How do you feel about,generations out of scale homage toys?

[Tigermegatron]

How do you feel about Generations,Classics & RTS wrong size scaled toys?

1- It upsets you sometimes or always

2-Don't care

3- Just lucky & fortunate to get whatever bone hasbro throws my way

Granted I can understand,it's no easy task for Hasbro. to try to figure out which 1980's TF toy go into todays newer size classes & price points. I don't mind if hasbro is off by a size class. creating extremly under sized or over sized TF G-1 homage new molds it what really upsets me.

Sadly when hasbro creates these extremly over sized TF G-1 homage new molds. it's never the TF G-1 character toy that's on my top 10 or top 20 list,like G-1 styled galvatron,G-1 Cyclonus,rodimus prime,etc... most of the time hasbro gives these extremly over sized TF G-1 homage new molds to TF G-1 characters/toy I dis-like like bumblebee,seaspray,powerglide,etc..

Hasbro is clearly not making the most use out of the restricted only legends,basics & deluxe only generations toy line. this seems like the perfect opportunity to release some 1980's TF G-1 combiners as these toys can make due with the limited generations tiny size classes. examples: (1) six basic sized constructicons or six deluxe sized constructicons. (2) Five deluxe sized G-1 predacons. (3) scramble city combiners. similar to energon's toy line, 4 basic sized limbs bots & one deluxe core bot. (4) similar to FOC Bruticus have some scramble city combiner teams be five deluxe sized toys. (5) Six legends sized monster bots that form monstructor (6) Six legends sized Dino force bots that form Dinoking.

I'd rather hasbro create all the 1980's TF toys for generations that actually belong in the restricted generations legends,basics,deluxe size classes. I'm simply not a fan of shrinking down faction leaders or big bots to make them fit into the generations toy line.

I'd rather do without right now & wait. Till generations or another named fan TF toy line is allowed to create high ranking or big bots in the bigger TF toys sizes like voyager,ultra & leader size. or I'd rather see some TF G-1 homages get put into the main TF toy lines like TF Prime,Movie verse & whatever new comes along that isn't generations.

I don't mind wrong size scaled new toys for certain TF characters that receive a few toys a year in various sizes like megatron,optimus,starscream, bumblebee,etc... Because we clearly got these characters in all the sizes & it doesn't matter. because we can pick & chose thru the years & select our desired size class for these characters.

I'm referring to getting wrong size scale TF figures for obsecure characters. tht might not have a 2nd chance to get another toy in the proper size scale like generations deluxe thunderwing. who I felt should have been a voyager or ultra sized TF toy.

Examples of Hasbro's wrong sized homage new mold TF toys are as follows:

1- HFTD voyager sized seaspray. this toy should have been legends or basics size.

2- FOC Generations Shockwave deluxe size,this toy should have been voyager or ultra sized.

3- Generations thunderwing deluxe,this should have been ultra sized.

4- classics 2.0 ultra sized powerglide. this toy should have been legends or basic sized.

5- classics 2.0 ultra sized onslaught. this toy should have been deluxe size.

6-energon deluxe rodimus prime. this toy should have been voyager sized & should have power-linked with other voyagers.

7-classics 2.0 deluxe galvatron. toy should have been ultra sized.

8- classics 2.0 cyclonus,toy should have been voyager or ultra sized.

9- generations deluxe scourge. toy should have been voyager size.

10- Classics 2.0 Ultra sized Silverbolt. this toy should have been deluxe size.

11- all those movie verse oversized supreme,ultimate & leader sized bumblebee toys. this toy characters only deserves the legends,basic or extremly generous deluxe size scale toy.

[Onslaught Six]

The big thing with Hasbro is they're trying to, on some level, keep to scale with vehicle modes in some of the toylines. Universe 2.0 seemed like it was trying to do that.

Personally, for me it depends entirely on how big a character is supposed to be. Powerglide, to me, is a tiny guy, so I didn't really like his Univer 2.0 toy and didn't buy it. Galvatron isn't really that much taller than Scourge or Cyclonus. I'd prefer if he was a Voyager but honestly the design of the toy was just so meh-worthy that no scale difference would save it. (For one, I actually agree with you in wanting a toy; I would buy the hell out of Masterpiece Galvatron.)

For other guys, though, it doesn't really matter. I was okay with Straxus being a Deluxe. I didn't even really mind Thunderwing being a Deluxe either, although I wish he was a larger Deluxe, since, I dunno, the size he ended up doesn't really convey the power or threat Thunderwing posed in the comics. (That said, scale-wise it works GREAT for Black Shadow and Metalhawk. I don't own the latter, but he looks like he's not bad in that department. For a mid-range regular Decepticon dude, yeah, totally sweet. For a Big Bad Leader? Not so much.) He would have been fine at a Voyager size though; I don't think he warrants Ultra sized. (He'd be taller than Megatron!)

I don't mind FOC Shockwave only being a Deluxe since in the game, nobody is really larger than anybody else (besides Omega Supreme, Metroplex, Trypticon, etc. and some of the generic tank dudes you fight) and 'all' of the WFC/FOC toys so far have been Deluxes.

I disagree on Onslaught, but I love Onslaught. That said, they could've done him as a Deluxe and I'd have been pretty happy too, as long as he was suitably big and tall.

I disagree that Scourge or Cyclonus should have been larger; especially with Cyclonus being Ultra sized. I understand that Galvatron rode around in Cyclonus' cockpit in the film but when he transforms, he's not any bigger than Galvatron. Scourge and Cyclonus should be the same size, with Galvatron also being the same size or slightly larger. Also, they were made from Seekers and Insecticons; not exactly the largest of Transformers.

As for Hugeass Bumblebees, here's the thing: toys like that are going to rot on shelves no matter 'what' Hasbro does. There were entire endcaps before filled with Unicrons, Primuses, Omega Supremes, Metroplexes and Galvatrons that nobody was buying. By making these toys into Bumblebee instead of obscure or new characters, they at least guarantee sales from people who really like Bumblebee or kids who want a Huge Expensive Bumblebee Toy.

[Shockwave]

Where is it written that a character's toy has to remain the same size forever? I'm also personally ok with size switching. They don't always get it right, but by and large I've been pretty happy with the Classics line.

[Onslaught Six]

Where is it written that a character's toy has to remain the same size forever? I'm also personally ok with size switching. They don't always get it right, but by and large I've been pretty happy with the Classics line.

With certain characters, it's kind of a thing. I mean, for example, Jetfire is a Big Dude. That's his whole thing, he's a hugeass jet Autobot. Bumblebee is (traditionally) a pretty tiny dude. Megatron and Optimus Prime are a little bigger than most of their troops (Jazz, Prowl, Starscream, Soundwave) but not the tallest dude around (Jetfire, Omega Supreme, Trypticon, etc.) It just makes sense that way.

[Shockwave]

Fair enough and I would agree with that, I guess I was just arguing that this concept gets tossed out with the minibots. Most of them had alt modes that would have realistically made them far larger than some of their counterparts. Not that scale has ever been consistent in TF anyway, but you get my point. This is why I had no problem with the updated Powerglide. I didn't like it because it was a shitty figure, not because it was out of scale.

[Tigermegatron]

Some of you guys I feel are missing the main point.

The main point is as follows: Each TF size class that gets created these days has limited slots. the smaller scales have more slots to fill. while the larger size scales have less slots to fill.

With the limited slots to fill in the bigger sizes like voyagers,ultra's & leaders. examples: (1) If hasbro give's movie-verse/TF Prime bumblebee a leader sized toy this basically prevents another TF character from getting a leader sized figure like Megatron,shockwave,blackout,etc... (2) universe 2.0 gave powerglide,onslaught & silverbolt ultra sized toys. this basically forced other classics 2.0 characters to get deluxe sized toys like galvatron,cyclonus,scourge,tankor/octane. It might have even prevented newer designs getting made into ultra's like rodimus prime or blitzwing.
(3) we had a few problems with the 2010 generations/RTS toy lines. where HFTD Seaspray got the voyager toy that
should have been given to thunderwing. voyager highbrow got the voyager that should have been given to RTS Laser optimus. (4)Energon's toy line gave ironhide a voyager & this forced rodimus prime to be a deluxe. (5) and the list goes on. basically with the limited slots to fill in the bigger sizes. if hasbro gives away the bigger toys to characters that deserve smaller toys. this forces the bigger G-1 toys to get smaller generations or RTS toys.

It's simply not a matter of saying "who cares,I like the HFTD Seaspray toy design it's epic win." It's a matter of looking at it from a different point of view like as follows: "smaller G-1 character toys put into the wrong larger new homage size scales,steal the bigger toy slots away from the G-1 TF character/toys,that need/deserve them more."

It's worth another serious mention. That had Classics 2.0 Galvatron been ultra sized,the toy would of had it's deleted 3rd mode. been made of stronger plastic. not had it's original intended voyager sized design been compacted to deluxe size.

My guess is had generations thunderwing been voyager sized. the drone would have transformed into a minicon sized robot mode & fit inside the inner toy cavity of the robot mode. also the toy would have been less compact as a voyager & been made of stronger plastic.

Had classics 2.0 Onslaught been deluxe sized,it would have been more compact. made of thinner plastic & some of the gimmicks would have been deleted. same exact deal goes for HFTD Voyager seaspray. basically what i'm saying classics 2.0 galvatron,cyclonus & scourge could have been equally as awesome had they been voyager or ultra size. because they would have been made using stronger plastic. less compact,more gimmicks & sculpt detail added.

[annhell]

I'm seeing 2 key points from you TigMeg, do clarify if I'm wrong:
1) Certain toys have been compromised in terms of design, gimmicks etc due to downsizing, and
2) The compromise could have been avoided if these toys replace other "less deserving" figures in the larger size categories

The question, really, is what basis does one decide whether a toy/character deserves a particular sizing?

Sure, I'd have liked a movie-verse Blackout or Shockwave in Leader class, and I never touched any of the LC Bumblebees. But, the simple truth is that Bumblebee has more selling power overall, and at the relatively higher production costs & retail price of a LC compared to a deluxe, potential sales always has to be a deciding factor.

Does that make Bumblebee "wrongly sized"? Not from a commercial perspective.
Did it upset me? Not much, and not for long. I was disappointed for a while that there're 2 LC Bees and no Blackout in the movie lines. And I still would have preferred a voyager classed Classics Galvatron and a deluxe Bludgeon.

But I do understand that an LC Blackout was likely to shelfwarm a lot more than a Bee. LC Brawl from the first movie was, IMO, a great figure, and I had a field day choosing one from a bargain MOUNTAIN not 3 months after it's release here. And the only people who were picking Brawl from that mountain were the adult collectors. All the kids ran past it to the deluxe and voyager shelves to look for Bumblebee and Ratchet. The simple reality is that certain characters just won't have enough marketability at the larger sizes, and a business has to be practical about such things. (incidentaly, LC Brawl back then was clearing CHEAPER than a full priced Voyager Ratchet).

The Classics Galvatron was a little harder to swallow, because the downsize seemed to have been decided upon after deciding to throw out 2 tank repaints and protect them from sales cannibalisation. And Bludgeon was probably cheaper to produce as a Voyager than Galvatron simply fpr having fewer moving pieces to manufacture. But whatever my feeling were, I've moved on.

Doesn't really make the size choices "wrong" though. Simply a matter of rationale and opinion.

[Onslaught Six]

And I still would have preferred a voyager classed Classics Galvatron and a deluxe Bludgeon.

See, if Galvatron was just going to be the same toy we did get, but bigger, that would have made me even more pissed since I would've spent $20 instead of $7. (Galvatron came out during this wicked sale Wal-Mart had where all Deluxes were $7 for like four months at the end of the year. It was amazing.) Meanwhile, Bludgeon was A Comics Decepticon Leader and thus a pretty large and important guy. I'm glad he got the toy size he did--and besides, he was an ROTF toy, so it's not like he did anything to "hinder" the Classics toyline. (Also, in the context of the post-ROTF NEST toyline, Bludgeon was The Leader of at least his particular subgroup of Decepticons--presumably Lockdown and anyone else who came out in his wave.)

But I do understand that an LC Blackout was likely to shelfwarm a lot more than a Bee. LC Brawl from the first movie was, IMO, a great figure, and I had a field day choosing one from a bargain MOUNTAIN not 3 months after it's release here. And the only people who were picking Brawl from that mountain were the adult collectors. All the kids ran past it to the deluxe and voyager shelves to look for Bumblebee and Ratchet. The simple reality is that certain characters just won't have enough marketability at the larger sizes, and a business has to be practical about such things. (incidentaly, LC Brawl back then was clearing CHEAPER than a full priced Voyager Ratchet).

This! What Deathy isn't taking into account is that during Armada, Energon and Cybertron, the Leader and Supreme-class figures were guys who were, appropriately, Fucking Huge Dudes. Giant-Ass Cybertron Starscream warmed for half the toyline! Metroplex sold like butt. But generally, Optimus Primes (and usually Megatrons--not usually Galvatrons, incidentally) at least sold through pretty well. Omega Supreme didn't sell very well either, to the point where Omega Sentinel never really came out.

(Incidentally, I returned Omega Supreme when I received him as a gift. Kind of wish I hadn't.)

[annhell]

See, if Galvatron was just going to be the same toy we did get, but bigger, that would have made me even more pissed since I would've spent $20 instead of $7. (Galvatron came out during this wicked sale Wal-Mart had where all Deluxes were $7 for like four months at the end of the year. It was amazing.) Meanwhile, Bludgeon was A Comics Decepticon Leader and thus a pretty large and important guy. I'm glad he got the toy size he did--and besides, he was an ROTF toy, so it's not like he did anything to "hinder" the Classics toyline. (Also, in the context of the post-ROTF NEST toyline, Bludgeon was The Leader of at least his particular subgroup of Decepticons--presumably Lockdown and anyone else who came out in his wave.)

Somehow I always remembered Bludgeon as a Classics piece. Thanks for the info on the comic lore, though, TF comics were (and still are) hard to get here, so I never actually knew Bludgeon's significance there. But now that you've explained, yea, making him a voyager was justified.

Anyhoo, forget that comparison. I just recalled that Galvy was released much earlier anyway. My preference for Galvy as a voyager is purely based on his design, which I really think could've been better executed in a larger scale, especially if he did really lose a 3rd mode to the downsizing. But, yea, if it was simply an identical toy made bigger, that would blow.

[Onslaught Six]

Somehow I always remembered Bludgeon as a Classics piece. Thanks for the info on the comic lore, though, TF comics were (and still are) hard to get here, so I never actually knew Bludgeon's significance there. But now that you've explained, yea, making him a voyager was justified.

Most people consider Bludgeon a Classics toy released in a more convenient line, yeah.

Decepticon leadership gets a little murky in the comics. For one thing, they never do the "time jump" that TFTM and the cartoon did. Those events still "happen," but they happen in the far-off future of 2006 (the original script date) and are mostly unmentioned. So how do they manage to promote the toys? Simple! Time travel! In fact, throughout both the US and UK comics, several different Galvatrons from alternate futures end up back in the "present," which is always the literal present of the time the book was published. (Amazingly, time seems to pass on a somewhat accurate scale in the TF Marvel comics.) But none of them ever stick around to be The Decepticon Leader.

So at one point Megatron is dead and the Decepticons kind of get a little fractured. There's some Decepticon High Council or something on Cybertron who is supposed to govern and choose the supreme leader but they're mostly in the background and in UK stuff. The Decepticons kind of end up fractured. Ratbat is leading one faction and Scorponok, mostly commanding Headmasters and Pretenders, is leading another. Some stuff happens and Scorpy kills Ratbat. Meanwhile on Cybertron, Thunderwing takes over the Decepticons and sends a bunch of dudes out to look for the Matrix, including the Mayhem Attack Squad led by Bludgeon.

So basically, at the same time, Scorponok and Thunderwing were Decepticon leaders. The Mayhem Attack Squad met up with Grimlock and Jazz and Bumblebee in the core of Cybertron, and the resulting battle woke Primus up. Primus yelled really loud and woke Unicron up, a decade and a half ahead of schedule. So Unicron was Coming, and they needed the Matrix to kill him. But Thunderwing already found it. (The Matrix was starting to be corrupt by evil energy at this point. It's...strange.)

So Thunderwing gets possessed by the Matrix and becomes some weird energy being and Unicron kills him. (By the way, Unicron shows up by this point.) So then Scorponok is all, "Hey, Optimus Prime, let's do a truce, because this sucks," and he beats the shit out of Shockwave who was leading ANOTHER renegade group of Decepticons (like I said, there were a lot of them) and unites all Decepticons alongside Optimus Prime and the Autobots against Unicron. Scorponok fights Unicron during the final battle and gets killed, giving his life to save All Transformers Ever. It's pretty awesome.

So then Prime gets the Matrix and uses it against Unicron (I'm paraphrasing A LOT here) and then everything is cool. Bludgeon takes over the power void and says he's the new leader of All Decepticons. When G2 happens, he's still the leader of the main Decepticon faction. (Then there's the "G2 Decepticons" led by Jhiaxus and Liege Maximo...yeah.) Then Megatron shows up in his new G2 body and kills Bludgeon and takes over again. Yup.

Anyhoo, forget that comparison. I just recalled that Galvy was released much earlier anyway. My preference for Galvy as a voyager is purely based on his design, which I really think could've been better executed in a larger scale, especially if he did really lose a 3rd mode to the downsizing. But, yea, if it was simply an identical toy made bigger, that would blow.

From what we've seen, the design would've been pretty much identical.