crazy customizing and creativity questions and discussion

[Gomess]

Well of course your hobby seems rational according to standards you yourself created. That's the nature of personal taste. Not a very deep examination of this "contradiction"; perhaps you could've more explictly compared some of your customs to some of my fanfic O WAIT YOU'VE NEVER READ ANY (and here we reach the issue of generalising, which is something every member and his mother has called you out on before).

Now, it may be crass of me to appeal to mass opinion (and what's wrong with a bit of crassness?), but the populace of TFViews have already made it clear they consider your hobby just as "weird and wasteful" (i.e. not at all) as mine. I really have nothing against your love of customising, so why the constant jabs at me enjoying fanfic? I thought we were over this after the Razorback debacle.

...And at least I don't need to spend money on paint and stuff for my hobby. =p

Gom
-Wanna lock horns with another English major, I'm right here! And I majored in English IN ENGLAND =o

[Onslaught Six]

I would rather hope, Dom, that you would actually use customizing to create figures you'd actually 'want to see.' I customized Tigertrack and Spinout because it was financially convenient for me to do so (I ended up with both Universe and Henkei Sunstreakers, preferring Henkei, and Deluxes were $7 at this point, so obtaining a second Sideswipe was easy) but I eventually swapped them back and traded away the figures because I flat out had no attachment to Tigertrack and Spinout as characters.

But I do customize, it's just usually limited more to GI Joe than to TF. (I feel like the scale and the ease of construction and stuff makes it, if nothing else, a really good entry point. And I've found that, when I'm actually patient and do take my time, I'm actually pretty decent at it!) I make GI Joe customs of characters that Hasbro hasn't made, often enough, or I make alternatives in cases where the real figure is prohibitively expensive. (I had a custom Grunt for years before I decided I was tracking down Hasbro's legit one. And then I proceeded to...swap his head onto Short-Fuze and give his webgear to another guy. Short-Fuze looks great in lighter green.) But I have no desire to make them only for the sake of filling in holes where Hasbro hasn't made them or is unlikely to. In fact, a good lot of my GI Joe toys have gone through a fanon renaming scheme lately. (ROC Jungle Ripcord became Bulletproof, an obscure early 90s Joe character who is...a black dude in jungle camo. Seemed pretty appropriate to me.)

I dunno what my point is other than I'd hope you customize simply to actually own figures you want, and not just to fill perceived gaps. I mean, if Hasbro made an official Tigertrack and Spinout, I might just skip them entirely.

EDIT: As an aside: A good portion of my music could probably be considered fanfic on some level. My recent song Dolphin is an adaptation of Johnny Mnemonic that steals samples from the film. And stylistically, it's majorly a mash-up bunch of references and callbacks to other artists I like. My music could effectively be called Skinny Puppy fanfic.

[Dominic]

Now, it may be crass of me to appeal to mass opinion (and what's wrong with a bit of crassness?), but the populace of TFViews have already made it clear they consider your hobby just as "weird and wasteful" (i.e. not at all) as mine. I really have nothing against your love of customising, so why the constant jabs at me enjoying fanfic? I thought we were over this after the Razorback debacle.

It is a question of how far removed from the hobby the activity is. At a certain point, if I cannot enjoy the hobby as it is, I have ask why I bother.

would rather hope, Dom, that you would actually use customizing to create figures you'd actually 'want to see.'

Of course. How much I like a mould is predictive of how many customs I will make from it, and how hard I will look for predent of some kind.

I mean, seriously, do you think I would think about making customs for a mould that I did not like. The only reason that RiD Daytonus came to mind is because I really like the new Wheeljack/Tracks figure, but would rather not make Slicer. Along similar lines, I am not a fan of TFU Powerglide, so I am not exactly burning to customize that mould. (Of course, a friend of mine came up with a good idea for that mould, so if I find one....)

In fact, a good lot of my GI Joe toys have gone through a fanon renaming scheme lately.

I thought you were not a fan of "re-purposing".

I mean, if Hasbro made an official Tigertrack and Spinout, I might just skip them entirely.

I would buy both. Then, I would reverse my customizing, (at least for Sunstreaker, Sideswipe's paint has been altered a bit). And, then, I would buy an extra Spinout...and make Deadend ala "Alternators".

(I feel like the scale and the ease of construction and stuff makes it, if nothing else, a really good entry point. And I've found that, when I'm actually patient and do take my time, I'm actually pretty decent at it!)

I never developed the level of comfort of proficienty with the 25A figures that I had with the o-ring figures. (Not that I am mourning the end of o-rings...)

And at least I don't need to spend money on paint and stuff for my hobby. =p

Yeah, it does get expensive.

But, I have DeepCover. And, ClampDown. And G2 Grimlock, and G2 coloured Beachcomber.....


Dom
-gonna get crackin' on some Autotroopers soonishly.

[Gomess]

It is a question of how far removed from the hobby the activity is. At a certain point, if I cannot enjoy the hobby as it is, I have ask why I bother.

We've been over this before too. You have a *very* prescriptive notion of what "hobby" is, and I don't. It's almost like you're just confused by the notion of fanfic. That's fine. But it's no excuse to go implying another person's hobby is pointless.

[Dominic]

The way I see it, the further the creativity is removed from the source, the less reason there is to even have whatever connectino there may be. Ultimately, it helps neither the original nor the new venture.

For example, along with the TF RPG that I am working on, (and I am considering rules for Minicons right now, even if I have not posted much of anything lately), I also have a very rough draft of an straight forward action game.

Granted, I could call it, uh......"GI Joe" or "The Corps!", (as it would use military imagery), the mechanics and tone of the game are so far removed from either that there would be no point in me even pretending that they have a connection beyond some vague military imagery. (If I decided to customize figures of characters from that game, I would likely use Joes or Lenard product. But, even so, they would be so altered that it would not matter.) Of course, given how rought it is, I could also call it "Marvel Superheroes Mercenary Attack Squad" and it would make as much sense. But, you get the idea.

The less the activity has to do with a franchise, the less reason there is to link the two.


Dom
-also does not want to just shit on Hasbro or nobody unless they deserve it.

[Gomess]

Let's just have Criswell predict the rest of this debate for both of us to save space:

"But IDW shit on Hasbro's IP too, and you bought that."
"But they're official."
"Well, it's still douchey to call someone hobby's 'pointless'."
"But they're official."
*Leaves board for a month*

Phew!

[Onslaught Six]

In fact, a good lot of my GI Joe toys have gone through a fanon renaming scheme lately.

I thought you were not a fan of "re-purposing".

When it's being done officially? Of course I'm not. I don't like that Cybertron Armorhide has been abandoned in favour of being Shattered Glass Huffer or whatever. I have no problem with Walky or M Sipher or someone calling 'their own' toy that, because that's fanon. It's when those things become canon that I get pissed.

Also, this is my way of consolidating the fact that I have far too many extra figures named Duke and Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow. (Some of them are going into storage and I'm concentrating on having one single solitary "This Is Snake Eyes," figure, while others might get reused or customed depending on how useful they are. Several Dukes have recently become other guys, because their various headsculpts differentiate them. POC Jungle Duke became Sidetrack, an obscure early 2000s repaint character who was packaged with a Duke at one point.)

I never developed the level of comfort of proficienty with the 25A figures that I had with the o-ring figures. (Not that I am mourning the end of o-rings...)

Yeah, anything I do, it's very minor. My most recent one has been Action Force Jammer from a Cobra Island Zap figure and my original 25th Stalker head, with Grunt's webgear. The only paint was the neck and beret, everything else is minor part swapping. (I should take some pics of some recent stuff I've done.) I fear repainting pants or torsos in any decent fashion so usually those stay the same, and I also fear cracking torsos open, so basically every figure I have is stuck with whatever torso, legs and upper arms they had.

Granted, I could call it, uh......"GI Joe" or "The Corps!", (as it would use military imagery), the mechanics and tone of the game are so far removed from either that there would be no point in me even pretending that they have a connection beyond some vague military imagery. (If I decided to customize figures of characters from that game, I would likely use Joes or Lenard product. But, even so, they would be so altered that it would not matter.) Of course, given how rought it is, I could also call it "Marvel Superheroes Mercenary Attack Squad" and it would make as much sense. But, you get the idea.

A good example of this is probably Watchmen, which initially started as Moore revamping the old Charlton Comics characters like the Question, Blue Beetle and Peacemaker, which DC had recently acquired. Moore wrote the basic plot beats with those characters in mind; it was only after DC saw what Moore had in mind (death at the beginning, rape scenes, etc.) that they suggested he change them to original creations, so that they could use the Charlton characters on their own. The Watchmen plot characters were, in some cases, so far removed from their originals that it made more sense to make them original, and to use the Charlton characters within the larger DC universe. (And I would agree. Watchmen became way more successful on the merits of some of its characters than I think it ever could have with the Charlton characters.)

[Dominic]

When it's being done officially? Of course I'm not. I don't like that Cybertron Armorhide has been abandoned in favour of being Shattered Glass Huffer or whatever. I have no problem with Walky or M Sipher or someone calling 'their own' toy that, because that's fanon. It's when those things become canon that I get pissed.

I also get pissed about this kind of laziness. But, the repurposing does not over-write the original character. More than a few club toys have been re-purposed (likely to increase marketability) as more than one character. Thundercracker is both SG and G2. "Time Lines" Astrotrain is made to represent both a UT and an SG character. But, yes, it is lazy.

I admit to getting annoyed when fans talk about "this toy is going to be my ______", just because it strikes me as "customizing for the lazy". (I at least bill my lazier efforts as being lazy.) Why do I want to read about somebody being lazy, ya know?

A good example of this is probably Watchmen, which initially started as Moore revamping the old Charlton Comics characters

There were also plot points that just could not be reconciled with post-Crisis DC. At the time, DC was trying for a unified setting with no alternate timelines and such. And, they had not developed the "Elseworlds" brand. Rather than publish a story using characters that were supposed to be part of the main books, (remember the push Captain Atom got at the time), it was decided to use "new" characters.

In other words, it was brand management.


Dom
-had hopes for the Charlton characters post "52"....

[Onslaught Six]

I admit to getting annoyed when fans talk about "this toy is going to be my ______", just because it strikes me as "customizing for the lazy". (I at least bill my lazier efforts as being lazy.) Why do I want to read about somebody being lazy, ya know?

That's why I don't have a huge list of all the renamed GI Joe toys I have around here. Also, I don't change most things not out of laziness, but a (at least perceived) lack of skill. I'm not comfortable with cracking open figures because I'm pretty sure I would ruin them. And my paint matching skills are not the greatest. So rather than attempt to do things like that, I simply do without most of the time.

[Dominic]

I am going to pass some advice that I got from Jason Rumble.

"Brother, the only way to get better at something is to do it." Now, this is going to sound mind-blowingly hypocritical as I recently dropped out of his wrestling school, (for lack of time). But, he was right.

I do not crack open 25A figures either. But, I make due with what I am able to do. You would be suprised how far a head swap can go. Swapping legs and web-gear is also a practical option. Look at some of my Zartan customs. "True" Zartan, (as in "the guy who was actually Zartan until the character we all know as Zartan killed him and took the name") is a movie SnakeEyes with a new head and some paint. (I should probably use a better Zartan head. But, I need to find an extra before I can do that.) "Zartan's mind" is a Zartan figure with a head swap, (the head itself being modified), a spare "disguise mask" and (maybe) new legs. My Serpentor figure? Regular ol' video pack Serpentor with Duke's head and a little bit of paint. (I am taking advantage of the fact that Duke's facial sculpt really sucks.)

When painting a base colour, it is very often "all or nothing". Unless you are going to lose some critical detail that cannot be easily duplicated, it is best to paint each individual piece in a complete coating of whateve base colour you plan to use, and then add new detail over that. For example, when I painted my Road Rage figure, I did not try to preserve details such as head or tail lights. I painted over them in read, and then went back and recoloured them after the red layer was done. On the other hand, when I get around to applying Kre-O Jazz colours to RTS Jazz, I will go out of my way to preserve the stripes and numbers because there is no way that I will be able to replace those and have them look as good as Hasbro's factory work (sub-par as that may be on many copies).


Dom
-and your collection will look better for it.