Comics are awesome.

[andersonh1]

So far, Enterprise was the only one that I can recall that blatantly out and out contradicted continuity and one could even argue that the way it ended effectively explains any contradiction. Heh, that was the best way to end that series. Riker walks out of the holodeck and says "Computer, end program". Etcha-sketch! Whole series never happened!

The ironic thing is that since the new movie created a new timeline, that Enterprise is the only series that's taken place in both continuities. Yikes.

[BWprowl]

As much as I like idea-based stories, comics are primarily event driven. But, the more quickly and easily one story over-writes another, the less meaning the events have at even a basic level. (Who cares if Captain America gets shot if he is just going to come back thanks to a magic bullet? I am hard-pressed to think of a single event book that has really mattered. Even CoIE has functionally been over-written.)

I daresay that Identity Crisis had some decent long-term effects, since here we are years later, and half the DCU still can't shut up about Sue Dibney. It also created the new characterization for Dr. Light that lasted all the way up 'til his death.

[Dominic]

Of course, we have to ask if it was worth ruining Sue Dibny, (a hard character to replace), for "Identity Crisis".

I would hav to say no.


Dom

[Shockwave]

So far, Enterprise was the only one that I can recall that blatantly out and out contradicted continuity and one could even argue that the way it ended effectively explains any contradiction. Heh, that was the best way to end that series. Riker walks out of the holodeck and says "Computer, end program". Etcha-sketch! Whole series never happened!

The ironic thing is that since the new movie created a new timeline, that Enterprise is the only series that's taken place in both continuities. Yikes.

Yeah, Scotty did make a referrence to "Admiral Archer's prized beagle" didn't he? Although even that statement unto itself implies that things are very different in that universe so the events in the series could be vastly different as well.

[BWprowl]

Of course, we have to ask if it was worth ruining Sue Dibny, (a hard character to replace), for "Identity Crisis".

I would hav to say no.


Dom

Well, that wasn't the original question, you were just asking which 'Crisis' has made changes that stuck, and I delivered on that front.

Anyway, I'm going to embarrassingly admit that I haven't actually read 'Identity Crisis', though I know the basic idea. How, exactly, did it ruin Sue? Besides, y'know, the whole dying thing?

[Dominic]

Okay, here is a massively insensitive remark:

Sue was ruined by having a rape back-written in. The whole point of Sue Dibny is that she was competent and useful. Lois Lane and Steve Trevor did not get to hang out with the Justice League, or even know most of their names. Sue got to see the HQ, know the names of the team, and go along for the adventures because she was solid and reliable.

Then, along comes Brad Meltzer, and Sue is back-written as being every other dead-weight cannon-fodder family member of pretty much any 90s hero. Having he lose a fight with Doctor Light makes her a joke as much as Speedy in terms of being a (once good) character that I just cannot take seriously.

Dom
-really does not care how insensitive that remark is.

[138 Scourge]

I suppose the fact that Doctor Light controlled light, which makes him fairly powerful, doesn't count for much in this argument?

Now, my problem with the whole thing is that it says "Oh, yes, Doctor Light, the borderline joke villain that fought the Titans? Yeah, he's actually a serial rapist." That's right up there with "Oh, Black Hand? Yeah, necrophiliac that can resurrect the dead." or, I dunno, "Speedball? Nowadays, he's wearing a spiky suit that stabs him because hurting himself gives him powers".

God damn it, none of this shit if from the nineties, but it really seems like it oughtta be, doesn't it?

So next up I'm sure we can assume we'll get "Gizmo, the lil' genius guy from the Fearsome Five? Refrigerator full of dead Filipino boys."? It just feels like these guys are embarrassed to be writing about people in skintight suits beating on each other, so they gotta add in all this grittiness so they can be all "Look, superheroes can be so grown-up and sophisticated!"

[Onslaught Six]

It's worse than the 90s, who gave us characters who made up for their spandex with POUCHES and SHOULDERPADS. And pouches on shoulderpads.

[Dominic]

I suppose the fact that Doctor Light controlled light, which makes him fairly powerful, doesn't count for much in this argument?

In story, the whole point of Sue Dibny is that she was competent enough to handle herself around super-humans, and that would include guys like Doctor Light.

At a meta-level, Light was arguably ruined as well. Of course, it matters less because his character type was more common, making him less important.

It is not a question of me loving Sue of Light. But, their use as characters has been diminished considerably by Meltzer. In some cases, killing or changing a character can make them more useful. Barry Allen *was* a text-book case of this.

I know people who snicker and guffaw when Dibny is mentioned. She is down there with Northstar and Speedy.

Nick
-still wants to see Catman go after Speedy, but that will not happen.

[Shockwave]

I suppose the fact that Doctor Light controlled light, which makes him fairly powerful, doesn't count for much in this argument?

In story, the whole point of Sue Dibny is that she was competent enough to handle herself around super-humans, and that would include guys like Doctor Light.

At a meta-level, Light was arguably ruined as well. Of course, it matters less because his character type was more common, making him less important.

It is not a question of me loving Sue of Light. But, their use as characters has been diminished considerably by Meltzer. In some cases, killing or changing a character can make them more useful. Barry Allen *was* a text-book case of this.

I know people who snicker and guffaw when Dibny is mentioned. She is down there with Northstar and Speedy.

Nick
-still wants to see Catman go after Speedy, but that will not happen.

This sounds like a case proving my point in the AHM thread. Some asshole writer had to make a larger point and wound up fucking up the characters he was using in the process. Way to go jerk. This is why I maintain that fiction should be CHARACTER driven, not POINT driven.