All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

[Onslaught Six]

Ah who cares anymore. What enjoyment I got out of the book has (almost) been spoilt by this entire discussion.

[Shockwave]

Ah who cares anymore. What enjoyment I got out of the book has (almost) been spoilt by this entire discussion.

What you said. I was there a couple of conversations ago. Seriously, if I never hear the words Starscream and the Matrix in the same sentence again it'll be too effing soon.

Shockwave
-Hopes that story will get resolved in some implied comment referrencing it as something that happened "offscreen".

[Sparky Prime]

Ah who cares anymore. What enjoyment I got out of the book has (almost) been spoilt by this entire discussion.

No one said you had to read the entire discussion. And why even comment at all if you are just going to whine about the discussion being had? You could try shifting the course of the discussion to other subject matters on the topic if you don't like what's being discussed ya'know.

[Dominic]

I would count potential trouble from the Decepticon troops as a flaw in Megatron's plan. He seemed a bit taken aback by the rebellion im issue 10, if only the timing of it. Megatron's plan was not perfect. If nothing else, he probably did not mean to get shot in the head.

But, he may also have correctly figured that his guys would be happy to be kept busy, if only for a while, than to carry out a coup. (He was sorta right.)

Hunting Autobots would not be immediately gratifying for the troops. Heck, it might just make them more bored and annoyed. Megatron was likely assuming they would be happier blowing up stuff and killing stuff than hunting.


A better analogy for this sort of thing than "Star Wars" would be actual counter-insurgencies.

Spectacular operations like northern Syria in '82 or Indonesia in recent years are rare. Mostly, the insurgents cause some destruction, but rarely score major blows. (Of course, this was before suitcase nukes were a prospect.) The IRA, PLO, or FARC are/were dangerous more to civilians than military targets. Military ops are expensive, and spectacular victories are rare. (And, spectacular victories are politically expedient.)

Even if IDW Autobots would attack civilians, it would not be a dire imediate threat to the Decepticons. And, the Autobots would have to expose themselves while attacking.

Hunting them specifically would be unsatisfying.


Dom
-ditto on Sparky's above post.

[Sparky Prime]

I would count potential trouble from the Decepticon troops as a flaw in Megatron's plan. He seemed a bit taken aback by the rebellion im issue 10, if only the timing of it. Megatron's plan was not perfect. If nothing else, he probably did not mean to get shot in the head.

The Autobots showing up and the humans having a weapon that could actually do some damage were clearly the only two things that actually surprised Megatron. Megatron had been anticipating Starscream to "pick sides" (given he had spies tailing him) one of which would lead Starscream and his supporters into a rebellion.

Hunting Autobots would not be immediately gratifying for the troops. Heck, it might just make them more bored and annoyed. Megatron was likely assuming they would be happier blowing up stuff and killing stuff than hunting.

I don't agree. With the Autobots on the run and the Decepticon general mindset, they Decepticons would probably find a perverse pleasure in hunting down and finishing off their bitter rivals in this long terrible war once and for all. I'd also think they would actually be eager to start on such a mission if it meant the end of the Autobots once and for all as well.

A better analogy for this sort of thing than "Star Wars" would be actual counter-insurgencies.

Again, I don't agree. While the specific counter-insurgencies you refer to might only rarely score major blows, that does not mean the same would be true for every counter-insurgence force, and in fact is not true for every situation. Either way though, I'm referring more to the general idea that a smaller weaker force could still resist and over come a larger more powerful enemy.

Hunting them specifically would be unsatisfying.

When they've been satisfied being at war with them for millions of years? I don't buy that.

[Dominic]

The Autobots showing up and the humans having a weapon that could actually do some damage were clearly the only two things that actually surprised Megatron. Megatron had been anticipating Starscream to "pick sides" (given he had spies tailing him) one of which would lead Starscream and his supporters into a rebellion.

In issue 10, Megatron seems a bit suprised by the scale and speed of the rebellion. He may have expected it, but he did not think it would be *that* bad. Much of his "I planned for this" talk struck me as the kid who wipes out on his bike saying, "I meant to do that."

I don't agree. With the Autobots on the run and the Decepticon general mindset, they Decepticons would probably find a perverse pleasure in hunting down and finishing off their bitter rivals in this long terrible war once and for all. I'd also think they would actually be eager to start on such a mission if it meant the end of the Autobots once and for all as well.

It would only be fun if they were actually finding and killing Autobots. But, spending huge amounts of time hunting, but not necessarily finding, Autobots would get very annoying, very quickly. Think about any long term project you have worked on. If you do not see some results quickly, you either give up, or you get annoyed. (Witness my search for a new job to replace the one I am at now...the one I cannot even pretend I care about. Wow, I should care more than I do...even more than I might pretend to.)

It might sound like fun to hunt them down, but actually doing it is another matter.

When they've been satisfied being at war with them for millions of years? I don't buy that.

The war kept them occupied. Tbe whole point of AHM is that once they win, they have nothing to do. Thundercracker has to consider those uncomfortable doubts of his. Skywarp has to wonder why it just is not fun any more. Reflector is reduced to breaking his new toys, and being sad that it just is not fun. Astrotrain is doing the same stupid, tedious, thing over and over and over.

Either way though, I'm referring more to the general idea that a smaller weaker force could still resist and over come a larger more powerful enemy.

In practical terms though, the smaller force is trying to wear down the larger enemy's fortitude as much as their infrastructure. England lost to the IRA because the English lost their stomach for dealing with them. (Pressure from a too_IRA friendly US did not help things either.) Along similar lines, if the larger force is lumbering and foolish, a smaller force can win.

But substantial victories by smaller forces are as much a function of operational consent from the larger force than any real skill by the smaller force.


Dom
-should probably head over to monster....

[Shockwave]

Ah who cares anymore. What enjoyment I got out of the book has (almost) been spoilt by this entire discussion.

No one said you had to read the entire discussion. And why even comment at all if you are just going to whine about the discussion being had? You could try shifting the course of the discussion to other subject matters on the topic if you don't like what's being discussed ya'know.

Because it's a free internet and we have the right to whine.

[Sparky Prime]

In issue 10, Megatron seems a bit suprised by the scale and speed of the rebellion. He may have expected it, but he did not think it would be *that* bad. Much of his "I planned for this" talk struck me as the kid who wipes out on his bike saying, "I meant to do that."

I don't see it. Seemed to me he had expected it and was ready for it given his "bring it on" attitude toward the whole thing.

It would only be fun if they were actually finding and killing Autobots. But, spending huge amounts of time hunting, but not necessarily finding, Autobots would get very annoying, very quickly. Think about any long term project you have worked on. If you do not see some results quickly, you either give up, or you get annoyed. (Witness my search for a new job to replace the one I am at now...the one I cannot even pretend I care about. Wow, I should care more than I do...even more than I might pretend to.)

It might sound like fun to hunt them down, but actually doing it is another matter.

The Decepticons should be used to long term projects by now given their Infiltration Protocols were a drawn out process that were supposed to take several years with each phase. Have you ever gone hunting, as in hunting animals? I'll admit I haven't although several friends and family of mine have. It's a very hands on process, and nothing like hunting for a job at all. Granted it can be frustrating if your prey eludes you, but that also makes it more exciting when you do finally find them. I think the Decepticons would enjoy it regardless if it took some time to track the Autobots down first.

The war kept them occupied. Tbe whole point of AHM is that once they win, they have nothing to do.

Like I've said over and over again, conquering Earth like that lacked any challenge for the Decepticons. However, there were plenty of other tasks Megatron could have given them that actually would have occupied them. Again, it was clear Megatron did have plans post war, but he wasn't utilizing those plans or his army in a productive way. If that's supposed to be the point of AHM, it was pretty pointless.

In practical terms though, the smaller force is trying to wear down the larger enemy's fortitude as much as their infrastructure.

What does that matter? In practical terms, a smaller force can still defeat a larger enemy if they use a strategy that works. Look at the American Revolution or Vietnam as examples. In both of those situations, it was relatively small, weak forces taking on what essentially was the worlds most powerful armies and actually succeeding in repelling those superior armies.

Because it's a free internet and we have the right to whine.

Indeed. Doesn't change that it's not necessary.

[Dominic]

I do not hunt. While I am not conceptually agaimst violence, I have never been comfortable with game hunting. (And, given that I am trying to be a vegetarian, I am less so now.

As far as the analogy goes, there are accounts of hunters shooting their own dogs out of boredom after not finding/killing anything for a bit. (Franted, these accounts were in animal rights mags I read years ago. But, I can definitely comprehend it happening.)

The infiltration protocols would be easier to sell as part of a routine war effort. (Yes, they were to take over planets. But, one reason for the take-over efforts would be the war with the Autobots.


Megatron having a flawed plan is (part of) the point of AHM. (Think of it as a more mature take on the idea from an old UK story (that I forget the name of), where the Autobors won and fractured. Megatron is trying, and failing, to give his troops spmething to do. When they do finally rebel, as seen in issue 10, Megatron has to put on a brave face. He cannot really say, "awww, guys, c'mon....". Well, he could try, but it would likely not go too well for him. He has to put a brave face on it.

And, that is more interesting and shows more insight than any Magnificent Cosmic McGuffin.

Dom

[Dominic]

double post:

The examples above of smaller forces defeating larger ones are also exanple of larger forces being hobbled by ineptitude and/or fragile supply lines. In both cases, the smaller force had an outside patron, (France or the Soviets), offering supplies and political support.

And, in neither case did the small force make itself a threat to the main territory of the larger power.

Dom-double post.