TimeLines (BotCon) 2013 discussion

[Tigermegatron]

Damn dude, did the fan club rape your puppy or something? I've seriously never seen this level of vitriol for something that someone claims to have little/no interest in.

That's ridiculous. I mean, I get the hating scalpers part, but TFCC isn't in on it. They sell their items for a certain price, what happens after that they have no control over.

I speak from eperience,I was a TFCC club member for 3 years. I got treated like a commoner while their was a elite special group that got treated like kings & bragged about it,then rubbed it into the commers faces like grammar school kids would act but more meaner.

Why is it so hard to believe that 50/50 hate/like TFCC/Fun pub?

Personally,I think TFCC is the worse thing to own/happen to a liscensed Transformers toy convention. 3H did better job with the liscense of Botcon.

Here's a few quick short reasons why I think TFCC is not good for the botcon liscense.

0- The fun pub owner is lazy & he's just in it for the profits. The fun pub owner turned over the TFCC convention/club to a bunch of elite/poular on-line TF fans. These elite members run everything & make all the important decisions,while The fun pub owner is invisble,hides & devotes his life to non-TF related things. the fun pub owner is not a TF fan so he is clueless of what the majority of TF world wide fans want. the fun pub owner never post replies/threads on that elite club message forum,he selected a elite fan to act as the main boss. the fun pub owner doesn't get all into it & select TF themes/characters for botcons conventions/club toys,he gave that responsiblty to other elite fans he gave the face/boss title to. all Fun pub does,is sign off on everything,handle the money & makes the final deals.

1- Attendees that can only afford to pay $20 general admittance only get a 2 day convention with less hours compared to those who pay over $330 for a package deal. Those who pay $330 get a 5 day convention,with extended hours & much more perks.

1a- TFCC/fun pub offers stay at home club members that chance to buy a gift set of convention toys at full prices with no perks. Stay at home buyers of the gift set can't order any of the add-on figures,they get no convention freebie toy that scalps for over $75 on ebay.
Stay at home gift set buyers pay $330+ but get much less than those members who attend the convention & pay for the gift set toys.

1b- Those TFCC members who pay $330+ for the gift set & attend botcon get the following perks: their 5 days convention admittance paid in full,as this is part of the $330+ gift set package deal. freebie convention toy that gets scalped on ebay for over $75. autograps,entrance into those Q & A live panel room. walking/buying on the dealers floor. seeing test shots/art from hasbro toys/media reveals. those who pay $330 & attend the convention get the perks of being able to buy as many souvenir/add-on & gift set boxed/loose figures as they feel like buying. that $330 gift set price for attending members gets them, access into the awards dinner.
other perks the club has a round table where they do a Q & A at botcon.

1c- Various club members who paid the $330 for a stay at home convention gift set of toys. asked on the elite TFCC club board,why they had to pay $330 but get no perks like the attending members got. The TFCC/FUN PUB GAVE A EXTREMLY RUDE & OBNOXIOUS ANSWER,TELLING THEM,THEY HELP PAY FOR THE CONVENTION EXPENSES THAT THEY DON'T ATTEND.

2- The last day & 1/2 of the botcon convention. TFCC/Fun pub caters to all the botcon scalpers by having them buy up as many gift sets,as many bag sets & as many add-on toys as they can afford to buy.

3- TFCC/Fun pub has more than double prices for it's convention toys compared to the 3H prices.

4- TFCC/Funpub has all these forced rules in order to buy their concvention or club toys. you have to buy a whole entire 5 or 6 set of convention toys regardless if you only like one figure in the set. In order to buy the add-on/souvenir convention toys you must first buy the gift set. the recent subsciption club toys,members must buy the whole year worth of toys,they can't pick & choose to buy one or a few they like.

5-TFCC/Fun pub claims the club membership toy is free,but members pay $40 for it by paying $40 in yearly club dues.

6-That TFCC club magazine is a joke,members get 6 issues per year. the magazine itself is only 10 pages counting the front & back cover. the first five pages consist of TFCC wasting time,with fan-wank made up bio's & fan members praise. the last 4 pages consist of a comic that reads like it was written by a kid in second grade,the art isn't that great. the front & back covers seem like a waste as nothing worthwhile appears on them.

7- The TFCC/Fun pub message board that is only available to elite members that pay the $40 membership fees. the message forum is full of trolls & idiots that do more trolling,act mean spirited & complaining than anything else. most members there advertise their botcon scalpers & so forth.

8- In order to buy the TFCC/fun pub botcon convention toys or club toys or anything from the site,TFCC forces everyone to first pay for their $40 yearly membership dues.

9- TFCC/Fun pub is chock full of elite members favorites who get perks/advanced in\fo/stuff from TFCC/Fun pub. the popular on-line TF fans get their club magazine delivered weeks before the commoners. the elite TF members get advanced info revealed to them while the regular fans are kept in the closet. In other words TFCC/Fun pub isn't good at keeping disclosed Hasbro secrets,they have a tight nit group of elite members that get all the disclosed hasbro secrets revealed to them. these perks are given to elite TF fans who moderate the TFCC club message forum,the botcon convention volunteers,the TFCC/Botcon hired Crew. Some perks are given to moderators/board owners of other TF boards by letting them get the club magazine a month before the rest,so they can advertrise interest to the commoners fans.

SORRY WITH ALL THIS I MENTIONED ABOVE,I DON'T NEED TO GIVE TFCC/FUN PUB MONEY TO BE TREATED INFERIOR TO OTHER TF FANS. I DON'T NEED TO GIVE MONEY TO ANYONE THAT TREATS ME LIKE A COMMONER & PUT STRICT RULES IN PLACE FOR ME TO FOLLOW. RULES THAT DON'T EXIST FOR THE ELITES/FAVORITES. I DON'T NEED TO BE FORCED TO PAY FOR EVERYTHING WHEN I JUST WANT ONE TOY FROM THE CONVENTION OR CLUB. I DON'T LIKE PAYING MY FAIR SHARE ONLY TO GET MY MAGAZINE A MONTH PLUS AFTER THE ELITES/FAVORITES. I DON'T LIKE PAYING MY FAIR SHARE THEN GETTING LEFT OUT ON THE SECRET INFO WHILE THE ELITES GET THIS INFO & BRAG THEY KNOW ABOUT IT IN MINE & OTHERS COMMONERS FACES. I REFUSE TO HANG OUT WITH TROLLS,MEAN FANS ON A SO CALLED ELITE MESSAGE GROUP.

Last minute entry: TFCC/Fun pub when they select all those botcon convention themed toys & club toys. They don't select the themes/characters based on what the majority of world wide TF fans want. TFCC has a elite cabinet of fans/workers that sit down & select themes/characters based off their die hard wish list. 20 elite fans/workers get to decide the themes/characters.

I suspect hasbro hates TFCC/Fun pub Because hasbro reveals less & less newer TF toys/media info with every passing year at the botcon's conventions. Hasbro's presence is less & less each year compared to when 3H held the liscense.

Hasbro reveals more newer TF toys/media info at the February toy fair in manhattan,SDCC & NYCC.

[Onslaught Six]

I suspect hasbro hates TFCC/Fun pub Because hasbro reveals less & less newer TF toys/media info with every passing year at the botcon's conventions. Hasbro's presence is less & less each year compared to when 3H held the liscense.

Hasbro reveals more newer TF toys/media info at the February toy fair in manhattan,SDCC & NYCC.

When 3H had the license to do Botcon, Hasbro didn't reveal that much either, for one thing, and for two--there was a lot less to reveal then. At Botcon 2002, all we got to see were some prototypes of the FIRST WAVE of Armada, which was starting to hit stores around then!

Pre-RID and UT, the TF toylines were a lot smaller. You could get away with showing off the entire 1997 assortment at Botcon because there were less than 25 toys, and they would come out much more gradually during the year. Also, back then, SDCC and NYCC weren't as big as they were then. Hasbro always shows a bunch of shit at Toyfair because Toyfair isn't for fans--it's for media and prospective retailers. (In fact, Hasbro doesn't actually participate in Toyfair proper--they run their own separate media event on the same weekend. It was deemed a couple years ago that Hasbro and Mattel were "too big" to actually be a part of Toyfair anymore.)

Toyfair, Botcon, SDCC and NYCC are actually spaced just far enough apart from each other that we can regularly get new updates on figures that're coming. In fact, more often than not, SDCC is just a Botcon rehash with maybe one new wave of figures that probably weren't even done by Botcon.

[Shockwave]

I seem to recall stories of corruption from 3H that make TFCC look like saints. I don't remember the details, but Dom does and can remind us when he gets back.

But most of Deathy described is understandable. And it also describes a lot of my problems with the wiki. And really it's probably no coincidence that a lot of the head honchos at the Wiki are also in charge of stuff for TFCC.

[Tigermegatron]

I seem to recall stories of corruption from 3H that make TFCC look like saints. I don't remember the details, but Dom does and can remind us when he gets back.

From what I've read on the internet,I remember some details.

1- 3H or 2H,One year didn't have the funds or desire to do one of the botcon's,so they let Dennis Barger/men in black do a Botcon. I don't know if dennis paid something to the hartmans to get the honor to host a botcon convention or not. dennis upset Hasbro by revealing secret stuff & I think hasbro didn't show up at botcon that year & a few years after that. The men in black botcon exclusive was "Onyx Primal,which was a repaint based off the 1996 Beastwars basic sized Bat primal toy.

2- The hartman's were having money troubles & couldn't afford to host botcon anymore. The hartman's solution was to partner up with Glen Halit. Glen got selected because he was super rich & was like a sugar daddy.

3- At some point the hartman's & glen Halit,combined their last named & called themselves 3H.

4- As the years went by,Glen began to take more control of botcon. he claimed he put up all the money & made all the deals. Glen claimed the hartman's were lazy. The hartman's claimed Glen was a ruthless business man that bullied the hartman's out of botcon's convention ownership.

5- Glen presented the hartman's with a paper & forced them to sign it. the paper read something like the hartman's turned over botcon to glen.

6- Glen ran botcon for a few years but was forced to change it to "OTFCC". The hartman's didn't want glen to use their self created botcon themed name.

7- Glen lost major points in the fandom his last botcon hosted year when almost all the botcon convention toys were late & were absent from the convention. attendees got vouchers or were told it's comming in their home mail box. glen lost tons of money because he had to pay all this shipping to buyers houses.

8- At some Hasbro got involved bcause the hartman's brothers went crying to hasbro how glen forced them to sign a paper & stole their convention. Hasbro further gort involved because they knew glen hailt was a scum bag & ruthless guy.

8a- my fan theory is that hasbro set glen up for the downfall by delaying the convention toys that year. so hasbro would have a legal right to pull the botcon liscense from glen halit & give it to someone else.

9- After glen got his botcon liscense revoked. Hasbro put the botcon liscense up for the highest bidder. Hasbro chose Fun pub as the best candidate because they had experience doing the joe con & worked with hasbro on that.

But most of Deathy described is understandable. And it also describes a lot of my problems with the wiki. And really it's probably no coincidence that a lot of the head honchos at the Wiki are also in charge of stuff for TFCC.

1- The owner of fun pub is lazy,so fun pub & hasbro hired a group of TF fans that were involved with previous botcons/OTFCC. Other fans who were trolls/favotites among the fandom got selected by troll leaders.

[Tigermegatron]

At some point in the near future,I seriously think hasbro is gonna cancel the Fun pub liscense to host botcon & run the TFCC Club.
Because hasbro barely makes a presence at botcon & reveals next to nothing new toys/media at botcon.

I just think hasbro is fed up with how Fun Pub turned botcon & the club into a scalper invited party.

[Dominic]

Hey. I am logging in to test my Network Forensics skills, and I got a text from Prowl about the "best/worst" thread.

The 3H scandal as I understood it:

Hallit and the Hartmans worked together from 1997 to 2002. Hallit brought energy to the Hartman's ideas. (All 3 were fans.) BotCon was recognized by Hasbro in 1994, and the Hartmans subcontracted the convention to several parties over the years, including "Men in Black". (There was nothing under-handed about this.)

In 2002, Hallit pulled a fast one. Acting in his capacity as an organizer for 3H, he approached Hasbro and several other license holders with big plans for the convention and the merchandise. This was *technically* legal. But, he did this without mentioning anything to the Hartman brothers, which makes it a bit under-handed. The long and short is that he put the company in a position where it had to deliver a huge amount of merchandise and media....or else.

The became apparent in the final hours of BotCon 2002, when Hallit announced some of these plans during the organizer panel, to the apparent shock of both Hartmans. A few weeks later, Hallit called them up to his place in NY. (The Hartmans lived in Indiana, so the trip was considerable.) He told them his plans, and "gave" them an out. If they did not want to play by his rules, they could quit the company. (Again, in technical terms, this was legal. But, it was *really* sleazy.) The Hartmans, while unhappy to give up on a company that they had founded and helped to build over the better part of a decade, did the sensible thing and got the hell out of dodge. (Karl was reportedly tearful about this decision.)

The following year, in 2003, things started to go south for the renamed convention. (One of the Hartmans, I forget which, owned the name "BotCon", which he has since granted to Brian Savage/Master Collector.) Not only did Hallit fail to pay for production of, (and thus fail to deliver at the show), a significant number of exclusives, he did not even pay for the venue. This lead to hilarity at BC04, the last of Hallit's BotCon.



Dom
-notes that the memory capture has stopped.

[BWprowl]

And we've got our first look at the first toy in the set, up on the BotCon main page: Hoist, from Generations Kup.

It's a'ight, I guess. I mean, Generations Kup is a good mold, and the toy looks nice in these colors, the maroon and black with the stripes an' all (the stripes actually showing up better here than they did on original MW Hoist's robot mode), but I'm not sure it's the greatest mold in the world to use for MW Hoist. It's not even close to a 'tow truck' of any sort, and doesn't really recreate the boxy feel the original had. The general shape of the robot mode is pretty close, I just wish the whole package swung a bit closer.

Ah well, Hoist wasn't really the make-or-break for me on this set anyway (as if I'm actually going to buy it at all!). I'll wait to see what they do for Megaplex.

[Tigermegatron]

I'll wait to see what they do for Megaplex.

My guess is Botcon 2013 MW Megatron & MW Megaplex will both be using the HFTD Voyager sized Mindwipe toy mold. Due to megatron having a similar robot & alt mode design currently in the IDW TF 2013 comics.

[Shockwave]

For Megaplex, my money's on the Nerf gun. Heck, earlier this year I thought of keeping Classics Megs next to Henkei for that very same reason. It's not insane. really.

[Tigermegatron]

For Megaplex, my money's on the Nerf gun. Heck, earlier this year I thought of keeping Classics Megs next to Henkei for that very same reason. It's not insane. really.

With all the recent gun violence,killings done by guns recently & those Anti-guns laws debates/rules,I seriously doubt Hasbro will be re-releasing the nerf gun megatron toy in stores nor as a botcon club/convention toy.