All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

[Dominic]

How so? McCarthy writes Megatron as making mistakes. This is not a case of the writer writing a character to be smarter then they are.

[Shockwave]

How so? McCarthy writes Megatron as making mistakes. This is not a case of the writer writing a character to be smarter then they are.

Exactly. And I think this was one of Sparky's points at some point is that Megs and Prime are supposed to be smarter than McCarthy is writing them. They're supposed to be these iconic military geniuses, but characters can only be as intelligent as the writer writing them. Clearly McCarthy isn't a military genius so it's obviously hard for him to write a character that is.

[Sparky Prime]

Megatron is clearly suprised by the scale of the revolt. He expects some of the troops to go with Starscream. But, Megatron does not really exactly how bad things are until the Constructicons step out.

A better way to weed out the infighting is to get everybody on the same side.

I agree, getting everybody on the same side would be a better solution. But that's not a very 'Decepticon' approach is it? And clearly, that wasn't how Megatron was handling the situation.

And I think this was one of Sparky's points at some point is that Megs and Prime are supposed to be smarter than McCarthy is writing them.

Yes, I've said that a couple times about Megatron in-particular.

Nuking the city would be a symbolic gesture. At the end of the day, attacking NYC was symbolic. In the first issue, when Starscream claims to be the biggest bad-arse, Megatron steps in and proves he is a bigger bad ass. Nuking a city would be consistent with that. It is the scale, rather then the utility, of the destruction that counts here.

So you're saying that Megatron's plan to nuke the city was to further show how "bad-arse" he is? How out of character. As Megatron is fond of pointing out in this continuity, he *is* a weapon, and he has always used his *own* power to show how "bad-arse" he is, as he did at the beginning of this story, and again when he single handily faced off against Devastator. And you seem to keep ignoring the fact that "Tankor" is secretly carrying the nuke, keeping up a facade that it was the humans alone carrying out the operation. If Megatron was truely going to make a symbolic gesture of it, why would he carry out the operation in such a manner? That doesn't make any sense. Unless he *wants* his troops to think it was the humans alone behind it. But in that case, it wouldn't be Megatron's symbolic gesture at all. Again, it seems more likely Megatron was planning on taking out some of his own troops and pinning the blame on the humans.

The Autobots and Decepticons being aimless is a thematic thing. In the case of the Autobots, there is little they can practically do. In the case of the Decepticons, they just do not have much to do.

I don't see why you keep bringing this up. Again, the Autobots were in a desperate situation, doing what they could. The Decepticons were held back intentionally by Megatron's designs.

[Dominic]

Clearly McCarthy isn't a military genius so it's obviously hard for him to write a character that is.

McCarthy is not a military genius, in contrast to Simon "Sun Tzu" Furman or Chris "Clausewitz" Mowry?

Megatron makes the sort of mistakes real leaders make and have made.

As Megatron is fond of pointing out in this continuity, he *is* a weapon, and he has always used his *own* power to show how "bad-arse" he is, as he did at the beginning of this story, and again when he single handily faced off against Devastator. And you seem to keep ignoring the fact that "Tankor" is secretly carrying the nuke, keeping up a facade that it was the humans alone carrying out the operation.

IDW Megatron also has no problem deploying a guy like Sixshot. And, having a city wiped out is going to resonate wth the troops regardless of exactly how it is done and by who.

Megatron having Octankor, (or whatever his name is), carrying the bomb for much the same reason that he had that recolor "Cybertron" mold guy hiding out as a tank. He was seeding the human armies with troops. Whatsisname, (Dropshot was it?), implies that there are more Decepticons around than just the 1984-85 guys.

Megatron does not try to hide Whatankever's presence from the troops, as he radio's Ocawhatsis in front of everybody, and specifies that Whatane is carrying a bomb. If nothing else, having the bomb fall on the city would be intended as a pyrotechnic display to wow the troops, and slap the humans in the face.

(Plenty of the Decepticon violence in AHM is petulance. Megatron giving his troops a spectacle would make political sense. He might not actually care about the humans, but being able to say "heeheehee, look what I made them think they did" would be worth some political points.)

I don't see why you keep bringing this up. Again, the Autobots were in a desperate situation, doing what they could. The Decepticons were held back intentionally by Megatron's designs.

As AHM is a work of fiction, it makes sense to look for recurring ideas and themes. I brought up the Autobots as an example of this idea.


Dom
-not sure why we just assume Megatron is being written like a bad cartoon bad guy.

[Shockwave]

Clearly McCarthy isn't a military genius so it's obviously hard for him to write a character that is.

McCarthy is not a military genius, in contrast to Simon "Sun Tzu" Furman or Chris "Clausewitz" Mowry?

Megatron makes the sort of mistakes real leaders make and have made.

As Megatron is fond of pointing out in this continuity, he *is* a weapon, and he has always used his *own* power to show how "bad-arse" he is, as he did at the beginning of this story, and again when he single handily faced off against Devastator. And you seem to keep ignoring the fact that "Tankor" is secretly carrying the nuke, keeping up a facade that it was the humans alone carrying out the operation.

IDW Megatron also has no problem deploying a guy like Sixshot. And, having a city wiped out is going to resonate wth the troops regardless of exactly how it is done and by who.

Megatron having Octankor, (or whatever his name is), carrying the bomb for much the same reason that he had that recolor "Cybertron" mold guy hiding out as a tank. He was seeding the human armies with troops. Whatsisname, (Dropshot was it?), implies that there are more Decepticons around than just the 1984-85 guys.

Megatron does not try to hide Whatankever's presence from the troops, as he radio's Ocawhatsis in front of everybody, and specifies that Whatane is carrying a bomb. If nothing else, having the bomb fall on the city would be intended as a pyrotechnic display to wow the troops, and slap the humans in the face.

(Plenty of the Decepticon violence in AHM is petulance. Megatron giving his troops a spectacle would make political sense. He might not actually care about the humans, but being able to say "heeheehee, look what I made them think they did" would be worth some political points.)

I don't see why you keep bringing this up. Again, the Autobots were in a desperate situation, doing what they could. The Decepticons were held back intentionally by Megatron's designs.

As AHM is a work of fiction, it makes sense to look for recurring ideas and themes. I brought up the Autobots as an example of this idea.


Dom
-not sure why we just assume Megatron is being written like a bad cartoon bad guy.

This has to be one of the funniest posts I've ever read!

[Sparky Prime]

IDW Megatron also has no problem deploying a guy like Sixshot. And, having a city wiped out is going to resonate wth the troops regardless of exactly how it is done and by who.

Deploying Sixshot had nothing to with Megatron proving how "bad-arse" he is. That was Megatron attempting to expedite conquering Earth by calling Sixshot in early according to the Infiltration Protocols. And whoever it is that wipes out a city would certainly matter to the troops just as much as the event would resonate with them.

Megatron having Octankor, (or whatever his name is), carrying the bomb for much the same reason that he had that recolor "Cybertron" mold guy hiding out as a tank. He was seeding the human armies with troops. Whatsisname, (Dropshot was it?), implies that there are more Decepticons around than just the 1984-85 guys.

Having his troops spying and reporting back on human military efforts is one thing. Having one of them fly a nuclear bomb all the way to New York while maintaining the facade until the moment he gives the order to drop the bomb? That implies something else.

Megatron does not try to hide Whatankever's presence from the troops, as he radio's Ocawhatsis in front of everybody, and specifies that Whatane is carrying a bomb.

Megatron didn't radio "Tankor" in front of everybody until AFTER the Autobots arrived and effectively ruined whatever he had planned. Clearly by that point, he had no need to keep up the facade anymore and decided to try and use the nuke against the Autobots instead.

Also, when the humans began their last attack, Starscream had no idea what was going on. Megatron gives him some of the details, to which Starscream is surprised Megatron knew the attack was coming at all, suggesting he didn't even know Megatron has spy's among the human military. And Megatron does neglect to tell Starscream how he knew it was coming or that he had one of their own carrying the nuke. Clearly Megatron was withholding information from his troops.

As AHM is a work of fiction, it makes sense to look for recurring ideas and themes. I brought up the Autobots as an example of this idea.

No, I meant how you keep trying to represent the Autobots and Decepticons as having the same problem when clearly the situations and circumstances are completely different leading to very different problems for the two groups.

-not sure why we just assume Megatron is being written like a bad cartoon bad guy.

Assume? No, that's just how McCarthy portrays Megatron.

[Dominic]

Deploying Sixshot had nothing to with Megatron proving how "bad-arse" he is. That was Megatron attempting to expedite conquering Earth by calling Sixshot in early according to the Infiltration Protocols. And whoever it is that wipes out a city would certainly matter to the troops just as much as the event would resonate with them.

Having a city go "kablamo" is going to resonate with the troops. It would be a spectacular display, regardless of exactly who blew the city up or how. Megatron would still be ordering it, and thus be the one who made it happen.

Megatron didn't radio "Tankor" in front of everybody until AFTER the Autobots arrived and effectively ruined whatever he had planned. Clearly by that point, he had no need to keep up the facade anymore and decided to try and use the nuke against the Autobots instead.

Ya know, I just call him "Octane" out of habit, not unlike when I call Silverstreak "Bluestreak". I do not pretend that the old names are more valid. But, I will claim habit. Heck, during the Unicron Trilogy, I sometimes used Japanese names as some of them were just easier to remember.


As for dropping the bomb and giving a "heads=up": Blowing up the city, during the human attack, and having his troops get out, would have been a blow to human morale, and a nice little "we showed them" moment for Megatron and co. If nothing else, it would have been a nice "cookies and ice -cream" st yle suprise for the troops. "Hey guys, I have a special treat for you! See that city? Just watch. Ohhhhhhhh! Wow! Wasn;t that fun?" Then, the Decepticons would say, "Yay! Again!"

No, I meant how you keep trying to represent the Autobots and Decepticons as having the same problem when clearly the situations and circumstances are completely different leading to very different problems for the two groups.

Both sides have a lack of leadership and direction.

Assume? No, that's just how McCarthy portrays Megatron.

You are the one assuming convoluted plans for Megatron, rather than a more basic "gotta keep things together" motive.

Dom

[Onslaught Six]

Ya know, I just call him "Octane" out of habit, not unlike when I call Silverstreak "Bluestreak". I do not pretend that the old names are more valid. But, I will claim habit. Heck, during the Unicron Trilogy, I sometimes used Japanese names as some of them were just easier to remember.

I always go with whatever name I like better. This is especially screwy when it comes to RID--I will refer to Speedbreaker and X-Brawn in the same sentence, as if the two name conventions don't even bother me.

[Shockwave]

Ya know, I just call him "Octane" out of habit, not unlike when I call Silverstreak "Bluestreak". I do not pretend that the old names are more valid. But, I will claim habit. Heck, during the Unicron Trilogy, I sometimes used Japanese names as some of them were just easier to remember.

I always go with whatever name I like better. This is especially screwy when it comes to RID--I will refer to Speedbreaker and X-Brawn in the same sentence, as if the two name conventions don't even bother me.

I can see that with Japanese vs. US names, doesn't bother me at all. I refuse point black to use the new names in situations where you know damn well Hasbro wanted to use the original and just lost the rights. For me this especially true of Bluestreak. I flat out refuse to call him anything else. Having said that, Shockblast doesn't really bug me. Especially on the Alts version where it still says Shockwave on his license plate.

[Sparky Prime]

Having a city go "kablamo" is going to resonate with the troops. It would be a spectacular display, regardless of exactly who blew the city up or how. Megatron would still be ordering it, and thus be the one who made it happen.

You said that already and you're still missing the point. Again, the troops would care who actually carried it out. And if the Autobots hadn't interfered, would Megatron's troops have known who ordered it? We saw he was withholding information from his troops. And why keep up the facade Octane was one of the human planes until the last second? As I've said, it appears Megatron wanted them to think the humans were going to nuke them.

As for dropping the bomb and giving a "heads=up": Blowing up the city, during the human attack, and having his troops get out, would have been a blow to human morale, and a nice little "we showed them" moment for Megatron and co. If nothing else, it would have been a nice "cookies and ice -cream" st yle suprise for the troops. "Hey guys, I have a special treat for you! See that city? Just watch. Ohhhhhhhh! Wow! Wasn;t that fun?" Then, the Decepticons would say, "Yay! Again!"

The idea Megatron would nuke a city as just 'surprise fireworks' for the troops and go to those lengths just to strike another blow to the humans morale is utterly ridiculous. This was the last effort by the humans. Megatron wouldn't need to go through the theatrics just to shatter that last hope. And why doesn't Megatron's troops even appear know he has spy's among the human military? Why does he have Octane maintain the facade of being a human plane until the last possible second? Not to mention Megatron's comments about 'weeding out the infighting and dissension'. The evidence suggests Megatron had an alternative motive here.

Both sides have a lack of leadership and direction.

I don't agree. The Autobots have Kup, Jazz and Prowl step up leading the Autobots. But given the circumstances, they really don't have much they can do, other than trying to keep the troops busy and getting Prime back on his feet. The Decepticons are given direction in terms of conquering Earth, but this isn't enough for them, and it's seemingly by design Megatron does this.

You are the one assuming convoluted plans for Megatron, rather than a more basic "gotta keep things together" motive.

Again with the assuming? No, I'm taking what the story gives us and based on that evidence, following it to the logical conclusion. You're the one assuming that Megatron's plan consists of nothing more than "gotta keep things together", when in fact we know that isn't correct. He tells Starscream he wants to 'remold' the Decepticon army into what he originally intended them to be. He can't do that by just "keeping things together".