The Spoileriffic Movie Discussion Thread

[onslaught86]

It's here, it's been a long time in the making, and now it's time to talk about it. I went to the premiere showing of ROTF here last night, and have assorted thoughts.

may have ruined it for myself by reading the comic adaptation first, but only because the comic was BETTER, argh. Cut two essential scenes from the end that ruined it for me.

Spoilers, spoilers, really obviously going to be spoilers here, yarr, here be spoilers, it's the movie discussion thread, no excuse not to go see it now anyway.













- The first 2/3 are great, the 3rd was a big let-down. Movie drags a bit, lots of slow-mo and filler scenes.

- Lots of clear cutting between SFX shots and regular shots, which is jarring - the robots all make incidental ambient whirs and beeps and such, which disappear entirely when the camera's not on them.

- No closure to ANYTHING AT ALL. Plot, what plot? Look, explosions, whee.

- Fight scenes were pretty snazzy, well choreographed. Prime was especially brutal, and the flip-out hooks were neat.

- Some great smaller roles here, and some did steal the show. I loved Wheelie, very much a midget Joe Pesci there, and Jetfire was fantastic fun, just wish he'd had more screen-time. Doctor Scalpel gets a lot of love from me as well. KEEL ZE LEETLE VUN.

- Devastator just sucked, how underwhelming.

- Fallen wasn't a threat at all, after all their harping on about how only a Prime could kill him, Prime just..killed him. Nothing special, no indication he could do anything anyone else couldn't. Contrast with him stuffing Fallen into another dimension using the power of the Matrix in the comics.

- Speaking of, Prime SHOOTS the Matrix, and nothing is mentioned again.

- Nor is anything mentioned about the allspark shards used to revive Megatron and Jetfire.

- Megs himself was kinda underwhelming and seemed a bit less effective in his fight scenes than I'd have liked, but he thoroughly made up for this through excellent interactions with Starscream, which mended many small hurts. Beating Starscream with his own arm did amuse.

- Jolt was clearly added in post-production.

- The fight in the forest was great, definitely would've liked to see more of that type of action. Out in the open, less scenery to cover the costly CG with, heh.

- No Barricade, no explanation for Grindor being blatantly Blackout. Bonecrusher gets a vehicle cameo, that was neat.

- The Twins I found surprisingly inoffensive. They weren't great, but they weren't as horrible as I'd expected either. It's a shame they felt the need to design them..that way.

- Soundwave I did enjoy, Ravage too. Shame they didn't vocode Sounds' voice, since he's just Doctor Claw otherwise. Ah well, take what I can get.

Thassabout it. Movie was fun, but unsatisfying. I want to buy toys. Which is, I suppose, the purpose of the exercise. I've not followed any movie to the extent I've followed TF, reading up on so many little tidbits of info and so much development that it's a little strange to think it's over and I'ves seen it now. Ah well. Worth the watch, will see it again. Worth doing so on the big screen, too - just sit back and try to work out what happens in the dust-ridden battles.


RAMPAGE IS RED.

[Sparky Prime]

Overall, I enjoyed it. Still room for improvement, but I thought it was better than the first. Certainly a good action flick.

I noticed that many Decepticon forms got reused. Demolishor is actually killed by Prime at the beginning, and another identical Decepticon is used to form Devastator later. Rampage was killed for spare parts for Megatron, and another was killed by Bumblebee and yet another was part of Devastator. There also appeared to be a second Mix Master and Long Haul fighting while Devastator was eating the pyramid. Not to mention several identical Decepticon protoform's used as cannon fodder. And Blackout, although he appeared to at least have a different head.

Certainly still needs more development on many Transformers characters. Most Decepticons go un-named and have no lines, even in Cybertronian. All Sideways did was run (mainly in vehicle mode) and get killed. Even on the Autobot side, we hardly see much of Sideswipe, the 3 Arcee's and Jolt or even the veterans, Ironhide and Ratchet.

Loved seeing (and hearing, even with out the vocode) Soundwave. And rather than do things himself, he sends Ravage which I thought worked out well.

Adding the Matrix to the movieverse was interesting. Although I'd agree, Prime just shooting it in the device and not mentioning it again was a waste. Not to mention how Prime just crushes the Fallen's spark. With how much they hyped "Only a Prime" can kill him, would have thought there would have been more to it.

- No closure to ANYTHING AT ALL. Plot, what plot?

I wouldn't say there as no closure to anything, but I'd agree they could have spent more time wrapping up some stuff.

[Mirage]

I loved it.

I can't believe the negative reactions I've heard, from the bona fide critics it's one thing, but a lot of the word of mouth I heard going in was terrible as well. I tried to go in with even expectations, and I was actually really impressed. My wife and I actually laughed at most of the jokes, cringed at a few (what WAS that gunk Bumblebee spewed on Sam and Alice?) and were okay with the rest. Skids and Mudflap weren't half as offensive as everyone's been saying-- I actually thought they were funny. Really people, lighten up-- it ain't Shakespeare, and it's not supposed to be.

The plot? Well, it's a Michael Bay film, what do you expect? Honestly, I can't say it had a stronger or weaker plot than the first film. What plot is there, is built around the action sequences. You know it, and you accept it or you don't. Again, not Shakespeare.

The Fallen does seem a little thrown in, just to have someone bigger and badder than Megatron. And if he's held in such high regard by Megs, and has been hanging out relatively nearby, why no mention of him in the first film? I don't read the comics or novels, so maybe I missed that explanation, but the film should have been a little more clear on that.

The humans-- well, some parts sort of went on longer than they should (shades of the first film) but again I thought it was more good than bad.

Jetfire was great-- not at all a traditional take on the character, and it sort of sucked that he had to sacrifice himself to combine with Prime, but while he was there he added a lot. Especially for a character who's mainly there to add exposition, he came out really well.

Wheelie-- Mostly amusing, if one or two comic relief characters too many. The humping Mikaela's leg was a little unnecessary. Can you imagine Bay (or whoever shot that scene) trying to direct Megan about what was going on with the little CGI critter they were adding in post? "He's going to do WHAT to my leg?" Heh.

More to come as I think of it...

[Dominic]

I think Jetfire was supposed to be evocative of the AEC character.

The army building Decepticons are irksome, but make sense from a budget angle. Barricade not showing up more or less confirms that Bay and co. just forgot to put his death in the first movie.

And, another random thought: Why the hell didn't Bumblebee clue in Prime and Sam about the Decepticon Pretender? No, really. That bugs the hell out of me.


And:

Revenge of the Fallen: For a more detailed review of the story, check my blog entries on the novel and comic adaptations. http://www.myspace.com.domininionhub
[JT's EDIT: Dom was so excited, he couldn't use the proper slash after ".com" and can't even spell his own web address right - http://www.myspace.com/dominionhub ]

All told, the movie was about as bad as the novel and comic indicated it would be. The comedy scenes are both intrusive and tedious. The plot is fragmented, and there are some scenes that strongly resemble a child's play session. As I predicted, the Twins (Skids and Mudflap) are annoying. Think Jar Jar Binks from "Star Wars" here, only more annoying. These are the first 2 characters in "Transformers" where the context along was enough to make me never, ever, want to own an action figure representing them. While Skids and Mudflap may be the most annoying characters, they are not the only annoying characters.

For those curious about such things, this movie is actually worse than the first one.

[onslaught86]

Overall, I enjoyed it. Still room for improvement, but I thought it was better than the first. Certainly a good action flick.

The love I had for the first two thirds is fading with time into an overall feeling of 'Meh', but I will see it again at the movies and see how I feel then.

Again, the comic adaptation hurt, as it included two key differences:

1. Instead of just punch-kick-dead with The Fallen, Prime uses the power of the Matrix to open a portal to another dimension, sealing Fallen back inside it, and justifying the "Only a Prime" business that had no follow-through in the film.

2. Two important scenes with Megatron. Firstly, as Prime is stuffing Fallen in the portal, Fallen pleads for Megatron's help. Megs denies this, saying Fallen's promises are empty, and that no-one commands Megatron from now on, et cetera. It's then followed up by a closing scene with him in the Nemesis, energising the Decepti-hatchlings.

Had those been included, I'd have been able to forgive things like the characterisation of Simmons and Leo going nowhere, Wheelie disappearing, the unexplainted multiple Constructicons, the reused footage, Fallen just 'being there on the Nemesis', the Allspark fragments having no further mention after awakening Jetfire and Megs, and Whee Look Explosions.

Overall, I think they went too far too soon with the movie franchise, trying to make it a spectacle before it got off its feet. Would've been better to have a more down-to-earth plot and climx rather than the cosmic mystical tangent we got saddled with. I can only see Unicron coming into the third now. Siiiiigh. Had, say, Shockwave shown up with a fleet rather than Fallen reawakening, I feel we would've gotten a better movie for it.

Loved seeing (and hearing, even with out the vocode) Soundwave. And rather than do things himself, he sends Ravage which I thought worked out well.

Agreed, nice moment there.

I loved it.

I can't believe the negative reactions I've heard, from the bona fide critics it's one thing, but a lot of the word of mouth I heard going in was terrible as well. I tried to go in with even expectations, and I was actually really impressed. My wife and I actually laughed at most of the jokes, cringed at a few (what WAS that gunk Bumblebee spewed on Sam and Alice?) and were okay with the rest. Skids and Mudflap weren't half as offensive as everyone's been saying-- I actually thought they were funny. Really people, lighten up-- it ain't Shakespeare, and it's not supposed to be.

I dunno, maybe I was expecting more of a movie and less of a collection of action scenes and characterisation that went nowhere.. I'm okay, with it being said collection of action scenes, since I didn't mind the first. But they wasted 'so much time' on these plot points with no follow-through that I felt ripped off by the end, it was already dragging for length without 'fun' scenes like Sam's mother getting high on brownies, they could easily have cut a lot more that had no bearing on the ending.

The plot? Well, it's a Michael Bay film, what do you expect? Honestly, I can't say it had a stronger or weaker plot than the first film. What plot is there, is built around the action sequences. You know it, and you accept it or you don't. Again, not Shakespeare.

Again, they were clearly building something there, and did nothing with it. I say they should not have pretended to make a movie with a storyline that made sense if they weren't going to.

Jetfire was great-- not at all a traditional take on the character, and it sort of sucked that he had to sacrifice himself to combine with Prime, but while he was there he added a lot. Especially for a character who's mainly there to add exposition, he came out really well.

Absolutely, his scenes were among my favourites in the movie, he was refreshingly different.

I think Jetfire was supposed to be evocative of the AEC character.

Howso? They had zero in common. Armada Jetfire was a militaristic second-in-command. Much more akin to the original Jetfire, with his faction conflicts and being on Earth many years prior to other TFs. The combination seems more like convenient coincidence than deliberate homage.

And, another random thought: Why the hell didn't Bumblebee clue in Prime and Sam about the Decepticon Pretender? No, really. That bugs the hell out of me.

Argh! Yes, that too.

[BWprowl]

Okay. I think I liked it (I'll have to see it again), there's a lot dragging it down. It's WAY too over-long, with really iffy pacing and editing. Some of the comedy scenes just dragged on for too long (that scene with Sam's mom getting high off the brownies just. Kept. Going. Was all that really neccessary?). But there was a lot of genuine coolness. TONS of robots in this one, and they received much more characterization than in the first one. Wheelie, Jetfire, and Starscream all shine in this regard. Ironhide did well too. Some really good fight scenes too. Prime's fight in the forest was pretty much everything I wanted it to be, and that full-on 'war zone' scene at the end was one of the most effective scenes of that type TF has ever had. I can forgive them for using recycled Devastator components and Genericons to fill that scene out because of how well it worked. I also liked the Twins far more than I thought I would; they were genuiniely funny at times. Good to see Simmons back too, he was a favorite from the first film. And Sam was great as usual (although his predictable-as-hell subplot with Mikaela was trite and annoying). Medanite and I both zOMG'd when the Pretender showed up. THIS is why I was avoiding spoilers, so crap like that would actually catch me off guard and pleasantly surprise me. Scalpel was great fun, I want his toy now. And I really didn't worry about Grindor too much. He's a repaint character, they show up in TF all the time.

I demand a red Rampage repaint now.

What the hell was Bonecrusher doing there? It wasn't just a vehicle mode cameo, he showed up in robot mode in the RBFATE for a second or two. He hates that.

[Sparky Prime]

And, another random thought: Why the hell didn't Bumblebee clue in Prime and Sam about the Decepticon Pretender? No, really. That bugs the hell out of me.

How would Bumblebee know she was a Pretender? As far as I saw, 'Bee just didn't like her because she was trying get Sam to cheat on Mikaela but know way of detecting she was actually a Decepticon.

Also, Simmons keeping Frenzy's head was pretty cool.

[138 Scourge]

Well, went and saw it. And having seen the movie, I just want to know one thing.

...Um, can I have Animated back now, please?

I'm fine with crass humor, but it just got old here and wasn't even that funny. Did we need the shot of Dev's wrecking balls? And then Simmon's line about being directly under the enemy's scrotum?

It had it's moments, I liked the twins, Ravage, Sam's parents, the DoctorCon, Jetfire, and Wheelie (other than the leg-humping). I didn't like that there were so many genericons and no characterization for those guys. Not sure I cared much for Devastator just being made up of whoever happened to be around, either. Some of the action sequences were okay, like the fight in the woods, but I couldn't tell what the hell was going on in Shanghai other than Demolishor beating the hell outta everything (I was okay with that, too).

So, yeah, generally underwhelmed. I even went out to a Wal-Mart right afterwards and tried to buy a Ravage, but couldn't make myself do it. When a movie can't inspire me to pick up a robot kitty, that's a sign that I didn't care for it too much.

[onslaught86]

You know, TF1 was on the movie channel when I popped into the staff cafe at work the other day, and I honestly think I enjoyed the first movie more. ROTF was too much, too soon, too rushed. They cranked up the action scenes and made a facade of giving it a plot to match, yet it wouldn't have suffered with less plot. If anything, there'd be less to explain.

I'll see it a second time and give a final opinion then, but that was not something I feel the fandom can be especially proud of. Yay, we went from being associated with social ineptitude (Ew, you collect toys) to moronic action movies (Oh..Transformers..). I dare say there'll be many who'll dismiss the brand outright as not producing any quality media, which is a shame, as TF certainly does have gems to offer. Take a look at, saaay, All Hail Megatron (C'mon, Sparky, AHM may have a few fringe holes, but it's a more competent story than ROTF by a long shot, hehe).

Am the only one who cringed at the likes of 2005's "Let's bash the critics" mentality? Slavish much? I love Transformers as much as, if not more than, the next guy. But that doesn't mean I'm going to call the movies amazing simply for being Transformers movies.

If nothing else, I can certainly applaud the media saturation the brand's enjoyed at the hands of Bay & friends, and it'll ensure we see more product for years to come. Toys are good.

[Sparky Prime]

(C'mon, Sparky, AHM may have a few fringe holes, but it's a more competent story than ROTF by a long shot, hehe).

I find that extremely debatable. AHM goes no where slowly and the holes in it are certainly much more than fringe.

Am the only one who cringed at the likes of 2005's "Let's bash the critics" mentality?

I was rather surprised to see them promoting such an idea as well. I mean really, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Clearly the movie isn't with out issues. While I enjoyed the movie personally, I can certainly see how it could be made better and why there are those that didn't like it.