Comics are Awesome II

[138 Scourge]

A good writer should be able to make you care about a character, so it sounds like whoever is writing the book is doing something right. Aren't they making Flash Thompson Venom, only he's trying not to use the symbiote very often so it won't control him?

That's about the size of it, Flash lost a couple limbs while doing Army stuff, and now works as part of a project that's trying to use the symbiote in America's interests. In theory, he only has a certain number of missions he can go on before he's done, and can only stay in the suit so long per mission to prevent "permanent" bonding with the thing. Of course, how permanent can it be if two other guys have permanently bonded with this thing before, and they seem to be okay. Well, more or less okay, anyway. And in the first couple issues Flash wound up in the suit for more than a couple of days anyway, so I don't know if that's as much of a thing. But it's not just Flash and the suit, he's got a whole support staff and a CO that he reports to and everything.

As for if the writer's doing his job, oh yeah, he really is. It's not even that I was apathetic towards Venom, I've actively disliked the character since about the mid-nineties. But Rick Remender's the fella that Frankensteined up the Punisher during an amazing run on that book, so I was willing to check it out. And while making me interested in Flash Thompson is easy enough, I've always liked the guy. But getting me really interested in Venom as a concept and in Eddie Brock? Takes some skill, there, and dude's just doing a helluva job every issue. At this point, I'm half-tempted to check out X-Force since Remender writes it, and that book's got Deadpool in it. I generally loathe Deadpool, but I'd almost be willing to read Remender's take on him.

Venom sounds like it's a great book at this point. (Or was this in Anti-Venom? That's the fucking problem with comics, man!)

Yessir, yes it is a mighty fine book. Great art that alternates between Tom Fowler and Tony Moore, and both of those guys are really damn good. And it's all in "Venom", Sparky's right, there's no Anti-Venom book at the moment. Tell you what, though, after this last issue of "Venom", I'd almost get behind an "Anti-Venom" book. Provided that Anti-Venom makes it out of Spider-Island alive, anyway.

(Or was this in Anti-Venom? That's the fucking problem with comics, man!)

I don't see what the problem is. Marvel hasn't even really published an Anti-Venom book. They did a 3 part "Amazing Spider-Man Presents: Anti-Venom" story a couple years ago, but that's the closest to his own titles he's gotten. At any rate, they're only publishing Venom right now.

Well, one could argue the point that the character had his own title back in the awful 90's when he was Venom, but that'd be just pendantic. Anyway, I can actually see what O6 is saying here. It's not whether or not there's an Anti-Venom book, it's that comics' characters seem to just get spread out and diluted between so many books with the same type of thing. Like, you can't just have Hulk comics, you gotta have Hulk, Red Hulk, Skarr, Son of Hulk, and maybe She-Hulk? Or you can't get just Batman, you gotta have Batman, Dectective Comics, Batwoman, Batgirl, Robin, and probably something else besides. A lot of these spinoff things are really well done, but it still can get irritating when one character can't just have the one book, but they've gotta support a whole damn subline.

[andersonh1]

So, month one of the DC reboot/relaunch is over, and I ended up trying quite a few books that I won't be buying the second issue of, mainly just to see how the new approach went.

- Justice League
- Action Comics
- Justice League International
- Batman
- Nightwing
- Aquaman
- Batman and Robin
- Batgirl
- Green Lantern
- Superman
- The Flash

And then from Marvel,
- Daredevil
- Captain America

And of course, from IDW
- Transformers

Yeah, I’m a traditionalist when it comes to super-hero comics. That’s 14 books, but I’d really prefer to keep it at about half that amount. And about half those will be easy to cut, either because the story failed to catch my interest or I didn't like some change to the character. In any case, a few capsule thoughts on all these titles:

Justice League
The book is more decompressed then I’d prefer, but the art is great, and the character lineup is/will be who I prefer to read about when I pick up a book titled “Justice League”. All of DC’s big guns in one book? If the story is good, that’s always a winning idea.

Action Comics
Grant Morrison reminds us why Golden Age Superman was so successful. Superman has a more clearly defined point of view and motivation than just “helping people”, and it makes a difference in his characterization. He’s less powerful, so he has to work harder for his victory, despite all the advantages he has. And the book certainly lives up to its name with plenty of action.

Justice League International
I don’t mind a Justice League book with second-stringers as long as it’s not the primary title. This is a very safe, traditional, middle of the road superhero book built around Booster Gold and Batman. It has potential, and could be quite good if they actually handle crises around the world instead of just the USA, and if they let the B and C-list characters shine.

Batman
An excellent introductory issue on all fronts, even if the plot is just getting off the ground. If you’re not familiar with the current cast of Batman and his rogues’ gallery, this book will tell you who they all are and do it in a way that makes sense.

Nightwing
I like the character, but this issue isn’t nearly as good as the last Nightwing #1 by Chuck Dixon, in large part because we’ve got Batman-lite with Grayson staying in Gotham rather than striking out on his own and living his own life. The story also looks backward toward’s Dick’s life in the circus rather than forward. However the art is really strong and detailed, and there are many directions to take the character, so the book has potential.

Aquaman
Instant win. Aquaman turns every stereotype about the character on its head by having the DC citizens make all the common complaints about him and having Aquaman show why they’re wrong. This makes for entertaining storytelling, even if the main plot barely gets started. I love seeing Aquaman go buy lunch in a seafood restaurant. Superhero and former monarch in an everyday setting, paying with gold doubloons. Great mix of the fantastic and mundane that more comics should shoot for.

Batman and Robin
This book will live or die on the character dynamic between Bruce and Damien Wayne. It’s not a combo I like since Tim Drake was more my idea of the ideal Robin. But the Batman Inc.–related storyline interests me, mainly because it’s starting to demonstrate that Bruce may have made a major mistake by linking his name with Batman in such a public way.

Batgirl
Maybe I just have a soft spot for a well-written female character who’s overcome so much horror in her life so she can continue to fight the good fight. I can’t say the plot of this first issue impressed me all that much, but the character of Barbara Gordon is someone I enjoyed reading.

Green Lantern
This series had grown a bit stale over the past year, but finally the plot has taken a far more interesting turn. Hal has no clue how to live a normal civilian life and interact with people, does he? And why is Sinestro unable to remove his GL ring? It also helps that this book feels the least “rebooted” of any title I’ve read.

Daredevil
This is an old-fashioned fun superhero comic, where the main character enjoys his life and has adventures in civilian and superhero lives that intersect, making both his real and secret identities relevant to the book. So far, violence and gore are minimal, which is also refreshing and a huge contrast with the DC books I’ve been reading.

Captain America
The story keeps me reading, and the art is great. And like Daredevil, the series represents a comic universe that’s mostly unfamiliar to me as someone who has rarely read Marvel comics, meaning there are all sorts of new characters and situations to explore. The “man from the 40s operating in the present day” is a nice hook and makes Steve Rogers an interesting character with a different perspective.

Transformers
I’ve been a fan of the Transformers in general and Generation One in particular since I was 13 years old. And as long as the stories and art are good, I’ll keep reading. I love being able to buy the continuing adventures of Optimus Prime, Megatron, and all the other G1 characters every month.

The Flash
I miss the Flash legacy/family aspect of the old series, but super-speed tricks can still be entertaining. I guess it helps that I have no idea what Barry Allen was like during his original series since Wally was the Flash when I started reading comics. But all the seams in the new costume design look awful, and the book just isn't grabbing me. This one's probably gone.

Superman
I can’t stress how much I dislike the new costume. It’s amazing to me how just removing the red trunks throws the whole look off. In any case, there’s a lot of meta commentary in this issue with the destruction of the old Daily Planet building and unveiling of the new one, and cast members being moved out of their traditional employment roles. Clark/Superman is angrier than he used to be, and the fight is pretty boilerplate. The book is a fairly easy pass in future, though for once there’s a ton of dialogue and story, meaning more words for the money which is always appreciated.

[Sparky Prime]

Anyway, I can actually see what O6 is saying here. It's not whether or not there's an Anti-Venom book, it's that comics' characters seem to just get spread out and diluted between so many books with the same type of thing. Like, you can't just have Hulk comics, you gotta have Hulk, Red Hulk, Skarr, Son of Hulk, and maybe She-Hulk? Or you can't get just Batman, you gotta have Batman, Dectective Comics, Batwoman, Batgirl, Robin, and probably something else besides. A lot of these spinoff things are really well done, but it still can get irritating when one character can't just have the one book, but they've gotta support a whole damn subline.

How do you get that out of O6 being confused over what title this took place in? There is no Anti-Venom comic, only Venom. and it really isn't like Hulk or Batman with all of their spin-off titles. To my understanding of Venom, despite itself being characters spun-off from Spider-Man, it's a self contained story.

[Onslaught Six]

Anyway, I can actually see what O6 is saying here. It's not whether or not there's an Anti-Venom book, it's that comics' characters seem to just get spread out and diluted between so many books with the same type of thing. Like, you can't just have Hulk comics, you gotta have Hulk, Red Hulk, Skarr, Son of Hulk, and maybe She-Hulk? Or you can't get just Batman, you gotta have Batman, Dectective Comics, Batwoman, Batgirl, Robin, and probably something else besides. A lot of these spinoff things are really well done, but it still can get irritating when one character can't just have the one book, but they've gotta support a whole damn subline.

How do you get that out of O6 being confused over what title this took place in? There is no Anti-Venom comic, only Venom. and it really isn't like Hulk or Batman with all of their spin-off titles. To my understanding of Venom, despite itself being characters spun-off from Spider-Man, it's a self contained story.

Ah, but here's the thing: I don't know there isn't an Anti-Venom book. I just assumed there is, because Anti-Venom is a thing, and it seems like every damn superhero character (or supervillain for that matter) warrants their own book these days. And really, maybe that's how it should be, because maybe I just want to read about Anti-Venom And The Continuing Shit Eddie Brock Does instead of Flash Thompson, The Guy Who Beat Up Spiderman In High School Only Now He Has The Venom Suit On.

(I mean, that said, the way Scourge tells it this sounds like it's awesome, but still.)

[Dominic]

Yeah, I’m a traditionalist when it comes to super-hero comics. That’s 14 books, but I’d really prefer to keep it at about half that amount. And about half those will be easy to cut, either because the story failed to catch my interest or I didn't like some change to the character. In any case, a few capsule thoughts on all these titles:

I spent most of this year trying to get my pull-list down to 5. And, when I did that, TF was announced to be splitting, and that retro-Fuman G1 series was announced. I will boost my reading list to 7 next year, but not add any books until I happen to cut it down to 2 or less.


My pull list:
Transformers: Costa can write. And, the art has generally ranged from competent to excellent. I am a bit annoyed by "Chaos", but will wait until after the renumbering to make a decision.

Cobra: The only "GI Joe" book worth reading these last 3 years. Shame that I am so far behind on it.

New Avengers: Bendis is doing a solid team book. No real high conept, but very readable.

Moon Knight: Drags in places, but I will give it a few more months.

Ultimate Spiderman: I am pretty much obligated to read this, if only because it is a "masks and tights" book with real changes over the years. They got me until next spring at least.








So, I know it has been brought up elsewhere, but man DC's new timeline is carked up. Even if we assume t hat Batman is an exception to the 5-year rule, the timeline is still very tight at best, and very problematic.

What does everybody think about that?

[Sparky Prime]

Ah, but here's the thing: I don't know there isn't an Anti-Venom book.

My point being: it isn't hard to find out that there is no Anti-Venom book since Marvel hasn't even published one, other than a 3 part mini-series.

[Shockwave]

Ah, but here's the thing: I don't know there isn't an Anti-Venom book.

other than a 3 part mini-series.

That would count in my book.

[Sparky Prime]

other than a 3 part mini-series.

That would count in my book.

I wouldn't since it wasn't an ongoing title, and it was technically under the Amazing Spider-Man title as "The Amazing Spider-Man Presents: Anti-Venom New Ways to Live".

[Onslaught Six]

other than a 3 part mini-series.

That would count in my book.

I wouldn't since it wasn't an ongoing title, and it was technically under the Amazing Spider-Man title as "The Amazing Spider-Man Presents: Anti-Venom New Ways to Live".

Who cares? This is the most bullshit semantic argument ever. The point is I am a casualfag about comics and have no idea what series Marvel is or isn't running right now and frankly there's very little way to go out there and easily find out. And imagine if I didn't have you guys talking about these books so they're on my peripheral vision--I'd pick up Venom and suddenly go "What the fuck is this shit?" because Flash Thompson is the main character.

Comics aren't being written for everybody anymore. They're being written for comics fans. And nowhere is this more apparent than the new 52, which is a great segue into...

So, I know it has been brought up elsewhere, but man DC's new timeline is carked up. Even if we assume t hat Batman is an exception to the 5-year rule, the timeline is still very tight at best, and very problematic.

What does everybody think about that?

The 5-year rule doesn't quite work like that, I don't think. It's not that have been active since exactly Five Years Ago, that'd be silly. A friend of mine who actively reads all the Bat-books and I sat down and tried to actively figure out a Bat-timeline--Bruce is stated (outright, or implied? I dunno, I don't read comics) to be "about 30" which realistically paints him as having been Batman for, at best, ten years at this point. (A more fair number is six or seven years.) That's the only way we can have the various Robins work out with a decent enough time for all of them having Been Robin, plus adding in Dick's time as Batman.

This isn't even counting that according to Dan Didio no Crisis events count anymore, at all, ever. So how the hell did Batman die? Who cares?

[Sparky Prime]

frankly there's very little way to go out there and easily find out.

As I already said, it's not difficult to figure it out at all. Marvel's monthly solicitations, Wiki pages, google searches, various comic and fan sites and message boards, the absence of any Anti-Venom comics at the store... and so on. All of those could show you there is no Anti-Venom title.

The 5-year rule doesn't quite work like that, I don't think. It's not that have been active since exactly Five Years Ago, that'd be silly.

Yeah, it's my understanding that it's just the Justice League that formed 5 years ago and is when many heroes became more publicly known. Batman in-particular has been said to have been operating for some time before the 5 year mark, but he's known only as an urban legend before that. Superman is indicated to have been around a while before as well, long enough to be considered the first superhero known to the public. And others would seem to have been around a while, considering a kid asks Victor about his dad studying super humans for a living.

This isn't even counting that according to Dan Didio no Crisis events count anymore, at all, ever. So how the hell did Batman die? Who cares?

I don't think Dan Didio knows what he's talking about. Editors at DC have said that everything they thought was integral and important was kept. Like you said, we know Bruce "died" and Dick was Batman for a year before returning to Nightwing in the DCnU. But if that wasn't in Final Crisis, then how did it happen? Same thing with Barry's death in CoIE.