We've got Hall of Fame voting going on up there

[Dominic]

Those Wal*Marts are considerably less accessible for me. And, all of the easily accessible TrU stores went away a few years back. Remember, I cannot drive.

And, I have known people who (if only for a time) were paying the bills by flipping toys.


Dom
-considered it for a time.

[Shockwave]

Flipping is another beast altogether. There's nothing wrong with it at all, in fact I have been able to pay off huge debts by doing that. But it's not scalping. If you buy a huge lot of G1 Transformers on ebay and then turn around and sell them individually for profit, there's nothing wrong with that. Someone gets to clear out their garage or what ever and make some money as well and you get to make a few bucks in the process and might even be able to keep one or two of your favorites as well, essentially getting the toys for free.

[Dominic]

Some would argue that buying up lots and selling the individual items for a profit is a form of scalping though.

Does the profit margin matter?


Dom
-would love to be able to make money buying low and selling high. I mean, c'mon.....

[Shockwave]

No, the profit margin isn't really the issue, it's the initial availability of the toys. Flipping G1 toys on ebay isn't scalping because G1 toys aren't available on the toy aisle so one would have to go to outlets like ebay for them anyway. Thus, the collectors who buy the toys aren't paying artificially inflated prices for them, they're paying current market value. The guy that sells the lot isn't really losing out because he/she likely does not have access to the time or resources to part them individually for more profit or else they would do so.

[Onslaught Six]

I know that they mark things up. But, in some cases, that is how they make their money and pay the bills.

Bullshit. At best, you could argue that someone who runs a toy store, like BBTS or Toy Fusion out here makes their money by scalping and to an extent you'd be correct, but (at least in the case of Toy Fusion, I know for a fact that they have other ways of acquiring inventory to sell for profit beyond scalping and that method is usually the primary bread and butter so to speak. I know of no one who has ever made a consistent living by running around to various toy stores to buy up their entire stock of wanted items for profit.

Woah, BBTS doesn't scalp. They buy the cases from Hasbro and set their own prices--*that* is a perfectly legitimate business right there. That's 'capitalism.'

Also, BBTS generally prices their stuff according to supply and demand. Less desirable figures will be MSRP or even less generally, while more desirable figures will be more--this is to offset the cost of them 'having undesirable figures.' BBTS buys by the case like a regular store. If Hasbro packs a case with two Tuner Mudflaps and one Generations Thundercracker (just an example) the price they set on Thundy will have to be inflated to cover the fact that nobody will ever buy those Mudflaps. Or, those Mudflaps will need to be significantly reduced to move them, and the reduced cost will go onto Thundy anyway.

Anyway: If scalpers did not buy the figures in the first place, then anybody could buy them. Yes, I bought another cheap Lugnut to trade to a friend. (I'm now paying less on my "half" of the Generations case, which wasn't ever really half anyway.) But, I reason, if he had been there himself, he would have bought it anyway--for the $10 he is giving me for it.

That said, don't think *I* haven't been tempted to grab some of these Ross finds and eBay them for profit--but then I looked at them on eBay and they aren't going for any more than most figures from these lines anyway. (I've found that, on eBay, with shipping thrown in, you can generally expect to pay between $5 and $10 over the retail price for a given figure, and I've deemed that reasonable given the semi-rarity of these later figures.)

[Shockwave]

I said to some extent. I wasn't referring to their Transformers selections, but more things like MOTU Classics that can only be ordered through mattycollector.com. I know for a fact that they've been scalping those since the early days of the line, mostly at the expense of single collectors just trying to get through the website to get a single copy. Somehow they were able to get enough copies to sell said figs at a 75% markup while individual collectors couldn't even get through the website owing to traffic and only getting what's now known as the White Screen Of Death (WSOD). Now currently, mattel has fixed their website so that the WSoD isn't really an issue anymore and most collectors are able to get the figures they want, but BBTS still winds up with an ample amount and still at a 75% mark up. Mattel has effectively eliminated the scalping for current figures, but during the first few years BBTS was definitely guilty of scalping this line.

[Onslaught Six]

I'll give you that; I wasn't aware they did that. As shady as it seems, I think that's par for the course with that line--'anybody' selling it other than MattyCollector would have had to buy them from there to begin with.

EDIT: Posted via Zobovor in a thread on ATT about the same thing that I totally didn't start:

SCENARIO 1:
33-year-old Bob buys one popular and highly sought-after Screwloose toy, leaving three others on the pegs. The others are subsequently purchased by Timmy, a six-year-old fan; Mike, another adult collector; and Frank, who is shopping for his nephew's birthday. In this scenario, everybody gets the toy they wanted.

SCENARIO 2:
Bob buys all four Screwloose toys and resells three of them, keeping one for himself. Timmy doesn't get one. Frank never finds one for his nephew. Mike finds Bob's auction online and bids on it and reluctantly ends up paying double the retail price plus shipping. In this scenario, Bob not only got the toy he wanted, but he made back all the money he spent plus a tidy profit. He is the only one of our four consumers who emerges triumphant and happy.

For me to be a successful scalper, I have to first prevent you from getting the toy you want by taking away your chances of getting it at retail. If you still want it, you have to buy it from me at an inflated price. Am I doing you a favor because I'm conducting a geographic redistribution, or am I being selfish because I want you to give me more money for the toy than I paid for it myself?

[Dominic]

Zobovor's scenario is a gross over-simplification.

Does anybody not see how much scalping is similar to the following:

Also, BBTS generally prices their stuff according to supply and demand. Less desirable figures will be MSRP or even less generally, while more desirable figures will be more--this is to offset the cost of them 'having undesirable figures.' BBTS buys by the case like a regular store. If Hasbro packs a case with two Tuner Mudflaps and one Generations Thundercracker (just an example) the price they set on Thundy will have to be inflated to cover the fact that nobody will ever buy those Mudflaps. Or, those Mudflaps will need to be significantly reduced to move them, and the reduced cost will go onto Thundy anyway.

BBTS acquires merchandise and sells it for what it is worth. Does anybody here really think that Boblitt is not making a profit?

Scalpers are just a bit more precise.

Zobovor's scenario ignores O6 and Dom, two adult collectors who would have purchased the figure in question, but cannot because the kid has it. Yes, successfully scalping involves depriving somebody of a toy. But, so does collecting. I bought Lugnut and Deepdive on Friday. Part of me wanted to wait until today, (when it would have been easier to deal with them), but I did not want to on the basis that somebody (kid or adult) would likely have purchased them over the weekend.

At least when a scalper buys something, collectors have a second (if expensive) chance at the figures they want.


Dom
-would like figures to be easier to find as well, but.....

[Onslaught Six]

Zobovor's scenario ignores O6 and Dom, two adult collectors who would have purchased the figure in question, but cannot because the kid has it. Yes, successfully scalping involves depriving somebody of a toy. But, so does collecting. I bought Lugnut and Deepdive on Friday. Part of me wanted to wait until today, (when it would have been easier to deal with them), but I did not want to on the basis that somebody (kid or adult) would likely have purchased them over the weekend.

At least when a scalper buys something, collectors have a second (if expensive) chance at the figures they want.

But here's the thing--if I arrive at a store, and something isn't there because a child has it...I don't feel bad. Hell, even if another adult collector finds it first, good for him. He obviously wanted it more than I did and got there first. Maybe it was just luck; the right person in the right place at the right time. The point is, I'm sure I've been on the positive end of such Toy Karma before. Some days, I am the guy who got there first.

The fact is, there's only so many of them to go around. And you know what? In the long run, it doesn't matter if I get Wreck-Gar or not. Fuck, dude, I don't even really like Wreck-Gar. I'm just looking for him because he's out, and he's a character from 1986. You know who else I didn't get? Tracks and Perceptor. I don't even really like either of them, and I'm starting to realize that maybe I *don't* need every Goddamn G1 homage that comes out. So if Jimmy The Kid wants to buy Wreck-Gar because he sees a badass motorcycle guy with a mustache, I say let him.

Part of me is seriously now reconsidering my toy buying habits because of this shit.

Because, you know what's going to happen if I buy Wreck-Gar? He's going to get transformed three or four times, and then get put on my TV. And then moved to my bookshelf. And then moved to my other bookshelf. And then he's going to collect dust until I realize I've bought way too many toys lately and I need to reorganize the shelves. And depending on how much I decide I like occasionally glancing to my left and seeing Wreck-Gar, he'll get put on a different shelf or he'll go in a box and probably never get displayed again.

Whereas the very same Wreck-Gar could be a central element of Jimmy's entire play pattern. Wreck-Gar could become his favourite toy ever, and in ten or twenty years, when he's an adult collector, he might be looking for the new Wreck-Gar too.

[Dominic]

I am not saying that we have to buy every toy. In some cases, (such as when buying custom fodder or secondary/tertiary favorites), I am less aggressive. (I passed on a "Generations" Blurr for this reason, and ended up finding one later.)

But, refusing to partake in part of the hobby that you like on the basis that somebody else cannot partake is lunacy. Odds are that little Jimmy does not care about Wreckgar specifically, and there are plenty of other kick-ass robo cycles out there. Chopsaw, (a toy that I have heard many good things about but that does not fit my current standard), could just as easily get Jimmy into the habit, all hard core like. (I am skipping movie toys as I am not a fan of the movies, even if some of them do seem kinda cool.)


Dom
-what if it was Onslaught?