TF Views

The exclusives for BotCon 2013 are reported to be based on "Machine Wars".

Assuming the same patterns from recent years, there will probably be "Prime" and "Generations" moulds. PCC moulds are also a realistic possibility.

At least one of the 5 figures in the boxed set will be re-used for the custom class and/or one fo the in-show exclusives. There is also likely to be a set of army builders.

In terms of characters, this set will probably be a mix of old and new characters. (Remember, 2010's G2 set did not adhere strictly to characters with precedent in G2.)

Story-wise, it is going to be set in the "Wings" timeline. And, it will probably read like a fanfic that tried to fold the later toys in with the cartoon. In theory, all of the old characters could show up, even the guys who would be dead in the movie. (A mechanism for raising old characters, or even having two of the "same" character in the same place was introduced in the newsletter comics.)


Dom
-might possibly be in for a few PCC moulds.

You’ve got a point on the PCC molds, Huffer as Hubcap or Hoist sounds extremely plausible. Not sure how I’d feel about Skyhammer or Skyburst filling in as the jets, though if we get a new Megaplex out of this, I’ll at least be interested. Other thoughts/possibilities:

Classics Mirage as Prowl or…Mirage
FunPub could take another turn at the Universe Inferno mold, this time with the new Hot Spot head as MW Optimus Prime.
DOTM Skyhammer as Sandstorm (a mold that seriously needed a repaint besides). They could also use PCC Searchlight if they want it to suck.
Only mold I can think of that would work for Soundwave would have been Cybertron Defense Red Alert, but that mold’s ancient at this point, and they already used it besides. Ditto Starscream, actually, no idea who they’d use for him (this is one of the many, many problems in the world brought on by Skyquake not getting a new toy).

Anyway, you’ve also got a point that this set could end up using very few *actual* MW characters anyway, going by the G2 set (which had, what, 2 or 3 legitimate G2 guys represented, with the rest being random crap?), especially with the half-assed Wings of Honor setting backing things (I still have no idea what to point of that backdrop is). There’s also the issue that a lot of the MW color schemes…aren’t terribly striking. Homaging these things would hardly necessitate a con-exclusive paint budget, so there might be significant embellishing of the original looks of the toys.

I mean, I’m definitely interested, Machine Wars being one of those critically under-utilized obscure corners of the TF franchise that I love, but there’s also a lot of places FunPub could go all FunPub on this one (Shattered Glass Machine Wars! Hubcap is black, Hoist is yellow!). I’m also kind of interested in the fandom at large’s response, considering there were a lot of people who didn’t know what Machine Wars was *when it was out*.

(Does Machine Wars qualify for ‘most obscure TF line/franchise of all time’? At least in the west, I’d think.)

MW is definitely the most obscure US toyline. The only real comparison might be both Dinobots toylines, and those seem to just be folded into BM and RID respectively.

If true, I can see some cool stuff coming out of it. One thing they could do is kind of MW in reverse--instead of moulds that resemble the MW toys, they use moulds that resemble the characters they were intended to be, but in MW's colour schemes.

Picture this:

-Classics Starscream in black, grey and teal. (Scourge colours!)
-Classics Deluxe Prime (the crappy mould--can't see them using the Voyager for this) in grey/white, red and blue.
-Classics Mirage in teal
-Classics Voyager Megs in teal, as Megaplex.
-Energon Soundwave in grey and maroon.

Pick and choose a few of them, and fill them out with some other dudes, and you're good to go. (If they do Megaplex as a Deluxe mould instead of the Voyager, they could very well use him as an army builder, and/or the custom class.)

"Wings of Honor" is basically their follow-up to the cartoon. I personally find it to be mildly less offensive than the Classicsverse was. But, my reasoning here is admittedly vague. Both deviate significantly from their foundations. But, Wings feels like it is adding a bit more. And, being built off the cartoon, it feels less like it is trying to float in the wake of something that was more decisively written and finished.

On the other hand, while I am not a fan of Sipher and Troop, I have to admit that they made a noble effort with the Classicsverse. They tried to follow up on the Marvel books respectfully and add things. Unfortunately, Yee and Sinclair decided to go for the quick fix and faux-epic so common of most fanfic.


And, because this would not be a discussion about an upcoming convention without rampant speculation.....

Classics Mirage as Prowl or…Mirage
FunPub could take another turn at the Universe Inferno mold, this time with the new Hot Spot head as MW Optimus Prime.
DOTM Skyhammer as Sandstorm (a mold that seriously needed a repaint besides). They could also use PCC Searchlight if they want it to suck.
Only mold I can think of that would work for Soundwave would have been Cybertron Defense Red Alert, but that mold’s ancient at this point, and they already used it besides. Ditto Starscream, actually, no idea who they’d use for him (this is one of the many, many problems in the world brought on by Skyquake not getting a new toy).

PCC Leadfoot would also make a good Mirage. There is precedent. If we assume that "Stealth Force" Leadfoot is the same guy as G2 and PCC Leadfoot, and account for "Stealth Force" Leadfoot's character art and alternate mode are shared with Mirage, it works.

(The possibility of PCC figures is enough to make me hold off on making some of my own PCC custom projects, at least until we have colour schemes.)


The total "Machine Wars" roster:
-Scout Class: Prowl/Mirage, Hubcap/Hoist, Thundercracker/Skywarp, Megatron/Megaple
-Mega (no modern class equivalent): Soundwave and Sandstorm
-Ultra: Starscream
-Leader: Optimus Prime

That is 12 toys.

A typical BotCon set has closer to 20. (5 or 6 in the main set. 7 across two or three at-show exclusives, the door "freebie" and the custom figure.)
Fun Publications could possible release all of the "Machine Wars" characters and new characters would still be obligatory. (If nothing else, the now expected troop-builder would have no precedent in "Machine Wars", requiring a "new" character type.)

Hubcap has some fan appeal. I expect much to made of either how the conman became a component harvester or how the conman and component harvester are two different guys. (And, PCC Huffer would work as Hoist, maybe with one of the hook-handed Minicon moulds.)

Hoist could be made from PCC Smoulder. If nothing else, the vehicle mode would fit.

Hotspot as Optimus has possiblities. Pyro and Prime have shared moulding before. And, a teaser image apparently features a severely damaged RTS Optimus, providing justification for Prime to get yet another body. (Of course, last year's BotCon featured a poster that did not match up with the art in the book itself.)

My above mentioned Mirage idea holds some water. Prowl would not really work from this mould.

Soundwave is unlikely, as there was a Soundwave last year. (Of course, Fun Publications has relaxed their "no redundant characters" rule in recent years.)

Picture this:

-Classics Starscream in black, grey and teal. (Scourge colours!)
-Classics Deluxe Prime (the crappy mould--can't see them using the Voyager for this) in grey/white, red and blue.
-Classics Mirage in teal
-Classics Voyager Megs in teal, as Megaplex.
-Energon Soundwave in grey and maroon.

This idea also works.

If they bring out the 2006 Starscream mould, then that opens up the possiblity for another BotCon Thundercracker and a Skywarp. This scenario would guarantee fan-rage, as one of those figures would end up as the nearly impossible to get custom class figure. This would lead to an outrageous sequel to 2007's "Thundergate" affair or it would set up for the (difficult/expensive to customize at home) white recolour of Skywarp being the custom class figure.

And, if they use the 2006 Starscream mould, it would be a safe bet that the army-builders would be purple Decepticon troopers. (I would consider buying this set.)

There are plenty of Megatron's to be recoloured in to Megaplex. And, we can just about assume a Megaplex will be in this set.

(Does Machine Wars qualify for ‘most obscure TF line/franchise of all time’? At least in the west, I’d think.)

The only other contender that I can think of is "Universe". "Machine Wars" was entirely limited to store exclusives, (at a chain most people avoided for price reasons). And, it had zero media presence. "Universe" had a pack-in CD-ROM, with minimal content. (And, a kid had to buy the toy in order to get the DVD, effectively giving the kid something to do other than play with the CD.) The "Universe" comic was originally released at BotCon, and later (in very limited quantities) through Diamond.

Both "Machine Wars" and "Universe" were over-shadowed by other lines with significant media presence, "Beast Wars" and the early "Unicron Trilogy". "Universe" was also up against "Alternators" and post-hoc "Robots in Disguise" toys that were exclusive to various retailers.


Dom
-wondering if is it too early to begin speculating about an RiD themed set for 2014?

Doing a MW Botcon themed set seems like a loser idea. I can see this set being worthless & not in demand. ofcause the botcon scalpers will buy out everything,then charge tripple prices. most botcon scalpers on ebay never lower their insanely high prices on ebay,they'd rather hoarde & die with the toys then lower the prices.

I can only imagine the MW 2013 botcon themed set will be mixed in with another theme. usually the souvenir/add-on figures have a high rate of being a different theme.

Dominic wrote:The exclusives for BotCon 2013 are reported to be based on "Machine Wars".

Assuming the same patterns from recent years, there will probably be "Prime" and "Generations" moulds. PCC moulds are also a realistic possibility.

At least one of the 5 figures in the boxed set will be re-used for the custom class and/or one fo the in-show exclusives. There is also likely to be a set of army builders.

Their will be no TF Prime FE or rid toys being used for the Botcon 2013 themed set. because according to Hasbro & TFCC,They can't use any newer TF molds that are still in production on the assembly lines factories.

Their will be no PCC toys because according to TFCC,The botcon scalpers/attendees don't like buying tiny TF toys because their harder to scalp on ebay & elsewhere.

The TFCC 2013 molds being used will most likely be the generations 2011,RTS & HFTD toy molds.

Knowing TFCC,Their probably won't even be that many toy characters from the 1997 Machine wars toy line as 2013 convention exclusives. I can only imagine the wacky/weird TFCC will put some obsecure characters from the last years worth of UK TF G-1 & some obsecure action masters & say their late edition machine wars characters toys for the botcon 2013 themed set.

And we needed three posts for all that because…?

Dominic wrote:And, because this would not be a discussion about an upcoming convention without rampant speculation.....

Hey, you started this topic. What else you want to talk about?

PCC Leadfoot would also make a good Mirage. There is precedent. If we assume that "Stealth Force" Leadfoot is the same guy as G2 and PCC Leadfoot, and account for "Stealth Force" Leadfoot's character art and alternate mode are shared with Mirage, it works.

Dangit, I managed to completely forgot about Leadfoot when I was thinking of guys to use for Mirage/Prowl.

Also, Dom, you are putting WAY too much effort into justifying why FP would use Leadfooot for Mirage. In FunPub’s mind, they wouldn’t use the mold because there’s precedent brought on by another use of the name being based on a recolor of another iteration of Mirage. No, in their mind they would use Leadfoot’s mold as Mirage because it’s a race car. That’s it.

(Seriously dude, no one, including Hasbro or FunPub, puts as much insanely meticulous consideration into repaints as you do.)

The total "Machine Wars" roster:
-Scout Class: Prowl/Mirage, Hubcap/Hoist, Thundercracker/Skywarp, Megatron/Megaple
-Mega (no modern class equivalent): Soundwave and Sandstorm
-Ultra: Starscream
-Leader: Optimus Prime

That is 12 toys.

A typical BotCon set has closer to 20. (5 or 6 in the main set. 7 across two or three at-show exclusives, the door "freebie" and the custom figure.)
Fun Publications could possible release all of the "Machine Wars" characters and new characters would still be obligatory. (If nothing else, the now expected troop-builder would have no precedent in "Machine Wars", requiring a "new" character type.)

Um, by your count, that’s still only 15 total, at maximum. 15 is not 20, no matter how your insane rounding works. And the at-show exclusive sets usually account for maybe 5 toys, with two in one set, and maybe three in another, those three usually being a troop-builder besides. So with six in the main set, two in an at-show set, one in the custom class, and one troop-builder multiplied by three is just ten new toys, so they *could* conceivably all be actual MW guys, though I’ll admit that I don’t expect them to be.

As Six mentioned, a three-pack of Megaplexes as the troop-builder would work pretty well.

Hubcap has some fan appeal. I expect much to made of either how the conman became a component harvester or how the conman and component harvester are two different guys. (And, PCC Huffer would work as Hoist, maybe with one of the hook-handed Minicon moulds.)

Hoist could be made from PCC Smoulder. If nothing else, the vehicle mode would fit.

Eh, Smolder’s not *that* close, Huffer really fits a lot better. Huffer as Hoist or Hubcap is the one toy I’m almost certain of for this set, honestly.

Hotspot as Optimus has possiblities. Pyro and Prime have shared moulding before.

Yeah, when Pyro got repainted as Optimus Prime. In Machine Wars. Work with me here, man.

And, a teaser image apparently features a severely RTS Optimus, providing justification for Prime to get yet another body.

RTS? Reveal the Shield? Wut’s that got to do with needing a new body?

(Of course, last year's BotCon featured a poster that did not match up with the art in the book itself.)

Explanation? Is this just you being unnecessarily anal-retentive about character models because you were looking for something to be ‘wrong’, or was there some stuff that genuinely did not match up?

My above mentioned Mirage idea holds some water. Prowl would not really work from this mould.

Do you actually think that would stop FunPub? Consider the last Wings of Honor set, where they thought Kup from Red Alert and Scourge from Noisemaze were good ideas. Also it’s not like the Mirage mold suited Prowl terribly well to begin with in MW, so this would at least be in the spirit of that.

Picture this:

-Classics Starscream in black, grey and teal. (Scourge colours!)
-Classics Deluxe Prime (the crappy mould--can't see them using the Voyager for this) in grey/white, red and blue.
-Classics Mirage in teal
-Classics Voyager Megs in teal, as Megaplex.
-Energon Soundwave in grey and maroon.

Yeah, this actually works. They could also use the Deluxe WFC Soundwave mold if they wanted a more Geewunny body, and didn’t want more than the one Voyager in the set.

If they bring out the 2006 Starscream mould, then that opens up the possiblity for another BotCon Thundercracker and a Skywarp. This scenario would guarantee fan-rage, as one of those figures would end up as the nearly impossible to get custom class figure. This would lead to an outrageous sequel to 2007's "Thundergate" affair or it would set up for the (difficult/expensive to customize at home) white recolour of Skywarp being the custom class figure.

How would this cause fan-rage? Frankly, if people don’t have a complete set of Seekers by now, they just aren’t trying.

There are plenty of Megatron's to be recoloured in to Megaplex. And, we can just about assume a Megaplex will be in this set.

Agreed. If Machine Wars had ANYTHING even remotely resembling an ‘iconic’ or ‘defining’ character, it was Megaplex. It’s the one thing people will expect to see. (I don’t blame them either, Megaplex was and still is a fantastic idea)

(Does Machine Wars qualify for ‘most obscure TF line/franchise of all time’? At least in the west, I’d think.)

The only other contender that I can think of is "Universe". "Machine Wars" was entirely limited to store exclusives, (at a chain most people avoided for price reasons). And, it had zero media presence. "Universe" had a pack-in CD-ROM, with minimal content. (And, a kid had to buy the toy in order to get the DVD, effectively giving the kid something to do other than play with the CD.) The "Universe" comic was originally released at BotCon, and later (in very limited quantities) through Diamond.

Both "Machine Wars" and "Universe" were over-shadowed by other lines with significant media presence, "Beast Wars" and the early "Unicron Trilogy". "Universe" was also up against "Alternators" and post-hoc "Robots in Disguise" toys that were exclusive to various retailers.

Yeah, I think that just by virtue of being exclusive to a not-terribly-widespread store, and having zero media support, Machine Wars edges out Universe for the title (Universe also lasted longer, and had more toys).

Dom
-wondering if is it too early to begin speculating about an RiD themed set for 2014?

We did that last year, remember? We ended up getting more Shattered Glass instead.

(Seriously dude, no one, including Hasbro or FunPub, puts as much insanely meticulous consideration into repaints as you do.)

How can you say that? I mean, in 2010, we got a UT era Megatron recoloured as...uh....Cindersaur. That made perfect sense. And, I mean, c'mon man, that was brilliant of them to include Skybite in a G2 set that same year! And, they used Skybite to make sharkticons. And,....uh....yeah. Maybe you have a point.

And the at-show exclusive sets usually account for maybe 5 toys, with two in one set, and maybe three in another, those three usually being a troop-builder besides.

The pattern is usually 2 sets of 2 in addition to 1 set of 3 troopbuilders. That is a total of 7 toys. I did say "closer to 20", not "exactly".

Eh, Smolder’s not *that* close, Huffer really fits a lot better. Huffer as Hoist or Hubcap is the one toy I’m almost certain of for this set, honestly.

Smoulder as Hoist.

RTS? Reveal the Shield? Wut’s that got to do with needing a new body?

I meant to say "severely damaged".

Sorry.

Explanation? Is this just you being unnecessarily anal-retentive about character models because you were looking for something to be ‘wrong’, or was there some stuff that genuinely did not match up?

There have been examples of character being drawn using different character models on the posters than were used in the comics. I know that last year had at least one example of that.

How would this cause fan-rage? Frankly, if people don’t have a complete set of Seekers by now, they just aren’t trying.

It comes down to how you define "complete". Is it "every character" or "every iteration of every character"?

And, if somebody wants the latter....oi. Or, if somebody just want to be a completist for the character that ends up as the custom class exclusive in the above (hypothetical) example, then there will be rage.



Dom
-half the fun is the speculation.

Dominic wrote:How can you say that? I mean, in 2010, we got a UT era Megatron recoloured as...uh....Cindersaur. That made perfect sense. And, I mean, c'mon man, that was brilliant of them to include Skybite in a G2 set that same year! And, they used Skybite to make sharkticons. And,....uh....yeah. Maybe you have a point.

To be fair, the *colors* on Cindersaur were actually extremely well thought-out. It’s just that the base mold was chosen purely because it was a dinosaur, which the original Cindersaur kind of looked like.

The pattern is usually 2 sets of 2 in addition to 1 set of 3 troopbuilders. That is a total of 7 toys. I did say "closer to 20", not "exactly".

When have there ever been 20 Botcon toys? You can’t round on this thing, man, especially when the individual units more or less than 12 are important to keep in mind here. Even with the extra set of two, that still maxes out to 15 toys, again with three of those actually just being ‘one’ toy (being the troop-builder). So that’s still 12 toys total, meaning they could potentially include a new version of every dude from Machine Wars, so long as the troop-builder was three Megaplexes.

Eh, Smolder’s not *that* close, Huffer really fits a lot better. Huffer as Hoist or Hubcap is the one toy I’m almost certain of for this set, honestly.

Smoulder as Hoist.

Okay, you’re calling Smolder, I’m betting Huffer, we’ll mark it down! I will actually mail you a Coke if you’re right.

I meant to say "severely damaged".

Sorry.

No problem. My phone’s OS just updated, so I’m enjoying wrestling with an over-aggressive auto-correct myself.

There have been examples of character being drawn using different character models on the posters than were used in the comics. I know that last year had at least one example of that.

And that example is…?

It comes down to how you define "complete". Is it "every character" or "every iteration of every character"?

And, if somebody wants the latter....oi. Or, if somebody just want to be a completist for the character that ends up as the custom class exclusive in the above (hypothetical) example, then there will be rage.

If someone is so crazy that they become physically angry that they might have to pay premium prices to get *another* toy of a guy named Skywarp, then that money would probably be better spent on psychiatric medication of some sort. For serious. The rest of us can just be happy that we have a red-and-white dude named Starscream, a blue dude named Thundercracker, and a black-and-purple dude named Skywarp to stand on the shelf next to each other.

And for the record, I still think the ‘custom class’ is complete bullshit these days; making the ‘end’ figure an actual canon part of the ‘set’ really skews things because now, the majority of people signing up aren’t people who actually have an interest in customizing and want to learn new techniques to pursue that, they’re just guys who want another exclusive toy so they can complete their ‘set’, and that overshadows the point of the whole thing. Not to mention my feelings on going to a ‘custom class’ and getting dragooned into making one particular, specific figure.

Dom
-half the fun is the speculation.

The other half is being completely baffled when FunPub reveals what the actual toys will be!