We've got Hall of Fame voting going on up there

[JediTricks]

Thanks for the tiebuster votes, more are welcome of course, but we're up against the deadline so make them quick. I may send in the results late tonight instead of tomorrow afternoon, I don't know if being up against it is such a good idea, I wouldn't want our results to miss out. So, more tiebreaker votes, and more regular votes, are both welcome, but keep in mind that at some time in the next 18 hours, I'll be closing up this excitement, so if you're waiting for the last minute, we're there.

[JediTricks]

Sorry, misunderstood you.

Well, I would say "whatever screws the Beast Wars characters".

But, nobody is going to actually do that....

For us to use "whatever screws BW characters" would be identically wrong to other organizations pushing BW, I don't want to become less ethical simply to counter someone else's unethical choice.

Just ignore it JT, Dom forgets that he doesn't actually Beast Wars, what he really hates are Beast Wars FANS. Seriously Dom, stop punishing the franchise for the actions of the fanbase.

I know, but it's interesting to try to have a rational conversation about something irrational.

And yet, TFWiki (an equally "reputable" source--for the record, I hate them both) has not just a separate article for G1 Galvatron In General, but also Galvatron II!

As it is, the only way we'll ever know is if someone asks Hasbro. Don't you have that kind of clout? Can't you ask them?

I don't know anybody on the main TF team anymore, so without Q&A I can't get in touch with them directly. That said, I don't know why I didn't think of this before, but I can just ask Hunter to qualify the issue for this HOF vote! I should have done that at the start, but it slipped my mind. I just rattled off an email, probably won't get a reply today but hopefully we'll know tomorrow. I gave Hot Rod, Galvatron, Tankorr, and Dinobot II as examples and pointed out that there is a disparity in the way each alternate name is reflected in the characters.

Anyway, the TFwiki is a good example of what that portion of the fans thinks of the situation, so Galvatron gets a separate listing, while Dinobot II doesn't (although the TF Wikia site does have a separate one for him), but just because everyone in the group's saying the sky is red doesn't necessarily make it so.

See, that's the thing, Hot Rod and Rodimus are very clearly the same guy, whereas Galvatron has a subtle amount of confusion going on and in at least one continuity is a separate guy. I would also argue design elements and colours on this--there's no way, even with the thousands of Transformers who look kind of similar to each other, that you're going to see Hot Rod and Rodimus Prime together and 'not' think they're the same guy. Megatron and Galvatron might look sort of similar, but have enough visual differences that you could see the both of them and easily assume they aren't intended to be the same guy.

Yeah, but you put Rodimus next to Super Speedbreaker... um, what's his US name? Side Burn, whatever. You put them together and you could have the same result despite it not being the truth. And in later media such as... ugh... the UT, you have Megatron being upgraded into Galvatron-colors and wearing clear Galvs designs, yet not being technically called Galvatron.

Shockblast was only named as such because of Trademark BS, we all know that--Alternators Shockblast proves that, I'd say. Which just means Energon "Shockwave" is an alt-universe equivalent to G1 Shockwave. And as we've seen, these things are basically for Transformers characters 'across all continuities.' G1 Megatron is, for all intents and purposes, the same character as UT Megatron, Animated Megatron, Movie Megatron, and Prime Megatron...because they're all bigass dudes with lots of guns who are Decepticon supreme leaders (and in most cases, founders).

I brought up the Shockblast thing because it was part of a recent conversation about the character not being Shockwave in some folks' eyes.

UT Megatron wears himself as a weapon in Energon, and then in Cybertron he's almost entirely unrelated to his former self. Damn UT is annoying.

Dinobot...I never liked this whole BS "Dinobot II isn't actually Dinobot" thing. In fact, "Dinobot 2" is never said anywhere with the show, it's fanon crap. I don't know if they ever say TM2 Dinobot has the original's memories downloaded into him or not (Obviously they would be from a copy Megatron had before Dinobot turned on him, since Rattrap spends the entirety of Dark Glass trying to upload a more recent copy to Dinobot) and, if nothing else, in his final moments he definitely makes contact or some shit with his "former self" as evidenced by him turning on Megs at the end and yelling HONOOOUUURRRRR. And even then, "Dinobot II" is clearly meant to EVOKE Dinobot--he's got the same face and voice, and turns into (mostly) the same thing, and is...named Dinobot--which I think makes him fall under the same thing as Shockblast.

Dinobot / Dinobot II is a necessary distinction, TM2 Dinobot isn't the same character in the entertainment, he's an evil, twisted spark-clone within the SAME entertainment medium as the original character, so it's definitely more a valid argument than Shockwave / Shockblast who are not in the same media. But Dinobot II is also NOT just Dinobot, he also has elements of Rampage's spark in him as well, so if anything, it goes beyond Megatron / Galvatron and even Rhinox / Tannkor.

Now, here's the thing, you COULD make a case if, say, someone like Prowl or Mirage made it in. There've been lots of guys named Mirage and Prowl over the years who *aren't* really intended to be the same guy evocatively. Energon Prowl really doesn't have anything in common with G1 Prowl, for example--not in personality OR design. On the other hand, Hasbro might lump them in anyway as having the same name and being all, "Fuck it," because Energon Prowl is pretty damn unlikely to ever be nominated for anything other than "Most Forgettable."

No, I don't think those are viable arguments because they're not in the SAME media - you don't have G1 Prowl, Animated Prowl, and Energon Prowl show up in the same piece of entertainment. Then again, Hasbro played fast and loose with this by lumping movie, Prime, Animated, and whatever else characters into those HOF videos from the last 2 years.

[Dominic]

Prowl
Prowl
Mirage
Wheeljack

I am double counting Prowl to keep Beast Wars off the ballot this year.


Dom
-what do you call 3 dead furries?

[Shockwave]

Prowl
Prowl
Mirage
Wheeljack

I am double counting Prowl to keep Beast Wars off the ballot this year.


Dom
-what do you call 3 dead furries?

The problem here Dom is that posts like this are dangerously close to sound exactly like the obnoxious fans that killed BW for you in the first place.

Shockwave
-2 wrongs don't make a right. However, 2 wrongs squared, divided by the square root of pi DO make a right.

[JediTricks]

Prowl
Prowl
Mirage
Wheeljack

I am double counting Prowl to keep Beast Wars off the ballot this year.


Dom
-what do you call 3 dead furries?

That was a dick move, I held back sending in these results to give you a voice, and instead you not only make more work for me by trying to scam the rules - you may as well have voted for Erector. I could just void your votes, or give Rhinox either of your Prowl vote slots, but I'll assume that you find Rhinox to be your FOURTH OUT OF FOUR choice and count it as such.

Your childish little stunt is disrespectful to the rest of our group, but to leave it for the 11th hour when things are so important, that was seriously rude of you.

So, I'm going to change my vote in the main poll, changing my Tarantulas vote to Rhinox, thus breaking that tie by 1 point and making moot your childishness, I had already been on the fence about Rhinox vs Tarantulas, so there you have it, your actions have had the reverse consequences.

[BWprowl]

The problem here Dom is that posts like this are dangerously close to sound exactly like the obnoxious fans that killed BW for you in the first place.

This. I daresay an obnoxious anti-fan of something gets more grating than an obnoxious fan of something. Dom, I think you should talk to someone about these issues. Honestly, when your hatred for a series based on the fact that, uh, other people like it is actively causing you to create shill, self-sabotaging d-bag votes, it might be time to reevaluate how seriously you take your toy-collecting hobby.

Shockwave
-2 wrongs don't make a right. However, 2 wrongs squared, divided by the square root of pi DO make a right.

And three rights make a left!

[JediTricks]

Shockwave
-2 wrongs don't make a right. However, 2 wrongs squared, divided by the square root of pi DO make a right.

And three rights make a left!

I was thinking that one!

Hasbro's PR people didn't get back to me regarding Hot Rod / Rodimus, but he didn't end up making our top 5, so it's just academic right now.

Ok, so 4 and 5 are tied, Wheeljack and Mirage. Thanks to the tiebuster votes in this thread, we know that Wheeljack had a commanding preference over Mirage, which also confirms Wheeljack for the slot since in the main votes he had more votes, though they ultimately were the same value combined as Mirage's fewer votes. So here's our final list, all 26 characters we voted for:

1. Barricade
2. Rhinox
3. Prowl
4. Wheeljack (tied)
5. Mirage (tied)
6. Arcee (G1)
7. Sky-byte
8. Blackarachnia
9. Ravage
10. Devastator
11. Thundercracker
12. Ultra Magnus
13. Hot Rod/Rodimus Prime
14. Bludgeon
15. Sideways (Armada)
16. Unicron
17. Brawn
18. Galvatron
19. Skywarp
20. Jetfire
21. Sixshot
22. Jetstorm
23. Lockdown
24. Predaking
25. Tarantulas
26. Scourge (Cybertron)

[BWprowl]

Sweet, Barricade for the #1 slot! This makes me a happy panda.

Thanks for handling this, as usual, JT!

[Dominic]

Dude, bulleting is not that far out of order. I almost just voted "Prowl" and "Mirage", and left the other two blank.

My disdain for "Beast Wars" stems from several things.
-it brought some of the worst fans (including Synjo) in to the fandom.
-it is over rated as being "perfection" despite it having many flaws.
-and despite nothing good having come of the Beast era for over a decade.

I am also sick of seeing second stringers get in to the Hall of Fame because they were damned fur suits.

That said, I am glad to see Barricade in the top slot, even if I had other preferences.


Dom
-Bay uber Beast.

[Onslaught Six]

None of us have more of a reason to hate BW than 86. Just saiyan.