TF Views

Moving our discussion about the toys from last months "hauls" thread to here.

It's not a question of what kids can't do, it's a question of what they can.

Are you really suggesting that kids cannot play with toys? A kid who really is incapable of handling more than a few points of articulation will just not use the "difficult" moving parts. (I have never seen a modern SW figure with loose joints.)

They're $12 (I think maybe went up to $13 already) and not every store is getting the second wave - the TFA wave. It's so clusterfucked, Hasbro really has done a disservice to the line.

The only figures worth buying are store exclusives. And, they are being poorly distibuted even by that standard.

The 5 point figures are shit. A 5 point figure is effectively a PVC. It generally only looks and stands well in one position. I like good PVC figures. Current "Star Wars" figures are not good PVC figures (as the jointing is too visually intrusive for them to look good).

The 6 inch figures defeat some of the virtues of "Star Wars" as a toy line.

Traditionally, it was possible to get just about any/everything in a consistent scale. For every unmade background character or vehicle you can name, you can name 2 or 3 others that were made *well*. That is simply not possible in a 6 inch scale line.

The one vehicle in sthat scale that I have seen for Episode 7 is a TIE fighter that costs nearly $200. (That is about the cost of a full set of Marvel Legends.) Does that TIE Fighter seat 1 or 2?

It is not possible to make every character in a 6 inch line. Troop-building is more difficult, even ignoring the costs of the larger figures. Stores are less likely to order as many of the larger figures, meaning there will be fewer stormtroopers (or whatever) available.

From the Dec Hauls thread.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1995

Dom wrote:Moving our discussion about the toys from last months "hauls" thread to here.

This is not an appropriate venue for that conversation. I will split your post into a new topic.

Are you really suggesting that kids cannot play with toys? A kid who really is incapable of handling more than a few points of articulation will just not use the "difficult" moving parts. (I have never seen a modern SW figure with loose joints.)

Yes, I - a multinational conglomerate who has been in the toy industry for 60 years, who has spent millions on research and market testing - am saying that children with less-developed motor skills will not merely "just not use" the difficult parts but actively get frustrated by them when the figure looks all twisted up and can't stand on its own, can't look like a normal pose.

The 5 point figures are shit. A 5 point figure is effectively a PVC. It generally only looks and stands well in one position. I like good PVC figures. Current "Star Wars" figures are not good PVC figures (as the jointing is too visually intrusive for them to look good).

That's overstating it. I have all the Rebels figures, and while they are quite limited, they're not "shit" and they're not as static as you're making out.

The one vehicle in sthat scale that I have seen for Episode 7 is a TIE fighter that costs nearly $200. (That is about the cost of a full set of Marvel Legends.) Does that TIE Fighter seat 1 or 2?

It's $150 and seats 2 in proper configuration, whereas the 3.75" version of the SF TIE has the figures sitting side-by-side rather than back-to-back.

The modern TIE is $180 around here. After taxes, the price is approaching $200.

5 point figures are inexcusable in 2015. There is stuff I would have bought ("Iron Man 3" and "Avengers") but for the lack of articulation.

joints.)
Yes, I - a multinational conglomerate who has been in the toy industry for 60 years, who has spent millions on research and market testing - am saying that children with less-developed motor skills will not merely "just not use" the difficult parts but actively get frustrated by them when the figure looks all twisted up and can't stand on its own, can't look like a normal pose.

This takes aiming low to a new, well...., low.

5 point figures are inexcusable in 2015. There is stuff I would have bought ("Iron Man 3" and "Avengers") but for the lack of articulation.

For some characters. I don't really need General Hux to be doing ninja kicks, and I own the 5POA Finn and am perfectly fine with him because his design isn't really good enough to justify $12 for a better toy. (I wish Poe Dameron had a third outfit in the film that they were making toys of; I like my Pilot Poe but he's, well, a pilot. There's a reason I don't own a Pilot Luke, y'know? Because then I'd have to buy an X-Wing.)

Hux should still have knees and have good arm movement.

I don't want to pay any dollars for Hux, but certainly not more than $6. Naturally he's $8, and you'd prefer he was $12?

Not sure where all the Hux hate is coming from.

But, in general terms, I would rather pay $12 for a good toy than $6 for a lesser toy.

Man we are all over the place here. O6 just wants his toys to look good, JT wants them to look good and be cheap. And Dom and I both want them to have a shit ton of detail and not be more than $12.

See, for me, it's because they have done better, I just think they SHOULD consistently do better. And you know, market the awesomeness to everyone. Shit, they did that just ten years ago an it was awesome. I think maybe that's where Hasbro fucked up. They did TOO good. That 30th anniversary edition Darth Vader is the best Vader they have ever made. After I bought that, I knew I never had to buy another ever again because they would never top it. Yeah, for around $10 or $12 or whatever they were going for at the time, you get Vader with articulation on all the regular joints (ankles, knees, hips, waist, shoulders, elbows, wrists, neck) and then it pushes it even further with a removable helmet. But wait, it doesn't stop there. Oh no. The 'Bro went and made a full three piece helmet just like in the movie complete with a mangled Anakin head underneath and even the painted connector details on the various parts of the helmet. And the Anakin head was separately moveable from the lower Vader mask. Now that would have been great in itself, but no, they went and gave it awesome accessories: Lightsaber, Lightsaber handle, and... dead Obi-Wan Kenobi. Yeah, it's his crumpled cloak with his Lightsaber on top from the duel on the Death Star. complete with a footprint molded into so Vader can step on it like in the movie. And the other figures of the time and a lot since have been up to that same quality. Now, that is a REALLY high bar to set and subsequently come down from. I'm also of the opinion that if you're going to do something new, it should be either better than before or at least as good. Not worse. And that's why I just can't get behind or reward this 5POA figure crap. It's a MASSIVE step backward and... yeah, ideologically (and subsequently, monetarily) I can't support it. Shit, even my MOM agrees with me! Even she said the new figures are crap, especially compared to the two figures she did get me for Christmas.

Even discounting the (frankly absurd) standard set by the Vader Shockwave has, Hasbro has done better. 5 points of articulation is insulting.

I resent Hasbro trying to tell us that anything with more than 5 points of articulation is special or premium when 10+ points used to be standard. There have been Marvel movie figures I have skipped because they only had 5 points of articulation. (I would consider $2 for a figure like that, but no more.)

Dominic wrote:Not sure where all the Hux hate is coming from.

He's a boring nobody who didn't pan out, and did absolutely nothing exciting.

But, in general terms, I would rather pay $12 for a good toy than $6 for a lesser toy.

The market doesn't agree, sales have been down on Super Articulated SW figures year after year since The Vintage Collection, the market for expensive 3.75" figures is shrinking which is a big part of why the price has been climbing steadily. It doesn't help that new management has been delivering problem after problem, whether it's lower quality paint apps, or worse sculpts, but those are also symptoms of the shrinking interest in this scale having premium figures.

Shockwave wrote:Man we are all over the place here. O6 just wants his toys to look good, JT wants them to look good and be cheap. And Dom and I both want them to have a shit ton of detail and not be more than $12.

I don't want them at all. After 20 years of collecting this line, I had to check to see which my last 3.75" purchase was - it was Ree Yees from 2014, and he kinda sucks, he's right here on my desk shooting at a Speeder Bike flying by which his tiny head all aggro'd out. Before that was the Snowtrooper Commander, who was too skinny for his troops. It's downright embarrassing how terrible the figures got under the new brand management, and how poor the character choices became. "But at least distribution was fixed!" - said no one, because it still hadn't been after a decade of problems.

Shit, they did that just ten years ago an it was awesome. I think maybe that's where Hasbro fucked up. They did TOO good. That 30th anniversary edition Darth Vader is the best Vader they have ever made. After I bought that, I knew I never had to buy another ever again because they would never top it. Yeah, for around $10 or $12 or whatever they were going for at the time, you get Vader with articulation on all the regular joints (ankles, knees, hips, waist, shoulders, elbows, wrists, neck) and then it pushes it even further with a removable helmet. But wait, it doesn't stop there. Oh no. The 'Bro went and made a full three piece helmet just like in the movie complete with a mangled Anakin head underneath and even the painted connector details on the various parts of the helmet. And the Anakin head was separately moveable from the lower Vader mask. Now that would have been great in itself, but no, they went and gave it awesome accessories: Lightsaber, Lightsaber handle, and... dead Obi-Wan Kenobi. Yeah, it's his crumpled cloak with his Lightsaber on top from the duel on the Death Star. complete with a footprint molded into so Vader can step on it like in the movie. And the other figures of the time and a lot since have been up to that same quality. Now, that is a REALLY high bar to set and subsequently come down from.

You know what's funny? The TAC one is ok, but it's been eclipsed by The Vintage Collection ANH wave from 2012 with a nicer sculpt and better articulation, and that one was eclipsed by - of all things - The Black Series #26 from ROTS which has an excellent sculpt, range of motion, and a different cape system that integrates much nicer. Those 2 are my go-to Vaders now, despite a lack of removable helmet. So you'd think surely they'd either focus on those figures in repacks or improve on them, right? FUCK NO, instead Hasbro focuses on the goddamned multiple awful spinoffs of the Evolutions figure from 2008 or even worse the the 2004 VOTC - yeah, they want you to pay $12 right now for a 12 year old mold that was not entirely satisfying at the time and still has diagonal swivel elbows. That's the level of decision-making running the brand now, just point at one that says Vader and charge as much as you can, never mind if it's up to snuff.

I'm also of the opinion that if you're going to do something new, it should be either better than before or at least as good. Not worse. And that's why I just can't get behind or reward this 5POA figure crap. It's a MASSIVE step backward and... yeah, ideologically (and subsequently, monetarily) I can't support it. Shit, even my MOM agrees with me! Even she said the new figures are crap, especially compared to the two figures she did get me for Christmas.

The sculpts and paint on the 5POA figures are actually pretty nice now, and they cost considerably less, so they are where the marketing is focused. It's a damned shame Hasbro felt the need to jack up the price $2 though. But the 5POA Vader I have is from Rebels, it's very appealing, came in a multipack with Rebels Ahsoka, based on McQuarrie art, and yeah it's 5POA but it still looks better than the $12 figure swimming in terrible soft-goods (cloth) elements sporting nigh-useless articulation.