First off, I don't like having to come in here as the moderator. The tone in this thread is awful, ugly, and unpleasant; the personal attacks on one of our members is unprecedented and unwelcome. We can have a grown-up discussion here without resorting to being nasty to each other, whether or not we agree with the original poster's sentiments. If you don't like what someone has to say, you can either be an adult in your response, or you can simply not read it at all, both are reasonable choices within your power. We are a group, we are supposed to be above this, to welcome other ideas and have a spirited discussion comparing those ideas, not to just dump on each other -- please remember that, it'll help keep our group together and growing. We can talk about childish things without acting like jerky little children.
Tigermegatron wrote:The 2012 Botcon schedule is up,its a bust/awful/garbage.
http://www.botcon.com/BotCon2012/bc12schedule.cfm
Their seems to be too many non-sense live panels,like cartoon episodes script readings. autograph sessions,costume contest,fan art contest,customizing build a TF class,Hall of fame dinner,etc,,, for my taste. ALL I CARE ABOUT IS THE HASBRO LIVE TF TOY REVEAL/NEWS OFFICIAL PANEL.
Sadly the Hasbro TF toy panel is only on Saturday & it only last 50 minutes. 50 minutes isn't enough time as the hasbro crew spends the first 15 to 20 minutes making jokes & dragging their feet showing TF toys & news. the panel always ends 10 minutes early with more hasbro employees making jokes & running out the door.
un-like previous botcon convention years,Their is no Sunday Hasbro TF toy live official panel. So my guess is botcon 2012 will be a bust as far as Hasbro showing off never before seen TF new molds & info.
For the past few years Botcon has been a bust as far as not showing that much newer un-seen TF toys,info & Pics. It seems like Hasbro prefers to show more newer TF toys,pics & info at SDCC,NYCC & NYC Toyfair in Manhattan.
Since I loathe/dis-like the IDW TF comics. the botcon 2012 IDW panels don't matter to me.
I remember a few years ago Hasbro had TF toy panels at Botcon on Friday,Saturday & Sunday.
It sure seems like Botcon wastes a lot of days like wednesday & Thursday catering to the Elite fans who spend hundreds/thousands of dollars on those GOLDEN ACCESS elite entrance tickets. these wednesday & thurday days seem wasted on fans catering to fans with ZERO Official panels going on.
Since i'm not a TFCC club member & loathe the TFCC club. those 3 to 8 TFCC panels they have going on at botcon 2012 is a pure waste for me. as I don't buy exspensive repaints & don't like their awful comic/magazine.
Their seems to be a wasted Animated live panel going on at this years botcon 2012 convention. this seems like a pure waste as animated ended 3 years ago. clearly no newer TF Animated toys nor Animated cartoon news will be revealed. as everything ended 3 years ago.
The Hall of Fame dinner seems like a joke. as none of the HOF toys get made into new mold MP or regular toys.
Lastly,i'm From New york. I'm use to going to toy & comic conventions in manhattan & new Jersey that open up at 8 am & close at around 11 PM. i'M NOT A FAN OF THE BANKER HOURS BOTCON HAS EACH DAY. Botcon opens it's doors at 10 am & closes them each day before 5 PM.
Although not as strongly, I felt the same way about Botcon '09 and '11 - a big surprise at the limited panel presence of Hasbro and limited hours. Comic-Con runs 10 to 6pm for daytime hours though, and it's the largest convention of its kind, so for Botcon to have similar hours isn't surprising. That said, Comic-Con has a ton of evening programming, while Botcon has limited evening programming considerably - in '09 there was some but in '11 there really wasn't, aside from the "dinner". And there are the 2 non-convention days at the beginning, I didn't get that at all, but it saves on hall rental (a big portion of any convention's funds goes to the venue).
Hasbro only bothering to do 1 panel, and it's a shorty again, is grotesque since it's their brand and this year they're making demands on what can and cannot be sold at the convention. Their Q&As are not as bad as you make them out, but they really cram through the slideshow to get there, and then there's a couple fans who ask half a dozen questions each and they're all very specific, so it slows things down considerably. Last year's Botcon the Sunday Hasbro panel was a ripoff though, I ended up walking out on it because it had nothing to do with Toys, it was Archer going on about his new role as the brand's non-toy storyline development VP, so really '11 also only had 1 Hasbro toy panel ('09's Sunday Hasbro panel was cut short for a visit from Tyrese).
That said, the G1 writers and the G1 actors panels, the Animated panels, the video game panels, the fan art contest tables, those were all awesome at Botcon '09 and '11, but I think we had more of those talent folks at those cons because they were in the LA area. This year's panels definitely look thinner, which is a shame, and Sunday seems to be guest reuse day, although Jagex and Activision should prove to be good panels for video games.
BWprowl wrote: A nice, sit-down dinner where I could argue IN PERSON with people about why Sky-Byte is awesome?
Ha ha, no. Tell that to the people who spent all that money to go to the con and got popcorn for dinner in Pasadena.
Whattayou care about toy reveals that much for anyway, TiggerMigs? As I understand, you almost exclusively gravitate towards Leader Class/Masterpiece scale figures, and Hasbro's been dialing down their use of those classes for some time now. There *might* be a new Leader Class TFPrime toy or two revealed (Optimus and Megatron? Probably! We honestly likely already know, but I'm too ambivalent about TFPrime to check/care!), but we already know the next Masterpiece (Sideswipe), so the only other thing Hasbro could do there would be to announce their intention to release MP-10 Prime Again and MP-11 Starscream Again. Whoop de doo. And you sure won't be hearing about any of your precious third-party stuff at a Hasbro toy panel.
Tigermegatron wrote:"I dis-like/loathe just about everything I can list about the convention."
I gotta wonder, honestly, why are you even going to BotCon if you think the exclusives are stupid/the panels are pointless/the dinner and HOF are a joke/everything sucks? Doesn't it cost like over a grand to go to BotCon these days? You're willing to put up with all that, just for the Hasbro toy panel, all to, what, see some new toys (which you probably won't even like) a couple hours before the rest of the world? You're clearly a more dedicated, ah, fan than I am.
Damn, now I know why our forums aren't growing anymore, that's a really messed up attitude. You're calling out someone else for not having the same attitude as you about an expensive Transformers-related thing? That's bullcrap. Negative or not, I don't see why it's any problem for any of us, he's not threatening to shit on your ancestors or break your figures.
Dominic wrote:The dinner is....no pun intended, a monkey in a tux.
There are different classifications of conventions, ranging from glorified bazaar (BotCon) up to meetings of professionals and high rollers (PAX is on the lower end of this, but you get the idea). The higher end cons typically have dinners and other networking events. And, because BotCon is a totally real convention, they have to have a dinner as well.
But, the dinner does have exclusives, so the $75 bucks is a bit easier to justify. And, you get a free meal for it.
Botcon
is a glorified bazaar, I never really thought about it in those terms before but you are quite right.
As for the exclusives, this is a Botcon paradox - nobody likes scalpers, yet unless you have a special kind of boner for those exact figures, the entire point of Botcon exclusives is to be sold online to recoup your losses in paying to go to Botcon which only cost so much because you were paying for the figures which you were then selling to go to Botcon... you see my point?
Friday afternoon's "private sales room experience" sounds either like something a kid who just passed marketing 101 would come up with or something I would expect to see at a brothel supply maker's convention.
I sort of understand it from the perspective of Botcon being the "glorified bazaar" you mentioned. When the room fills up with locals who paid $20 at the door to paw figures, some stuff sells through fast, and even when it doesn't the room can get very full very fast. It is creepy though.
The exclusive panels for fan club members are a pretty clear advertisement for the club. And, yeah, that is pretty crass. (Hey, you spent money to be at the convention, now here is an add for all the other stuff we sell over the rest of the year.)
Agreed, except for the customizing classes, although I've never attended so I can only speak to what I've been told by others about them, but the idea seems solid.
The comic and cartoon panels are the sort of things that conventions were initially built around. Honestly, if you are not going to these, there is no reason to bother going to the convention. (Before going to a larger show, I generally look at what the panels are going to be.
That turns out to be super true, but I'd argue that this year's Botcon has less to offer for both, there's less of that weird stuff, and less of "here's what we're doing next" about it. There isn't even a damned TF:Prime panel, that's a fairly awful statement to make about what they think of the brand and its fans.
The Hasbro panel is, in theory, a good chance for Q and A. But, that assumes that Hasbro wants to answer questions. More likely, it is just a chance to hear about toys that will be, or possibly have been, discussed at length on the internet.
Hasbro has been modestly forthcoming at Botcon Q&As, it's a different atmosphere from the Comic-Con Q&As (not that they're not forthcoming there, just that SDCC ones are not as fan-centric IMO) but 50 minutes is WAY too little for a convention built around their brand. At SDCC '08 I believe, Hasbro went an hour 45, so long into conversations with fans that I actually couldn't finish writing them all up as I had to cover another panel on the other side of the hall - but they certainly hadn't run out of questions by the time I left, people are very passionate about the brand and these types of conventions are the only outlets to get a face-to-face reaction from the powers that be. And Transformers is now a HUGE brand, multifaceted covering all sorts of expressions not to mention 2 mainlines, a dedicated kids line, and several other collector-themed expressions (botshots, licensed TFs, statues, etc.,) - there's no way 1 panel should even pretend to cover all the thinking that goes into that, especially not one that's a mere 50 minutes.
BWprowl wrote:Dominic wrote:Bumfuck Pennsylvania
I would like to make a weekend trip there. "I am off to Bumfuck with my friends from the forums." "Just another wild Bumfuck weekend." Hehehehehe, bum fuck.
Isn't 'Bumfuck, State' just a general colloquialism that means 'middle of nowhere'? Dom, I am genuinely surprised you have never heard this before.
Dom has a very messed up brain, he doesn't want to face the perversions head-on so it comes out of his ears like that.
Tigermegatron wrote:I do view all the fan un-officialn panels as a pure waste of time.
While it's not your or my cup of tea, the fact that those fans gather big money and PAY for that panel time suggests that they are not a waste of time, someone is passionate about them.
If I ever went to a Botcon convention. I'd bring a few list pages of all my TF related toy ideas & media ideas & hand them out politely to the hasbro & takara toy designers.
They do this on the exhibit hall floor, but you really have to focus what you want to show/say/do with this or you risk alienating yourself from them while they glaze over. A great place to do this though is SDCC because there the team is just a another small fish in a big pond (despite Hasbro having the largest booth presence of any organization in the exhibit hall).
BWprowl wrote:Lolwut? I just got the most fantastic image in my head, of all these TF fans standing around with Stephen Blum, Susan Blu, Scott McNeil, and Peter Cullen, all dressed in tuxedos, monacles, and top hats (save for McNeil and Cullen who are naturally wearing cowboy hats), sipping glasses of champaign and speaking derisively in erudite, upscale, New Yorker accents. Damn, now I *really* want to go to BotCon.
It's more casual, but you do run into them on the exhibit hall floor either at a booth or going to or from something, and they're generally really nice if you don't try to bore them to death or steal too much of their time.
Onslaught Six wrote:Don't be foolish, Prowl. Women are fickle and sometimes undesirable mistresses. (We also probably have pretty high standards for mental competance and personality. I get the feeling Tigger isn't too concerned with either of those.)
Wow, really dude? On a Transformers toy forum you're espousing that views on da bitches? Talk about modern day cliches from the internet troll handbook. Think about the person who posts on a TF forum and complains about the OPPOSITE gender being a mess. Women are sometimes fickle and undesirable, guess who else is: hint, it's men.
And I dunno why you think any of us have the right to shit on someone else's potential choices for women, that's just fucked up and I know you have it in you to not pull that shit. Seems like you and Prowl are creating an atmosphere of dickery just because you don't like TM's tone.
BWprowl wrote:Onslaught Six wrote:Don't be foolish, Prowl. Women are fickle and sometimes undesirable mistresses. (We also probably have pretty high standards for mental competance and personality. I get the feeling Tigger isn't too concerned with either of those.)
Bullshit. I'm dressing nice when I'm out and about, holding down a solid career, living in the nice part of town, I'm going on my fifth single, sexless year here, I just mentioned that I can't even hook up at a ferkin' anime convention, and you're telling me Tiger"I threw a tantrum trying to blackmail Target employees into selling me a toy I didn't even like and I post on a board with seven people about my desire for duck and turtle boobies"megatron is enjoying the benefits of companionship and eating out at fancy restaurants with this girlfriend? Fuck that, I'm tossing all my toys in a bin when I get home and going out to a goddamn bar or something. I'm done.
Aside from the dickery towards TM, it is an interesting point besides that. Sell your toys though, don't just trash them, gotta have coin to get women - even non-greedy women don't want to eat out of a garbage can.
Shockwave wrote:I totally get what Prowl is saying about going to conventions here in CA. It sucks. And I'm in Sacramento, the fucking state's capital! And there ain't shit that goes on here. Or even in San Francisco which is only a couple hours away. Incidently Prowl, if you ever wanna go to a con here in Sac, lemme know, I got a place big enough to put you up.
To be fair, Sacramento is a cow town in the middle of nothingsville. Take a trip to SDCC in July (not this one, it's sold out). And as for San Fran, what about Wondercon next year when it returns to San Fran, or APE - the Alternative Press Expo? Or to Vegas for CES? There's PLENTY going on, just gotta expect it's not going to be in Sacramento... or Stockton, or Fresno, or Bakersfield. That's why they built the 5, so that you could get away from Sacramento.
"Escape... to Redding!"
And Deathy, do you really honestly believe for one moment that Hasbro has any interest in seeing your ideas? Cause I seriously doubt it. The best you could hope for would be to make a custom of some of your ideas and to enter them into the customizing contest, at least then you'd get some fan recognition out of it. But I garuantee you Hasbro does not want and is not going to listen to ideas from fans.
WTF? Why is this gang-up-on-TM-day? My buddy Tycho has similar ideas to TM and every year he bothers the TF team at Comic-Con, EVERY SINGLE YEAR, for hours, and they actually listen and try to explain to him why not everything he says is feasible (read: LC Blackout, HA ROTF Constructicons). But they do listen and interact with fans from all walks because they know those folks are representative of a larger group like them. I spent a few minutes with Hasbro last year at Botcon talking about ideas, and listening to them talk to other fans about ideas, the majority aren't assholes who treat us like peons. (That doesn't mean they just blindly do what we ask, but they do listen and consider.)
And besides, if you have no interest in celebrating the hobby's history with fellow fans then why the fuck would you go? THAT'S the whole point of going to a convention! It's not about the stuff, it's about the people. I mean if everyone only went just to try to shove ideas for more toys based on G1 season 3 down Hasbro's throats I doubt there'd be a Botcon anymore.
For him it's about the new stuff, I don't see why that's so crazy. I'm sure if Hasbro held an event that was just yammering at the design team for $100 for 10 solid hours with a guaranteed individual one-on-one time of 30 minutes, that convention would be a hit, and Hasbro would do it just for the free marketing research (plus, the fans come up with ideas when these guys run low, they've said as much).
Tigermegatron wrote:bwprowl & Onslaught-six,I respect both of you & everyone here on the TF Views message forum. both of you were clearly out of line for mocking me that I have a girl friend. I've never mocked you guys on that level nor did I ever attempt to mock you two by mocking your mentality nor physical appearance. All I'm asking for is the same exact repect & dignity that I show everyone here on the TF Views site.
Onslaught-Six & BWProwl,both of you, crossed over another line by implying that my girl friend was un-desirable or not all their thus she's with me. please I never insulted your girl friend on-line. please show me & my girl friend the same exact respect & dignity that I show you.
I don't enjoy being made the class clown or village idiot. I do my best to try to treat everyone here on TF views with the proper respect,politeness & dignity. please return the favor & treat me with respect,politeness & dignity.
Good for you, thank you for taking the high road, well put.
Tigermegatron wrote:On the Botcon FAQ it says that the live panels are open to everyone,even those who pay the General admission $20 fee. I can almost guarantee that the fun pub crew isn't going to allow the General admittance people to take seats away from those who paid over $300 for those admittance packages. Since the General admittance people have to wait outside for two hours each day on saturday & sunday while the $300 package atendees get in two hours before. it's a given that those who pay the $300 will run to the panel seats & sit their the whole day or take turns with other $300 package people filling the seats.
While the entry line can be very big, there was not one single panel at either Botcon I've been to where the panel room was ever full, and they never did anything to keep the package people ahead of the day-ticket people.
Onslaught Six wrote:Panels don't work that way. You can't just sit in the room all day and take up space. Many conventions will mandate a room-clear either before or after a major panel in order to combat this, and many popular panels will line up for up to an hour before it, but usually not any more. (Exceptions to this are usually things like concerts. Which, by the way, why don't we get any cool concerts? Let's get Botch The Crab's band up there, fuck it. Or me!)
Botcon was a mix, most panels didn't do room sweep, others did I think based on who was paying for the panel (it could have also been a private-time/public-time crossover, or a day-programming/evening-programming change, I don't remember) - it didn't matter though, like I said, zero panels filled to capacity, at one point we got swept and walked right back in after a 5 minute wait in line for badge check. All Comic-Con panels are sit-all-day rooms, while Star Wars Celebration are all swept. The last Trek conventions I went to were mostly sit-all-day panels, although Creation Entertainment did exactly what TM was saying above where the package-purchasers got priority seating and day ticket people got shafted.
(I also think it's kind of bullshit that Friday is excluded for general audiences, but then, I think it's bullshit that Botcon apparently has no middle-of-the-road $40-50 option that includes admission for all the days, but not any of the perks like the exclusive toys. Even a small, 3000-5000 person convention like MAGFest charges $50 for a three-day walk-in, so that's acceptable. MAGFest curbs this by offering registration for $30 and then $40 depending on how early you register. Plus, if you get in on a group rate of 8 or more people registering at once, then you get each badge for $30.)
Totally, totally, totally agree! Even the amount of trouble I had to go through to get early press access (we were promised it from one arm of Hasbro, but not another) on Fridays was a challenge. I guess the idea is to give package buyers more of a feeling of value beyond just getting toys.
138 Scourge wrote:Anyhoo, I figure it like this: I'm not likely to go to BotCon. So I don't figure I have a reason to bitch about the panels at or costs of this thing I'm not going to. Because shit, why should they cater to the people who aren't going to the damn thing?
Because if they cater to outside views, they might convince those outsiders to come to the next show. Not bringing problems and concerns to TPTB's attention won't give them any food for thought -- the San Diego Comic Con has an entire panel at the end of the show specifically to listen to that sort of thing, and they often do take those concerns into consideration. Botcon is a TF news event, for every fan that goes, there are more who can't go but take part via the internet through reading news, talking to friends that went, etc., so it is a representative convention to the entire fanbase. Do I think they should do everything TM says? Absolutely not. Do I think that they could address those issues and change a few things to better accommodate fans like him? Definitely. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
BWprowl wrote:ITT we bitch about things completely irrelevent to us.
Man, why isn't vegetarian bacon better-tasting?! I'd never buy it anyway, but they should still make it taste the way I would prefer!
Actually, this is indicative of the flaw in your arguments. I didn't used to eat vegetarian food at all, now I do have vegetarian sausage patties almost every morning with my breakfast even though I'm still a total carnivore in general, it didn't used to taste or smell as good and now that it does, I eat it where I didn't before.
Yeah, they always say that the one best thing about Sacramento is that it's in the middle of everywhere so it's easy to leave Sacramento. Although with my current budget I'd be lucky to even afford a trip to SF much less anywhere else. I'd love to go to SDCC sometime but have never been able to afford it. 