All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

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Dominic
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Re: All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

Post by Dominic »

Not to mention Megatron's comments about 'weeding out the infighting and dissension'. The evidence suggests Megatron had an alternative motive here.
Uh, it is possible to weed out infighting and dissent and remolding and army without having a purge. Getting everybody on your side, (with a spectacular show of violence against a commonly disliked party), is more cost effective and less damaging to morale than killing a large number of troops.

This makes more sense than "Megatron is going to kill a bunch of his doods cuz he is eval omfg".
Megatron wouldn't need to go through the theatrics just to shatter that last hope. And why doesn't Megatron's troops even appear know he has spy's among the human military?
It is not just about shattering human hope, it is about having a laugh with "the boys". The army that laughs together stays together.

The Autobots have Kup, Jazz and Prowl step up leading the Autobots. But given the circumstances, they really don't have much they can do, other than trying to keep the troops busy and getting Prime back on his feet. The Decepticons are given direction in terms of conquering Earth, but this isn't enough for them, and it's seemingly by design Megatron does this.
Kup, Jazz and Prowl are doing a lack-luster job. Kup does the best job of the 3....because the troops like him. But, even he does not have the presence of Optimus Prime.

Megatron screwed up when he chose Earth. That is part of the story.


Dom
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Sparky Prime
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Re: All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

Post by Sparky Prime »

Dominic wrote:Uh, it is possible to weed out infighting and dissent and remolding and army without having a purge. Getting everybody on your side, (with a spectacular show of violence against a commonly disliked party), is more cost effective and less damaging to morale than killing a large number of troops.

This makes more sense than "Megatron is going to kill a bunch of his doods cuz he is eval omfg".
Again, I agree getting everyone on your side would be more effective. However, as I said to this before, getting everyone on your side seems like more of an 'Autobot' approach to a problem and this is the Decepticons we're talking about. Clearly Megatron isn't above killing troops to solve problems with troops who don't want to stay in line, as we see in Infiltration #6, Megatron wasn't very concerned if Starscream lived or died after his 'punishment' and in Spotlight: Ramjet, Megatron rips Ramjet to pieces (and is scattered all over the place) for his plot to conquer. This story is no different, only on a larger scale.
It is not just about shattering human hope, it is about having a laugh with "the boys". The army that laughs together stays together.
And you think Megatron taking out some his own troops (who are rebelling at the time) with a nuke seems convoluted? Seriously, this is way too much effort to just 'have a laugh with "the boys"'.
Kup, Jazz and Prowl are doing a lack-luster job. Kup does the best job of the 3....because the troops like him. But, even he does not have the presence of Optimus Prime.
Lack-luster job or not, they're still providing the Autobots with leadership in Prime's absence. It's a hard situation and they do the best they can under the circumstances.
Megatron screwed up when he chose Earth. That is part of the story.

Again, you're going on the assumption Megatron didn't plan for it to happen that way. I maintain that was part of his plot all along, which makes it a very different story.
-tries not to blame on conspiracy what can be explained by ineptitude. (Rumsfeld.)
"It's one last fatal scene, Brought on by, Someone unseen, Moving on their own" - Conspiracy of One by The Offspring.
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Re: All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

Post by Shockwave »

One of Dom's points is that troops on both sides were bored and needed something to do. Granted, the similarity between the two groups ends there since they are in different situations and their leadership is reacting very differently.
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Sparky Prime
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Re: All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

Post by Sparky Prime »

Shockwave wrote:One of Dom's points is that troops on both sides were bored and needed something to do.
Which is a point I don't really agree with. For the Autobot's it isn't that they're bored but rather needed to be preoccupied so they didn't completely focus on on how bad the situation was. For the Decepticons, they weren't bored or needed something immediately after they'd just defeated the Autobots. Their boredom came later, when Earth didn't present much of a challenge. But that's not to say couldn't have done more elsewhere. By keeping them on Earth, Megatron was holding them back.
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Shockwave
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Re: All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

Post by Shockwave »

Sparky Prime wrote:
Shockwave wrote:One of Dom's points is that troops on both sides were bored and needed something to do.
Which is a point I don't really agree with. For the Autobot's it isn't that they're bored but rather needed to be preoccupied so they didn't completely focus on on how bad the situation was. For the Decepticons, they weren't bored or needed something immediately after they'd just defeated the Autobots. Their boredom came later, when Earth didn't present much of a challenge. But that's not to say couldn't have done more elsewhere. By keeping them on Earth, Megatron was holding them back.
But they both still needed something to do. Granted, the similarities end there, for all the reasons you mentioned.
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Re: All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

Post by Dominic »

The similarities between the Autobots and Decepticons are also thematic. In this case, theu have a lack of direction, either because they have nothing to do or no way to do anything.


As I said above, there is more than one way to eliminate dissent. Killing dissenters is one way. Getting everybody on one side is another. The latter would be a better choice, given the fragile state the Decepticons were in.

Megatron killing his own troops bevause he is a bad guy Decepticon would work in the old cartoon. But, McCarthy was writing above that level. Megatron may not be a nice guy, but he is not a lunatic. He may not be as rational as Shockwave, but that does not make him a homicidal maniac.

If nothing else, Megatron would need to be careful with the fratricide card at the point AHM is set. If nothing else, fostering Decepticon on Decepticon violence would likely destry everyrthing Megatron had built. (So, what does a radical labor leader do when he has ousted the corrupt power structure?)

The political and morale costs of killing his own troops, or letting dissent go unchecked, would be to high. (Again, Megatron screwed up by letting them idle on Earth for so long.)

The situations with Starscream and Ramjet were different. They were both acting completely out of order, not the least of that being that they were scheming behind Megatron's back when they should have been working on other things.. In the case of Ramjet, not only did he screw up on something big recently, but nobody even liked him. If anything, killing Ramjet would be a win.

Dom
-morbidly wonders how this would have played out in a BotCon comic.
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Sparky Prime
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Re: All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

Post by Sparky Prime »

Dominic wrote:As I said above, there is more than one way to eliminate dissent. Killing dissenters is one way. Getting everybody on one side is another. The latter would be a better choice, given the fragile state the Decepticons were in.
And as I've said a few times, given the evidence from the story, clearly Megatron wasn't going for the "come on now guys, let's be one big happy Decepticon family" approach. His portrayal in the IDW continuity has always been more... action oriented. And the Decepticons were hardly in a "fragile" state. They were on top of the world for their defeat over the Autobots.
Megatron killing his own troops bevause he is a bad guy Decepticon would work in the old cartoon. But, McCarthy was writing above that level. Megatron may not be a nice guy, but he is not a lunatic. He may not be as rational as Shockwave, but that does not make him a homicidal maniac.
McCarthy was certainly not writing above that level. Seriously, look at what the Decepticons were doing in this story. Attacking a relatively defenseless planet, with no real reason or purpose given behind the attack. This is not a rational strategy if there is nothing to be gained from it and shows the Decepticons were most certainly cast as homicidal maniacs by the actions and enjoyment they got out of it (for a time at least). And again, this Megatron isn't above killing his own troops who step out of line.
If nothing else, Megatron would need to be careful with the fratricide card at the point AHM is set. If nothing else, fostering Decepticon on Decepticon violence would likely destry everyrthing Megatron had built. (So, what does a radical labor leader do when he has ousted the corrupt power structure?)
You seem to keep ignoring the fact Megatron himself says in AHM that he is trying to kill this incredibly ruthless army he built in order to remake them into the force he originally intended them to be. No infighting, no dissent, only "perfectly controlled peace through unparalleled strength".
The political and morale costs of killing his own troops, or letting dissent go unchecked, would be to high. (Again, Megatron screwed up by letting them idle on Earth for so long.)
Again, your assuming idling that long on Earth wasn't part of Megatron's plan. And again, Megatron was leading them to believe the humans were going to nuke them, which was true, although he was leaving out the part that one of their own had confiscated the nuke. Had the Autobots not interfered, and Megatron allowed to continue his plot, I think the Decepticons would have been more motivated than ever before to conquer Earth and believe even more in Megatron's leadership. The only downside being he may have had to sacrifice a few dissenting Decepticons to accomplish it.
The situations with Starscream and Ramjet were different. They were both acting completely out of order, not the least of that being that they were scheming behind Megatron's back when they should have been working on other things.. In the case of Ramjet, not only did he screw up on something big recently, but nobody even liked him. If anything, killing Ramjet would be a win.
How are those situations different? They were both plotting to overthrow Megatron, rebelling against his authority as Decepticon leader. AHM is only different in that it wasn't just one 'bot Megatron needed to put back in place but the situation is essentially the same. Rebellion against his leadership. In those cases, Megatron brutally reminded them why he is leader, nearly killing Starscream and seemingly killing Ramjet. Why would this situation be any different?
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Re: All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

Post by Shockwave »

I was actually somewhat dissapointed that the nuke didn't drop. Stupid Thundercracker.
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Re: All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

Post by andersonh1 »

I posted links to the preview for issue #16 on the front page. Not too impressed so far. I hope the actual story turns out to be considerably better than Spike lying around in traction with scantily clad nurses oogling him. I hope all of that was meant to be tongue in cheek.

I think the issue is out Wednesday, so we'll know soon enough.
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Re: All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

Post by Shockwave »

I don't really care about the Spike story at all, I'm just curious about the Bumblebee story.
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