What do TF:P, WFC,TF:U and Exile have to do with each other?

[JediTricks]

I just finished editing this forum section's description, adding Fall of Cybertron and Jagex's TF:Universe MMO to the mix, and it got me thinking... what does each of these expressions of this new unified universe with its "loose canon" really have to do with the others? I have only read crib notes on Exile and Exodus, and only watched a little of TF:P, but from what I've seen, this stuff doesn't line up together that well at all with WFC and its sequel nor the upcoming Jagex TF:Universe game.

The folks at Jagex told me at Botcon that Hasbro is allowing them some freedom in the regards to canon, but that they are intended to be part of that new canon, and I would assume that the developers of TF:Prime and the novels and the console games were given similar freedoms. I don't mind that at all, I find it admirable that they wish to develop new avenues of expression for TF and give them artistic license, to let those experts do what they do best instead of trying to hamstring them. But I just don't see how Hasbro intends to tell fans that it all ties together.

Moreover, I don't see how this forum actually is a viable place for conversation of both TF:P and WFC/FOC when Hasbro themselves have separated them by putting the game toys in the Generations line while TF:P remains a separate toy line. If Hasbro wisely is separating those products, how are we fans supposed to talk about them as a single entity? This is about as confusing to me as The Fallen being a multiverse singularity, except less overtly boneheaded.

[Shockwave]

My general understanding of this "unified continuity" (and I'm using that term loosely) is that the novels are kind of the basis for it. Prime is supposed to be an extension of that, WFC and FOC are basically the video game incarnations of it. I can forgive the video games not being as stuck to the hard continuity of it as that wouldn't translate very well into a video game. As for the difference between the toys, this can be reconciled as past and future versions of the same characters. WFC Megatron is Megatron from millions of years ago while TF:P Megatron is that same one "present day".

Unfortunately, one of the inherent problems with determining Transformers "canon" is that there hasn't been any one authority on what official content does or does not count. It's not like Star Trek where Paramount has said from day one that if it's not on screen it's not canon. Or Star Wars where George Lucas unilaterally says what is or is not canon. Hasbro has not done that over the years and I think now that the target audience from 25+ years ago is now calling them out on it, they're trying to do so with the content going forward. Unfortunately, they're doing it wrong. Unlike the afforementioned franchises that have officially licensed content that is not considered canon, Hasbro is trying to say that everything is canon even though the various contents somewhat contradict each other, even while at the same time supporting each other.

Anyway, here's what I've been able to determine so far: Exodus is the prequel to WFC and FOC and Prime is the sequel. And there are several basic story elements that are universal to all of them. Megatron was an energon miner turned gladiator who befriended Orion Pax. They both had the same ideal of freeing Cybertron from an oppressive caste system, but they're methodologies differ. Megatron wanted to use brute force where Orion wanted to use diplomacy. The ruling senate had it's own agenda and when they saw the rebel cause gaining popularity decided to make Orion Pax their new Prime as a poster child for the existing system so that they could keep their jobs. And we essentially know what happens from there: Megs starts the Decepticons, Prime starts the Autobots and the battle it out and eventually wind up on Earth. Lather rinse, repeat.

EDIT: And we've even seen traces of this "unified continuity" slipping into the comics as well. In the last issues of the ongoing we see Cybertron pre war where Megatron was a miner and Optimus was Orion the archivist (in this case, he was a records clerk at a courthouse). Megatron and Orion still had the same ideals, and the same methodologies but the specific events were different than in other iterations of the "unified continuity".

[Onslaught Six]

Anyway, here's what I've been able to determine so far: Exodus is the prequel to WFC and FOC and Prime is the sequel. And there are several basic story elements that are universal to all of them. Megatron was an energon miner turned gladiator who befriended Orion Pax. They both had the same ideal of freeing Cybertron from an oppressive caste system, but they're methodologies differ. Megatron wanted to use brute force where Orion wanted to use diplomacy. The ruling senate had it's own agenda and when they saw the rebel cause gaining popularity decided to make Orion Pax their new Prime as a poster child for the existing system so that they could keep their jobs. And we essentially know what happens from there: Megs starts the Decepticons, Prime starts the Autobots and the battle it out and eventually wind up on Earth. Lather rinse, repeat.

Exodus and WFC have a fair bit of overlap. The latter ends of Exodus basically contain a play-by-play rundown of the events that happen in WFC, but basically assume you've played the game to get details. Entire levels of WFC are basically summed up as "And then Megatron killed Sentinel/Zeta Prime," or "And then the Autobots fought Trypticon."

EDIT: And we've even seen traces of this "unified continuity" slipping into the comics as well. In the last issues of the ongoing we see Cybertron pre war where Megatron was a miner and Optimus was Orion the archivist (in this case, he was a records clerk at a courthouse). Megatron and Orion still had the same ideals, and the same methodologies but the specific events were different than in other iterations of the "unified continuity".

While that might be a concious attempt, Megatron has been a miner and gladiator before--this was the premise of Megatron Origin, which was IDW canon from when it was released. (Even though it was written as a DW story.)

[Shockwave]

While that might be a concious attempt, Megatron has been a miner and gladiator before--this was the premise of Megatron Origin, which was IDW canon from when it was released. (Even though it was written as a DW story.)

True but I was referring more to the part where Orion and Megatron are shown to have the same ideals and goals. Like when Orion hands Megatron the data pad with his disertation about the ruling class on it and tells him to "keep it up". And later when Orion decides to confront the High Council. The details might be different from Exodus but there's still "a confrontation". Megatron: Origin already showed how Megatron confronted that situation, by sending in Soundwave and the Seekers.

[JediTricks]

Unfortunately, one of the inherent problems with determining Transformers "canon" is that there hasn't been any one authority on what official content does or does not count. It's not like Star Trek where Paramount has said from day one that if it's not on screen it's not canon. Or Star Wars where George Lucas unilaterally says what is or is not canon. Hasbro has not done that over the years and I think now that the target audience from 25+ years ago is now calling them out on it, they're trying to do so with the content going forward. Unfortunately, they're doing it wrong. Unlike the afforementioned franchises that have officially licensed content that is not considered canon, Hasbro is trying to say that everything is canon even though the various contents somewhat contradict each other, even while at the same time supporting each other.

Well, Hasbro can say they have a multiverse with previous works, but now that Hasbro is going forward on a new single-universe canon, they should be able to make clearer what goes where, and yet they're still being quite lax about it.

Anyway, here's what I've been able to determine so far: Exodus is the prequel to WFC and FOC and Prime is the sequel. And there are several basic story elements that are universal to all of them. Megatron was an energon miner turned gladiator who befriended Orion Pax. They both had the same ideal of freeing Cybertron from an oppressive caste system, but they're methodologies differ. Megatron wanted to use brute force where Orion wanted to use diplomacy. The ruling senate had it's own agenda and when they saw the rebel cause gaining popularity decided to make Orion Pax their new Prime as a poster child for the existing system so that they could keep their jobs. And we essentially know what happens from there: Megs starts the Decepticons, Prime starts the Autobots and the battle it out and eventually wind up on Earth. Lather rinse, repeat.

Exodus and WFC cross over in timelines, telling the same stories with different details. FOC directly follows WFC but also tells the same story as the end of Exodus, again with different details. Exiles covers the time after Exodus and before Prime. TF:Universe MMO will play loosely with Cybertronian and Earth environments so it has to either come after Prime or during Prime.

Be thankful I'm leaving the Chinese TF:Online out of it.


Anyway, my question wasn't so much timeline issues as it is about the themes, tones, messages, and designs of each being sorta different.

[Shockwave]

Oh. well in that case I think the best that could be said is that each thing is that same "universe" in that particular adaptation. Like Exodus and Exiles is the novelization adaptation of that universe. WFC and FOC is the video game interpretation. Prime is the cartoon interpretation and so on and so forth. But yeah, Hasbro is screwing it up. Which is why I really think they should just stay out of it and be happy with a constantly multiversal system.

[Dominic]

They are all "Transformers" series. TF:P, WRC, FoC, TF:U and the novels are all TF series that are not "Last Stand of the Wreckers", and are inferior for it.

Screw them all.

The problem is that Hasbro proper has guys handling the IP who are not even completely clear on the terms and definitions that are used to describe content and context. (Remember the "all in the same universe" comment from last year?)

Operationally, Hasbro has given up on a unified setting. There are so many contradictions at this point that it is impossible to see them as being truly "Aligned". As this point, it is probably best to look at all of the series listed here as being part of the officially sanctioned multiverse that is under Hasbro's direct control. The "Prime" timeline, represented by the brand bible (and to a lesser extent the toys and novels), is the "prime" timeline from which all others branch. The "Aligned" setting, (cannot call it a "continuity" at this point), consists of several timelines.

OR, mayber not.

But, who the hell cares? I do not have a hard cover of "Last Stand of the Wreckers", and the hobby now sucks for it.


Dom
-speaking from hurt.

[JediTricks]

Oh. well in that case I think the best that could be said is that each thing is that same "universe" in that particular adaptation. Like Exodus and Exiles is the novelization adaptation of that universe. WFC and FOC is the video game interpretation. Prime is the cartoon interpretation and so on and so forth. But yeah, Hasbro is screwing it up. Which is why I really think they should just stay out of it and be happy with a constantly multiversal system.

That sounds to me like 6 different universes telling somewhat-overlapping stories, not the same universe.

The problem is that Hasbro proper has guys handling the IP who are not even completely clear on the terms and definitions that are used to describe content and context. (Remember the "all in the same universe" comment from last year?)

I think the guys you mention are Archer and Rik Alvarez, they had a whole panel about it at Botcon last year, I ended up doing other convention-writing work and then walking out because the panel was so dry and didn't really seem to have anything good to say. Both of them should be masters of expressing what's going on, especially Archer who has been with the brand a very long time and helmed the toy line and media expressions directly before moving on to this IP thing.

Operationally, Hasbro has given up on a unified setting. There are so many contradictions at this point that it is impossible to see them as being truly "Aligned". As this point, it is probably best to look at all of the series listed here as being part of the officially sanctioned multiverse that is under Hasbro's direct control. The "Prime" timeline, represented by the brand bible (and to a lesser extent the toys and novels), is the "prime" timeline from which all others branch. The "Aligned" setting, (cannot call it a "continuity" at this point), consists of several timelines.

Uhhhhh... I think I've gone crosseyed.

[Dominic]

The UT made it official that TF exists in a multiverse. Since then, the Fan Club has parsed it by sub-franchise and even dates of publication. In theory, if you have the naming convention itself memorized, you can figure out which timeline any given story (including those yet to be published) is set in.

At this point, it is probably best to look at Hasbro's "Aligned" setting as a cluster or grouping of timelines that are where Hasbro has direct control, rather than the veto they have over IDW or shared control of the Paramount timelines.


Dom
-and as is often the case, "multiple timelines" means "poor editing".

[Shockwave]

That sounds to me like 6 different universes telling somewhat-overlapping stories, not the same universe.

Ok, think of it this way: A movie comes out. You've got the movie, you've got the novelization of the movie and then you've got the video game of the movie. These three items are not going to be the same but they will have the same core characters, settings and story. But, a movie is not a novel and a novel is not a video game. By that alone there's going to be significant differences but most people wouldn't really regard those differences as "separate continuities", it's just the same thing rearranged to work in those particular mediums. The "aligned" continuity is the same conceptually.