Star Trek

[andersonh1]

I decided to use the Spoiler space tags below because you said you didn't see the movie yet & I didn't want to spoil anything for you.

I appreciate that, but I have seen the movie in the theater, I just haven't bought the DVD for home viewing yet. I keep meaning to.

I have both positive & negative mixed emotions about this newer Trek film. I don't like how they basically did a time travel erase where some stuff got re-written. I'm dure Gene Roddenberry would have never approved this had he been alive. I'm sure he's rolling over in his grave right now.

I have mixed feelings about the movie myself, some of which mirror yours, though overall I did enjoy it. I think the time travel device they used to reboot the movie is one of the positives, honestly. They don't try to pretend that 40 years of Trek never happened, and indeed the whole motivation for Nero's actions comes from things that happened in the original continuity. Old Spock shows up from that timeline as well, and at one point relates to Kirk some of the differences. Honestly, I think the writers did about as well as they could have in both respecting what came before while also starting over so they could (hopefully) tell some new stories as well.

I found it extremely cheesy/fan fank & just lame-o that this 2009 newer star trek movie borrowed heavily from the "un-liscensed fan created movies called " of gods & men." stuff that got borrowed was Uhurra having a realationship with spock. time travel interference effecting present time. Kirk being at the center of the time travel shifted events & the list goes on.

There's time travel all through Trek, so I'm not all that bothered by another use of it considering why the writers took the approach they did. Uhura flirts a bit with Spock in Charlie X and maybe one or two other episodes, so the writers took that and ran with it. It doesn't bother me one way or the other, honestly. It all depends on the writing and how the characters are treated, and so far it's been decent if nothing terribly compelling.

I personally think this time travel partial erase of events for the 2009 Trek movie is a huge INSULT to the established devoted Trek fans from decades ago. It just sends a wrong fandom message from the creators/writters that their invested time does't matter because stuff they knew got a partial erase.

I've been watching Trek since I was a kid in the 70s, and I don't feel insulted. I do think the original show and actors are better in just about every way than the rebooted movie and actors, but that's just personal preference. And it may not be entirely fair since we have 79 episodes and seven movies (counting Generations) with the original cast, while we've only got one with the new cast.

It's hit and miss, really. Of all the new actors, Karl Urban does the best job in capturing the attitudes and essence of DeForest Kelley's portrayal of McCoy. Kirk is a completely different character, and Pine is nothing like Shatner. Quinto does a decent job as Spock, probably because he had Nimoy coaching him, though I miss Nimoy's baritone. It helps give the character more gravitas. The modern Uhura has the required equality with the men and higher billing than she did in the past, but Zoe Saldana lacks the charm that Nichelle Nichols had in spades. Chekov and Sulu honestly need more time to develop to really get a handle on them, but again I prefer the original actors for both. The only character that really has been done badly is Scotty. He's become the comic relief character, something Scotty certainly was not in the old series. All the characters had moments of humor or silliness, but Scotty was not a joke. In the new Star Trek, he is, and I don't care for that approach at all.

All that being said, different actors will take a different approach to the characters, and they should. I just feel that some of the approaches work better than others, and I prefer the originals. The biggest problem with Star Trek are the massive plot contrivances where Kirk gets marooned on Delta Vega in almost the exact same spot as Old Spock, and then both are only a few miles from the Federation station where Scotty is assigned. It shatters the suspension of disbelief. And then of course they beam back to the Enterprise, which is traveling at warp and has been for hours? Transporters have a range of hundreds of light years? I don't think so. That particular section of the film badly needed some rewriting to iron out those problems.

[Onslaught Six]

On the flip side, I loved Scotty, because I love Simon Pegg. Dude makes everything he's in better. (Go watch the latest Mission Impossible movie! He's great in it. The whole thing is great.)

[Sparky Prime]

and indeed the whole motivation for Nero's actions comes from things that happened in the original continuity.

I have to say Nero's motivation is something that bothers me about the movie... Nero and his crew finds out they time traveled nearly 150 years into the past from Captain Robau, so they know Romulas is still around in this timeline. But then they wait around 25 years for their era's Spock to arrive to steal the Red Matter just to get revenge on him and the Federation? Why? They have everything they need to prevent their planet from being destroyed in the first place. And they have no idea what impact destroying the Federation might have on the future they knew. It's a pretty stupid move when you think about it... And they had 25 years to sit around thinking about it!

The biggest problem with Star Trek are the massive plot contrivances where Kirk gets marooned on Delta Vega in almost the exact same spot as Old Spock, and then both are only a few miles from the Federation station where Scotty is assigned. It shatters the suspension of disbelief. And then of course they beam back to the Enterprise, which is traveling at warp and has been for hours? Transporters have a range of hundreds of light years? I don't think so. That particular section of the film badly needed some rewriting to iron out those problems.

Yeah, that's certainly another problem with the film. I think the writers needed to do some more research into the background of Star Trek given some of the errors they had like this.

[Shockwave]

Holy crap those are some big plot holes. How did I miss that? Especially the time travel thing. But the real thing that did it for me is Kirk getting promoted from cadet to captain instantly. I don't care how good you are, no military organization does that. He might have been bumped up one rank for it, but not captain. Clearly the writers also should have consulted someone who's actually been in or around the military.

[Onslaught Six]

I have to say Nero's motivation is something that bothers me about the movie... Nero and his crew finds out they time traveled nearly 150 years into the past from Captain Robau, so they know Romulas is still around in this timeline. But then they wait around 25 years for their era's Spock to arrive to steal the Red Matter just to get revenge on him and the Federation? Why? They have everything they need to prevent their planet from being destroyed in the first place. And they have no idea what impact destroying the Federation might have on the future they knew. It's a pretty stupid move when you think about it... And they had 25 years to sit around thinking about it!

The biggest cop out to modern movie plot holes is "It was explained in a deleted scene," but...it was explained in a deleted scene.

Apparently Nero and his crew, at one point, get arrested by Space Police who put him away in Space Prison because he's a crazy man talking about how he's from the future and shit. Then he breaks out 25 years later when he finds out what's going on.

Or something like that.

[Sparky Prime]

No, the deleted scene was Klingon's raid and capture Nero's ship just after the Kelvin had disabled it, and send the crew to prison where they eventually break out just in time to capture future Spock. It still really doesn't explain or add anything to the movie.

[andersonh1]

No, the deleted scene was Klingon's raid and capture Nero's ship just after the Kelvin had disabled it, and send the crew to prison where they eventually break out just in time to capture future Spock. It still really doesn't explain or add anything to the movie.

They lock them up in Rura Penthe, right? Same place Kirk was sent in ST6. Still, it seems odd that the Klingons wouldn't have stripped down Nero's ship and used the science behind it to upgrade their fleet, if they had it for a quarter century.

Star Trek is a fluffy action movie... don't think about it too much, and it's a lot of fun. Start to think about the logic of the plot and characters, and things start to fall apart a bit.

[Sparky Prime]

They lock them up in Rura Penthe, right? Same place Kirk was sent in ST6. Still, it seems odd that the Klingons wouldn't have stripped down Nero's ship and used the science behind it to upgrade their fleet, if they had it for a quarter century.

Yeah, I think it was meant to be Rura Penthe. And Surprised Nero's ship was still in one piece after 25 years. Like you, would have thought the Klingon's would have taken it apart to study and learn from the future tech. Instead they apparently fixed it up and had it ready for Nero's crew to steal it back...

Star Trek is a fluffy action movie... don't think about it too much, and it's a lot of fun. Start to think about the logic of the plot and characters, and things start to fall apart a bit.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the film for what it was. But it could have been so much better, and these were some pretty big problems with the plot.

[andersonh1]

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the film for what it was. But it could have been so much better, and these were some pretty big problems with the plot.

Same here. I'm hoping they've ironed a lot of those plotting issues out for "Into Darkness".

[andersonh1]

The biggest cop out to modern movie plot holes is "It was explained in a deleted scene," but...it was explained in a deleted scene.

Apparently Nero and his crew, at one point, get arrested by Space Police who put him away in Space Prison because he's a crazy man talking about how he's from the future and shit. Then he breaks out 25 years later when he finds out what's going on.

Or something like that.

Finally bought the movie yesterday and watched about half of it last night. And in the finished cut, it really is just a case of Nero arriving in the past 25 years before old Spock does, and apparently all he and his crew do is wait for Spock to arrive so they can capture him and make him watch as Vulcan is destroyed. There's still a reference in the film to 47 Klingon ships being destroyed by a Romulan ship, but apart from Nero's scars and damaged ear (which he doesn't have in the first scene) there's no real mention of Rura Penthe.

Nero's Lieutenant: What are we going to do, just wait here until Spock arrives?
Nero: What else have we been doing for the past 25 years?

Sparky Prime is right, it's hard to believe that at some point in that quarter century that Nero wouldn't have a change of heart or do something to prevent Romulus from being destroyed in the future, but apparently he and his crew just hang out and wait.