TF Views

mean what's really the difference between Grimlock's Energon Sword or a +3 flaming broadsword?

Vocabulary. That is the biggest meaningful difference.

Play the original "Legend of Zelda" and the original "Metal Gear". They are substantively the same despite looking a bit different.

Jet boots are the same as boots stitched from the hide of an air dragon...or some such.

The "science" of most science fiction definitely tends towards the fictional side more than the science. The physics and logic of main-stream science fiction are laughable. It makes as much sense as ghosts and goblins. Some might even argue that sci-fi makes less sense, if only for its pretense of crediblity.

Dominic wrote:Jet boots are the same as boots stitched from the hide of an air dragon...or some such.

Except jet boots is something conceivably possible to invent with the right technologies, while 'hide of an air dragon' could never exist being based on a purely fictional creature. Again, there is more than just a difference in vocabulary here Dom.

The "science" of most science fiction definitely tends towards the fictional side more than the science. The physics and logic of main-stream science fiction are laughable. It makes as much sense as ghosts and goblins. Some might even argue that sci-fi makes less sense, if only for its pretense of crediblity.

Obviously a lot of what science fiction covers isn't possible with our (current) understanding of science and/or level of technology, so authors have to be a creative in inventing ways to explain these fictional ideas as being feasible. And it requires the audience to have some suspension of disbelief. The point is that science fiction tries to come up with logical (or at least pseudo-logical) ways to explore possibilities within the realm of science. Fantasy doesn't do that at all. Again, there is a bigger difference between the two genres that you aren't recognizing Dom, and honestly, I think you're misrepresenting what sci-fi is.

Sparky Prime wrote:pseudo-logical

...Logic is an absolute. Yeah, I'm out of this one. =p

Gomess wrote:...Logic is an absolute. Yeah, I'm out of this one. =p

Perhaps some logic (is there more than one type) but yeah... Pseudo-logic is just a method of reasoning that initially seems solid but upon closer inspection is determined not to work. Given authors do have to make up some stuff for science-fiction, sometimes they have to invent some logic that sounds good on paper but doesn't actually work, hence, 'pseudo'.

Sparky Prime wrote:Except jet boots is something conceivably possible to invent with the right technologies, while 'hide of an air dragon' could never exist being based on a purely fictional creature. Again, there is more than just a difference in vocabulary here Dom.

Yeah, but from a story perspective, they're both shoes that let ya fly. Which is all you need to know.

Onslaught Six wrote:

Gomess wrote:Man, isn't it funny how BW still prompts more debate than any other TF series? ...No, not really I guess.

I know! Has there *ever* been a BW-related thread on this board that didn't derail into "I hate BW because of its fandom!" or "I hate BW because of this!" or "I hate BW because of that!"

And it's typically never because it's not Geewun!

My posts anyway, are usually more like, "Against all odds, I don't hate BW because of this or that!".

I think BW gets more discussion simply because there's so much to it to discuss. It's a series that had a lot going on, and caused a lot of things to happen, both in TF fiction, and fandom. There's a lot of fuel for discussion and arguing and so forth. As opposed to say, me saying "I love Energon!" and you saying "But Energon was really really stupid!" and me saying "I agree, but I enjoyed the hell out of it anyway!", and that being that.

Guaranteed endless-reply topics on TFV: Beast Wars and All Hail Megatron.

BWprowl wrote:Yeah, but from a story perspective, they're both shoes that let ya fly. Which is all you need to know.

In the most basic sense of what it's function in the story is maybe... But I wouldn't agree that's all you need to know about it from the story perspective. How it's able to fly (by technology or magic) makes a difference to the story itself.

Sparky Prime wrote:

BWprowl wrote:Yeah, but from a story perspective, they're both shoes that let ya fly. Which is all you need to know.

In the most basic sense of what it's function in the story is maybe...

That's all we meant. We weren't making any comparisons beyond that. In fact we were limiting the comparison to just that. And only that. My comment about the difference between Grimlocks sword and a fire sword, well they could serve the same purpose. Most sci fi stories could be told in a fantasy setting and reasonably still have the same elements in them.

Shockwave wrote:That's all we meant. We weren't making any comparisons beyond that. In fact we were limiting the comparison to just that. And only that.

Just because two different things do the same basic function, that doesn't mean they are interchangeable. You're changing the fundamental story, turning it into something else if you try to substitute elements from different genres like that.

Most sci fi stories could be told in a fantasy setting and reasonably still have the same elements in them.

It stops being science fiction if it's got fantasy in it or vise versa. What you're talking about here is actually a separate genre called science fantasy.

i think my brain just fell out u gaiz

Sparky Prime wrote:You're changing the fundamental story

No one is doing that! Dom and Trekwave are purposefully restricting their discourse to *narrative function*, and not touching on story- or even plot- at all! D8

Gomess wrote:No one is doing that! Dom and Trekwave are purposefully restricting their discourse to *narrative function*, and not touching on story- or even plot- at all! D8

It isn't possible to just substitute an element that ingrained in the genre with out having an effect on the story. Look at fantasy, the use of magic/supernatural phenomena is the primary element in the plot/theme and/or setting. Replace that magic with technology. Imagine Frodo carrying around a cloaking device instead of the One Ring. If it still turns him invisible it's the same thing right? No, suddenly it's a very different story.