All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

The modern comics universe has had such a different take on G1, one that's significantly represented by the Generations toys, so they share a forum. A modern take on a Real Cybertronian Hero. Currently starring Generations toys, IDW "The Transformers" comics, MTMTE, TF vs GI Joe, and Windblade. Oh wait, and now Skybound, wheee!
User avatar
Mako Crab
Supreme-Class
Posts: 901
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:41 pm

Re: All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

Post by Mako Crab »

Dominic wrote:My thoughts on the Matrix in IDW:

-Autobots like Matrix.

-Matrix have no obvious value, but look pretty with shiny lights.

-not having Matrix makes Autobots sad.

-Megatron having Matrix would make Autobots sad.

-sad. Sad.

-better to not tell them about the Matrix.

-Autobots happy, (sort of), that way.


Dom
-sleepy now.

BAH-HA-HAHHAHAHA!!! OMG LMAO!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
User avatar
Shockwave
Supreme-Class
Posts: 6218
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:10 pm
Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

Post by Shockwave »

As Sparky keeps saying, it's clearly implied that the Matrix does have some sort of power it just hasn't actually done anything yet.
User avatar
Sparky Prime
Supreme-Class
Posts: 5316
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:12 am

Re: All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

Post by Sparky Prime »

Dominic wrote:The point is that the Matrix is not universally recognized as having fabulous powers beyond being bling-erfic. Statscream recognized the Matrix as having cultural and symbolic value. It is not unreasonable that other characters on both sides would share that view. Just because the readers knowt he Matrix is stupidly over-powered, there is no reason to assume that the characters all buy into that idea.
Starscream hardly counts as "not universally recognized". Starscream didn't even recognize the cultural/symbolic value until Shrapnel spotted him about to throw it out the ship.
Shockwave wrote:As Sparky keeps saying, it's clearly implied that the Matrix does have some sort of power it just hasn't actually done anything yet.
Exactly.
User avatar
Dominic
Supreme-Class
Posts: 9331
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:55 pm
Location: Boston
Contact:

Re: All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

Post by Dominic »

Starscream recognized the cultural value. But, that is not the same as seeing *real* value, or being able to exploit cultural value.
User avatar
Sparky Prime
Supreme-Class
Posts: 5316
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:12 am

Re: All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

Post by Sparky Prime »

Dominic wrote:Starscream recognized the cultural value.
Again, after Shrapnel pointed it out to him. Remember, he was about to throw it out of the ship because he saw no value in it at all. Starscream is notorious for undervaluing things.
User avatar
Shockwave
Supreme-Class
Posts: 6218
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:10 pm
Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

Post by Shockwave »

And really I would argue that Starscream wasn't even recognizing the cultural value so much as Shrapnel basically told him "Hey you could use it as an excuse to assume command". At least that's what Starscream got out of it, despite that not being what Shrapnel meant (I would also note that Starscream was ignoring Shrapnel's "author intent" in favor of his own interpretation).
User avatar
andersonh1
Moderator
Posts: 6459
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:22 pm
Location: South Carolina

Re: All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

Post by andersonh1 »

Shockwave wrote:And really I would argue that Starscream wasn't even recognizing the cultural value so much as Shrapnel basically told him "Hey you could use it as an excuse to assume command". At least that's what Starscream got out of it, despite that not being what Shrapnel meant (I would also note that Starscream was ignoring Shrapnel's "author intent" in favor of his own interpretation).
It was more a case of Shrapnel showing awe about the Matrix in front of Starscream, and Starscream figuring that if one Decepticon had that attitude, maybe the others did and he could use that. Which is what he did.
User avatar
Gomess
Supreme-Class
Posts: 2767
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:10 am
Location: Eng-er-land

All Hail Megatron

Post by Gomess »

TL;DR version (first, because that makes more sense)… AHM itself (not counting the other additive Spotlights injected in this particular hardback trade) is an entertaining read for a fan of old school TF and 80s-style kids’ fiction in general, but suffers from occasionally clunkalicious dialogue and a horribly cliché ending.

I’ll just get this inconvenient truth out the way so it doesn’t ruin the rest of this: I’m kind of done with the comic book medium. And by comic book, I mean ongoing books written by a bunch of varying writers and artists over a potentially unending period of time. It just doesn’t work for me, for a variety of boring reasons. So, AHM couldn’t *blow me away* simply by virtue of its medium. Shame, but true, and now I can critique it more fairly. So, on we go!

First impressions were definitely positive. Communist propaganda imagery was cliché long ago, but I took the cover in a campy meta-G1 spirit. It’s appropriate.

The Constructicons open their act with a joke (and I don’t mean Long Haul having his name written on his license plate). The humour here reminds me of the old Marvel UK comics, but it clashes oddly with the flashy modern ‘Murrican art for me. That said, here’s about where I notice the art actually borrows a LOT from the old G1 manga, particularly in the facial expressions and proportions. Nice to see that style make a comeback, since it really improved on the famous cartoon models back then, and still does.

I enjoyed how some of the classic G1 characters’ portrayals are skewed slightly, striking a balance between their cartoon and tech spec versions. Frenzy stands out, with his tech spec’s sonic power and the cartoon’s piledrivers replaced with drills, as well as an explanation that his sonic power drives him just as insane as it does everyone else. Nifty. And… I kind of accept the strong possibility that he’s not gonna be a major character any time soon. One of the problems of G1 fiction; too big a cast.

Other classic characters don’t benefit so well from a modern remake… Oh mercy, the Jazz Conundrum. You guys are my only link with TF fandom, so I dunno if this has come up much before, but let’s be clear here: cartoon Jazz was goofy. Not “racist”, but certainly a racially-motivated stereotype. So, I understand if modern writers want to shy away from making him talk in 70s (yes, it was outdated even in the 80s) Ebonics all the time, but the thing is… what are you going to replace it with? Jazz’s voice here comes off as a little half-hearted. If you get rid of the Explicitly Black thing, you’ve still got the “do it with style or don’t bother doing it” to fall back on, but that’s nowhere to be seen, either. I understand the story is set at a time when Autobot morale is next to nonexistent, but Jazz really comes off as a nervous background character here, particularly next to Prowl’s constant- and strong- inner monologues.

Yeah, I like powerbehindthethrone!Prowl. It’s how I always imagined him anyway. ‘Nuff said.

The “Who would stare at a tiny light in all day in the hope that it would flash for just a millisecond” bit was such obvious setup, but the payoff was nice. Made me lol. Can’t help thinking the writer’s got a bit of a boner for Cliffjumper, though. And Ironhide. Speaking of Ironhide… “Red”, seriously? C’mon. Seriously?

Was kinda hoping the opening shot of a hospitalised Spike surrounded by Sexy Nurses was at least a setup for a punchline, but... Nope. Just Sexy Nurses because Sexy Nurses. Don't ever ask me why I don't pay money for this shit anymore.

But hey, positive stuff!

It’s nice to see Wheeljack and Bumblebee hanging out, presumably a MTMTE reference. But Wheeljack is… different. Up until now IDW were doing a good job of fleshing out the classic cartoon characters (c’mon, it’s basically G1 Season 1 in here) by adding elements of their tech specs, but… I dunno, am I alone in seeing Wheeljack as more of a neckbearded “I ain’t really a NERD ‘cos I gots an ACCENT and an ATTITUDE!” scientist? :ugeek: He’s like, uh… the one off Mythbusters? Is that the guy I’m thinking of? Anyway, he really doesn’t come off that way here, and it confused me, but hey, IDW can do their own thing. More of this when we get to Thundercracker.

Ah, Thundercracker. You were made out to be one of the big USPs of this book; I almost thought you were the protagonist, and folk were talking as if you’d finally been portrayed with respect to your original tech spec! Fantastic, I’ve always wanted to see a trio of more toy-accurate Seekers palling around, their different personalities bouncing off each other!

…Unfortunately, as Skywarp himself points out, “Starscream is hardly here”. Too right. But that’s fine, Skywarp and Thundercracker should be able to have plenty of fun together. At first, all seems good, little bit of tension here and there. But then… HONOUR. Yes. HONOUR. Oh dear. I’d hoped for some subtlety, but it seems IDW’s interpretation of “unconvinced by the Decepticon cause” is “rebel samurai truer to his cause than his own emperor I WILL HELP THE GOODIES WIN BECAUSE HONOURRRRR”. Ho-hum. And Skywarp seemingly kills him for his transgression. With no drama. Or personality. Weren’t these guys meant to have been lifelong friends? Is this really all we get? It’s a shame that one of the big selling points you guys used to sell AHM to me turned out to be such a dud, but hey, it doesn’t ruin the whole experience by any means.

But hey, it was very satisfying to see it explicitly pointed out that, compared to how the Decepticons choose their leader based solely on strength and charisma, the Autobots’ method of “divine right” by way of a magical McGuffin is incredibly old-fashioned and downright weird. I can only hope IDW did something with this, since it’s one of the most unique and interesting points AHM makes. The Roche story that depicts Starscream considering the merits of keeping the Matrix certainly take it in a good direction.

The Spotlights are hit and miss. I’m a little surprised that the one about Prowl turning Kup into a populist mouthpiece and the one about Cliffjumper saving Anime Land come from the same studio. Or decade.

Aw, man, IDW Bludgeon has a sword. So much for toy accuracy. ='[ Gotta say, though, the flashbacks to the stories involving Bludgeon and Thunderwing REALLY made me appreciate AHM. They look exactly like the kind of TF stories that bore me shitless. More stuff set on Earth, pls!

…Anyways, that was more of a stream of consciousness ramble than a review. It was good, but not great. At least on par with the best of the old Marvel stuff, if not better. So, I guess that does make it great, by TF standards. Thanks to Trekwave for sending it to me!! Now you just gotta review all the candy I sent you. =3

So what's next, Last Stand of the Wreckers??
COME TO TFVIEWS oh you already did
User avatar
Dominic
Supreme-Class
Posts: 9331
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:55 pm
Location: Boston
Contact:

Re: All Hail Megatron

Post by Dominic »

Ah well, we may as well have a new thread.
AHM itself (not counting the other additive Spotlights injected in this particular hardback
The Spotlights are all thematically or otherwise relevant in some way.
but suffers from occasionally clunkalicious dialogue and a horribly cliché ending.
I cannot think of anything that particularly bothered me, and this kind of thing usually makes me borderline violent. (Seriously. Badly written sentences make me want to inflict harm on the writer.)
Nice to see that style make a comeback, since it really improved on the famous cartoon models back then, and still does.
I do not know if you missed it, or are just more forgiving of it, (your history with the old UK comic would likely have desensitized you either way), but character models are one of the few common gripes I agreed with. It is most glaring with the seekers going from their Masterpiece bodies in the early chapters to CHUG/G1 bodies later.
If you get rid of the Explicitly Black thing, you’ve still got the “do it with style or don’t bother doing it” to fall back on, but that’s nowhere to be seen, either.
It is in the Spotlight story. In AHM proper though, Jazz is only slightly less defeated than the other guys. Style is hard to pull off when your metaphorical back is broken.
Can’t help thinking the writer’s got a bit of a boner for Cliffjumper,
Careful, it might put your eye out. Seriously. McCarthy is on record admitting as much. And, the result was that piece of crap Spotlight featuring Cliffjumper. That I will call McCarthy out on, and it is a good example of why fans should not be able to write without an aggressive editor.
Was kinda hoping the opening shot of a hospitalised Spike surrounded by Sexy Nurses was at least a setup for a punchline, but... Nope. Just Sexy Nurses because Sexy Nurses. Don't ever ask me why I don't pay money for this shit anymore.
That sets up for Spike's characterizatin in the ongoing. Sexy nurses was intentional, and even acknowledged on the page if I remember correctly. (Spike has patrons in high places who ensure that he gets the best of everything, including "scenery" in his hospital room.)
neckbearded
What the hell does this word even mean? Legit, I have heard it before, and still do not quite get where it came from. Sorry. Just, it has been bothering me for a while now.
“I ain’t really a NERD ‘cos I gots an ACCENT and an ATTITUDE!” scientist?
More of crazy, but lovable, uncle maybe?
And Skywarp seemingly kills him for his transgression. With no drama. Or personality. Weren’t these guys meant to have been lifelong friends?
Disagree completely.

Skywarp is clearly lost. He knows that something is wrong, but is not quite smart enough to figure out what. Thundercracker does not want to see/understand it. But, he can only avoid it for so long. And, despite their long time friendship, their different levels of understanding drive them apart. The "just like old times" scene is one of the more powerful things that I have read in a comic.

One of the big ideas in AHM is ennui, and these two embody it. Skywarp is less able to think abstractly than Thundercracker, so he cannot understand that Thundercracker was being more loyal to principle than faction, hence the shooting at the end.
I can only hope IDW did something with this, since it’s one of the most unique and interesting points AHM makes.
Looks like you need to pick up the ongoing.
The Roche story that depicts Starscream considering the merits of keeping the Matrix certainly take it in a good direction.
Costa wrote it actually, but otherwise, yeah. Shrapnel's reaction is priceless.

I’m a little surprised that the one about Prowl turning Kup into a populist mouthpiece and the one about Cliffjumper saving Anime Land come from the same studio. Or decade.
Please elaborate on both points. I thought you were okay with Prowl being kind of a ruthless SOB. And, the only thing suprising about the cliffjumper story was that I thought that kind of "paint by numbers" writing was not allowed in comics published after 1990.
So much for toy accuracy.
At this point, I am going to say that the toy is wrong. It may have come first, but everything else has contradicted and over-written it.


Dom
-was going to post a couple of short book review today, but screw that.
User avatar
Gomess
Supreme-Class
Posts: 2767
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:10 am
Location: Eng-er-land

Re: All Hail Megatron

Post by Gomess »

Dominic wrote:I cannot think of anything that particularly bothered me, and this kind of thing usually makes me borderline violent.
Basically all of Starscream and Megatron's dialogue. I found myself skimming it, and I only do that in very special cases. It just had no momentum.
What the hell does this word even mean?
An unshaved neck is often the trademark of a nerd who thinks they are Cool. Neckbeard is generally used to deride the overly aggressive or particularly manchildish.
More of crazy, but lovable, uncle maybe?
Sure, a relatively young uncle, though. Late 20s to early 30s. A loose cannon technician. In every sense of the phrase.
The "just like old times" scene is one of the more powerful things that I have read in a comic.
In a TF comic, I definitely agree. But...
Skywarp is less able to think abstractly than Thundercracker, hence the shooting at the end.
...Going from "I don't understand you!" to "KABLAMMO" is just poor storytelling. And don't pull the "Decepticons are EVIL!" card, because this whole story is clearly about *developing* the Decepticon identity. Killing off such a potentially fascinating character immediately sinks that concept. We're just gonna have to agree to disagree, because this was one of the shittiest endings to a story I've seen in a loooong time. HONOUR
Looks like you need to pick up the ongoing.
Nice try!
Costa wrote it actually
Looks like Roche's art though, isn't it?
I thought you were okay with Prowl being kind of a ruthless SOB. And, the only thing suprising about the cliffjumper story was that I thought that kind of "paint by numbers" writing was not allowed in comics published after 1990.
What I meant was, the Prowl story was quite deep. The Cliffjumper story was VERY shallow. It amazed me that a company could produce both. As you've said, they needed more ruthless editing.
At this point, I am going to say that the toy is wrong.
...Not when it comes to toy-accuracy.

HONOUR
COME TO TFVIEWS oh you already did
Post Reply