptic freedom fighters... blah blah blah. That can work for some franchises, but it's not a tone and feel that I like for MOTU. And the pacing is dreadful. Covers often promise story elements that don't show up or have any pay off until several issues later leading to a consistent feeling of false advertising. I'm used to MOTU having a feel that has a mix of action with some light heartedness and this book has never had that and it seems lacking because of it. I think I have the same complaint with it that I do with Man of Steel (the film): It takes that thing I liked from the 80's and sucked all the charm and fun out of it.

[andersonh1]

Mapping out possible future omnibus editions. http://marvelmasterworksfansite.yuku.co ... vh6cSL2RVk

Batman: The Golden Age Omnibus Volume 3
* Collecting Detective Comics 75-95, Batman 16-26 and World's Finest Comics 10-16
* Spans from May 1943 to January 1945
* 878 pages of comics material, all previously Archived

Batman: The Golden Age Omnibus Volume 4
* Collecting Detective Comics 96-119, Batman 27-37 and World's Finest Comics 17-25
* Spans from February 1945 to January 1947
* 872 pages of comics material, all previously Archived

Batman: The Golden Age Omnibus Volume 5
* Collecting Detective Comics 120-141, Batman 38-49 and World's Finest Comics 26-36
* Spans from January 1947 to November 1948
* 891 pages of comics material, including 508 pages of UNARCHIVED material from Batman 38-49 and World's Finest Comics 33-36

Batman: The Golden Age Omnibus Volume 6
* Collecting Detective Comics 142-165, Batman 50-60 and World's Finest Comics 37-47
* Spans from December 1948 to November 1950
* 866 pages of comics material, including 554 pages of UNARCHIVED material from Batman 50-60 and World's Finest Comics 37-47

Batman: The Golden Age Omnibus Volume 7
* Collecting Detective Comics 166-187, Batman 61-72 and World's Finest Comics 48-59
* Spans from November 1950 to September 1952
* 884 pages of comics material, including 818 pages of UNARCHIVED material (only 66 pages from Detective Comics 166-170 previously collected)

Batman: The Golden Age Omnibus Volume 8
* Collecting Detective Comics 188-211, Batman 73-86 and World's Finest Comics 60-70
* Spans from October 1952 to September 1954
* 893 pages of UNARCHIVED comics material

Batman: The Golden Age Omnibus Volume 9
* Collecting Detective Comics 212-241 and Batman 87-106
* Spans from October 1954 to March 1957
* 888 pages of UNARCHIVED comics material

Batman: The Golden Age Omnibus Volume 10
* Collecting Detective Comics 242-271 and Batman 107-126
* Spans from April 1957 to September 1959
* 890 pages of UNARCHIVED comics material

Batman: The Golden Age Omnibus Volume 11
* Collecting Detective Comics 272-300 and Batman 127-145
* Spans October 1959 to February 1962
* 896 pages of UNARCHIVED comics material

Batman: The Golden Age Omnibus Volume 12
* Collecting Detective Comics 301-326 and Batman 146-163
* Spans March 1962 to April 1964
* 837 pages of UNARCHIVED comics material

Based on this, and assuming sales warrant it, I'd expect to get at least four volumes of Batman, simply because the material's already been restored and published, so this is just repackaging and reselling it. For people like me who hadn't bought it before, it's cheaper than the Archives, and in a larger format. And it's not an impossible number of volumes for DC to produce, if they've any interest in doing so.

http://marvelmasterworksfansite.yuku.co ... vh8MCL2RVk

Superman: The Golden Age Omnibus Volume 3
* Collecting Action Comics 48-67, Superman 16-25 and World's Finest Comics 5-11
* Spans from March 1942 to December 1943
* 882 pages of comics material, all previously Archived

Superman: The Golden Age Omnibus Volume 4
* Collecting Action Comics 68-91, Superman 26-36 and World's Finest Comics 12-19
* Spans from December 1943 to December 1945
* 876 pages of comics material, including 131 pages of UNARCHIVED material from Action Comics 85-91 and Superman 36

Superman: The Golden Age Omnibus Volume 5
* Collecting Action Comics 92-113, Superman 37-48 and World's Finest Comics 20-29
* Spans from December 1945 to October 1947
* 887 pages of comics material, including 756 pages of UNARCHIVED material from Action Comics 92-113 and Superman 37-48

Superman: The Golden Age Omnibus Volume 6
* Collecting Action Comics 114-137, Superman 49-59 and World's Finest Comics 30-42
* Spans from October 1947 to October 1949
* 864 pages of comics material, including 823 pages of UNARCHIVED material (only 41 pages from World's Finest Comics 30-32 previously collected)

Superman: The Golden Age Omnibus Volume 7
* Collecting Action Comics 138-160, Superman 60-71 and World's Finest Comics 43-53
* Spans from October 1949 to September 1951
* 876 pages of UNARCHIVED comics material

Superman: The Golden Age Omnibus Volume 8
* Collecting Action Comics 161-185, Superman 72-83 and World's Finest Comics 54-66
* Spans from October 1951 to October 1953
* 877 pages of UNARCHIVED comics material

Superman: The Golden Age Omnibus Volume 9
* Collecting Action Comics 186-210, Superman 84-100 and World's Finest Comics 67-70
* Spans from October 1953 to November 1955
* 876 pages of UNARCHIVED comics material

Superman: The Golden Age Omnibus Volume 10
* Collecting Action Comics 211-240 and Superman 101-121
* Spans from November 1955 to May 1958
* 901 pages of UNARCHIVED comics material

Once you get to 1958, you get to Silver Age Superman material already published, so I fully expect a Silver Age Superman omnibus at some point.

Again, if sales warrant, this makes reprinting all this old material much easier to achieve than the comparatively short Archive editions did. I know the two Green Lantern Omnibus volumes I own go through GL #45, which it took the Archives 6 volumes to reach. And for DC, again it's repackaging material that has already been sold, up to a point, so costs should be low and profits better.

It's fun to speculate. I'd love to be able to read all that early Batman and Superman. Some of it's good, some of it's light and disposable, and some of it's pretty bad. But I'm still curious enough to read it at least once, just to see what it was like way back when.

[andersonh1]

Justice League of America Omnibus
Silver Age DC is always hit or miss for me. It took me awhile to warm up to it at all because it's so heavy on plot and light on character, and because so much of it drifts towards absurdity, even for comic book storytelling. But there's a certain appeal to the type of "puzzle box" storytelling techniques the writers often employ. It's the type of thing where you see one of those crazy covers and wonder how the characters could possibly behave in that way, and then within the story it all falls into place. It often takes a contrivance to make that happen, admittedly, but it's engaging on a certain level.

The Brave and the Bold #28 - Starro the Conqueror!
I've read this before, years ago, back when DC published the single issue "Silver Age Classics", which would reprint first appearances of characters, or key issues like the first GL/GA story. Like so many characters and concepts from early Silver Age DC, the Justice League of America got a tryout in another book before getting their own series.

Before I get into the plot, I want to note that the story structure is almost identical to the last few years of All-Star Comics and the Justice Society of America. It's pretty clear that DC modeled the new series entirely after the old one using their then-current characters. The formula is an opening chapter that details the threat which forces the JLA to meet in order to deal with it. The middle three chapters of the story see the team split into various combinations of characters who fight henchmen or secondary enemies, and then the final chapter seems the entire JLA defeat the main threat. It's the exact same formula that All-Star Comics used, even though that book ended in 1951 and this comic was published in 1960.

Chapter 1 - Aquaman is warned by a fish of a giant starfish who came from the sky, and who turned three normal starfish into beings like him. He summons the JLA. Superman and Batman are too busy to make it, but Wonder Woman, the Flash (Barry Allen), Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) and the Martian Manhunter meet with Aquaman as he explains the threat. The team divides up to deal with the henchmen.

Chapter 2 - Green Lantern takes on one of Starro's lieutenants as he tries to steal and absorb the power of a nuclear bomb.

Chapter 3 - Wonder Woman and the Martian Manhunter defeat a lieutenant who attempts to absorb all the knowledge of a group of scientists, and they learn that this lieutenant can fire nuclear blasts. Each lieutenant can absorb power or knowledge and pass it on to the others.

Chapter 4 - The Flash ends up in Happy Harbor where the third lieutenant is mind controlling the town, all except for "Snapper" Carr. I have to share some of this guy's dialogue at some point. It's unbelievably bad faux-Beatnik, and what's worse, his girlfriend talks the same way when she shows up! His resistance to the starfish's mind control turns out to be the key to defeating Starro.

Chapter 5 - The five JLA members and Snapper converge to fight Starro, powered up by the knowledge and energy absorbed by his now-defeated lieutenants. They figure out that Snapper is able to resist thanks to the fact that he was putting lime on his dad's lawn, and they grab a ton of lime and dump it on Starro. Lime apparently affects giant telepathic space starfish in the same way that it affects tiny Earth starfish. Who knew? And Snapper is made an honorary member, much to the dismay of readers everywhere.

So this is a typical goofy Silver Age story from DC. It's 56 years old, and it's interesting to read the early adventures of these characters, all of whom are still being published to this day, as is the Justice League. They've all changed in various ways, but clearly the characters and the concept have staying power and appeal, despite the changing tastes of the audience. There would be no JLI, no Grant Morrison JLA series, no Justice League Unlimited animated series, and no Justice League movie to look forward to next year without the foundation laid down here. And despite the absurd villains and the separation of characters into various chapters, there is a certain appeal to watching them learn about their enemy, share what they've learned and work together to find a solution. It's that problem-solving/puzzle box component so common to Silver Age storytelling.

I find these old stories entertaining. They're not deep or complex by any means, but they're light and fun, and they fill in gaps in character history.

[andersonh1]

Superman #76 (1952)
The Mightiest Team in the World!
This is sold as the first team-up of Batman and Superman. They actually meet in All-Star #7, and then work with the JSA and each other in All-Star #36. So technically it's not their first meeting or first team-up, but perhaps it's the first time the two of them work together without other heroes around. This story has been reprinted many times, and oddly, the version used for the World's Finest omnibus was apparently taken from a previous reprint, because the caption reads differently than the one from my copy of "Superman: From the 30s to the 70s."

1952 isn't the Silver Age, but it's clearly headed in that direction. The story is built on contrivances and coincidence and carelessness. Bruce Wayne is allowing himself a vacation, and he decides to take a cruise. Clark Kent is also taking a vacation, and books a room on the same cruise. The cruise company overbooks, and ends up forcing people to share cabins. Guess who ends up in the same cabin? And if you were to also guess that there would be a crime that would force Superman and Batman into action, you wouldn't be wrong.

A dock fire before the ship leaves forces Bruce and Clark to change into their alter egos, but the way they decide to do it is to pretend they hadn't noticed the fire and go to sleep early, turning off the lights in their cabin. They each change in the dark, reasoning that the other guy won't notice and will just think they're changing for bed. But then a light shines through the porthole, revealing to each man that the other is a famous superhero and giving away each other's secret identity. They decide to talk later and head out to deal with the fire, which was set to cover a jewel robbery.

The robber has escaped, but Batman thinks he's on the cruise ship. Superman searches the ship with his x-ray vision, but cannot find any sign of the diamonds. The two stay on board, with Clark pretending to be seasick and Bruce saying he'll look after him, much to the disgust of Lois Lane, who is of course, also on board. Hijinks ensue as Superman and Batman plot to have Batman pretend to be interested in Lois to keep her off guard, but she's wise to their plan and plays right along, much to Superman's chagrin.

In the end, the crook tries to escape by helicopter after sabotaging the ship. Superman saves the ship while hurling Batman at the copter. He captures the crooks and brings them in, and he figures out that the diamonds were hidden in the bullets in the man's gun because the man wouldn't shoot at him. Superman couldn't see them because the bullets were made of lead. Things settle down to normal and once the boat returns to land, Batman and Superman wonder which of them Lois really likes and go to find out, only to see her going to dinner with a delighted Robin.

Superhero sitcom. That's where I'd place this story, and back in the day when comic book writers didn't try to take themselves so seriously, it wasn't unusual to see this type of plot play out, full of blunders and double crossing and characters who should be smart acting less than intelligent. It's not my favorite story, because even by the standards of the day, Bruce and Clark are amazingly careless to risk changing to their heroic identity in the same room as the other guy. It's a little too much suspension of disbelief. But it's a sitcom as much as anything else, and so you just have to roll with it. It is nice to finally be able to read this story in color, since the other version I own is black and white linework.