TF Views

Rattrap is one of the few "out-of-character" moments that BM has (and there *are* a bit of them) that I can still justify, but we've been over that. I never denied that BM had this fault. It definitely does. It's a problem with the series. But the rest of it was so kickass (and BW is overrated so much) that I can let it go.

I don't really have much useful to contribute, here, but did just want to say that I'm totally in favor of Beast Machines. I rewatched rather a lot of it recently, and was just amazed by how well it holds up.

I've probably gone on before about how much I love the crazy stylized look of the show. Seriously, not only did they give us an amazing new look for Cybertronians, but they gave us two amazing new looks for Cybertronians. I love the Vehicon designs as much as much as anyone here, but the Maximal redesigns in show just blew me right away. Even Rattrap. Hell, especially Rattrap. Such a strange look for him, but I really dug it. And Blackarachnia. And man, how about Prime's ape mode? That thing was a thing of beauty. If they could give me a Masterpiece version of that thing that was all show-accurate, I'd be right on it.

I honestly never worried that terribly much about anyone seeming out-of-character, though. This was the days before these shows were out on DVD, so maybe it was just that I didn't have that to compare it to. Or maybe I just got caught up in the story enough to let it go.

Anyway, totally pro-Beast Machines. Great stuff.

138 Scourge wrote:And man, how about Prime's ape mode? That thing was a thing of beauty. If they could give me a Masterpiece version of that thing that was all show-accurate, I'd be right on it.

How about this? http://www.tfu.info/2002/Maximal/Suprem ... primal.htm

Supreme class Air Attack Optimus Primal, came out as part of the RID line. I remember seeing them for $30 at Toys R Us.

I've got that guy. In fact, typing up this post just inspired me to dig him out of storage. He's close, to be sure, but there's a lot of neat detail on the show model, not to mention a lot of the proportions, that just don't quite match up.

Not that I'm complaining, mind you. Obviously I liked it well enough, because I bought the sucker, but I'd buy another one if it was more like the show variety.

That is a fun toy, though. I like the jetpack effect. The voice clips are funny, though. "Maximize!" for instance. He said that once in Beast Machines. And it didn't work. Perfect line to commemorate in action figure form.

Optimus Primal reminds me of Guts Man, for some reason. Which version of Guts Man, I haven't determined yet.

I hated the looks of all the Maximals, both cartoon and toy versions; I was never convinced of their "transmorphing" (mostly because the "body parts melt into and out of glowy light" animation for them didn't give the impression of them "transforming" to me so much as "they are the mutant offspring of the T-1000", and I never got why they just HAD to say "I am Transformed" nearly every time they turned into their robot modes, despite Optimus clearly stating in an early episode that their transformations weren't dictated by a code-word...don't give me this crap about how it's "a mantra" to find their center, if they don't have to say it to transform, they SHOULDN'T have to say it, otherwise it DOES invoke the code-words they used to rely on), and for the most part, their bodies always seemed way too deformed and out of proportion to be believable, even in an "alien geometry" way; from generally humanesque to the deformed love children of Species 8472, Bayformers, and Anthrocon? No thank you.

The toys were just atrocious, in my opinion; the plastic was cheap, and the connectors for the various bits were even cheaper; weak plastic rod-hinges that not only used plastic for the hinges but plastic for the rods, themselves, naked springs in place of actual articulation (Thank you, freaking Buzzsaw, you are the bane of my existence), and they can't seem to make up their minds on whether to use hard or soft plastic for the toys. I had five official BM Maximal toys of this kind: Snarl, Buzzsaw, Hammerstrike, Longhorn and Battle Unicorn. And these are the problems I had with them:

Snarl: Not too much problem, my favorite out of the bunch. Only thing that bugs me is the robot "head' is just a naked faceplate with no back to it to stabilize it, so it keeps on shifting around. Was planning on doing some minor alterating to it to make the beast head the robot head, as well, so I can turn him into Maximal Steeljaw.

Buzzsaw: Goddamn naked spring arm. I hate it with a passion that burns hotter than an energon sun. Why? Why a naked spring arm? Something that can be stretched out and distorted to the point of irreparability and uselessness? All it would take is one good tug on that spring, and the toy is reduced to more crap than it already is. What, they didn't think a perfectly good arm and ball joint would do the trick?

Battle Unicorn: Shoulder pads, shoulder pads, SHOULDER PADS!!! Goddamn shoulder pads keep on popping off each time I try transforming him (and he's got such a goddamn nuisance of a transformation, nearly break the toy in half each time I try to shift him into robot mode), that I'm surprised they haven't broke off, for good. Getting his mane/tail/battle axe out of his beast mode during the transformation is hell, too.

Hammerstrike: So much soft plastic, it's not even funny; can't keep the damn figure to stay in beast mode, properly, because the soft plastic keeps on wanting to shift around. I also remember him and Buzzsaw being way too spindly to properly stand upright, in either form.

Longhorn: The head joint became way too loose way too quickly, and I hated how its transformation was basically "Stand up, flip head down and up, robot is complete". It's something I hated with the early batches of the BW scouts, but at least with those,t hey had the auto-transform gimmick, and they moved out of that, after they started synching the toy line with the cartoon.

Honestly, except for the Dinobots that were released in the line (which were all BW II or BW Neo imports, I believe, I forgot which), none of the Maximal figures I particularly cared for. RiD Bruticus I like, if only because of his unusual modes. Still don't like how wasp-waisted he is; couldn't they extend the "chestplate" down to give him some stomach? And what's with the funky "unfolding" of his robot mode arm? Really, was there no way of relying on ONE elbow joint, and fixing it so the upper arm telescoped into the lower arm?


The Vehicon models, I'll admit, were fairly okay, though if I got any toys, I'd stick with the more "traditional" models (this is the cartoon that made me loathe Michael Bay for bringing back Unicyclotrons in RotF. Just...why?). Had Thrust, Tank Drone, Jetstorm (Ultra) and jet drone, Scavenger, and Mirage, and out of all of them, Scavenger and Mirage were my favorites; as I said, I hated the "living unicycle" look of Thrust, Jetstorm, and the jet drone, and the tank drone reminded me too much of the crappy Machine Wars Soundwave toy I used to have to like. Scavenger outlived its fun, pretty quickly, but at least I could have tried to kitbash it into a tiny Johnny 5 figure. Mirage, though, was cool; good design, good color scheme, nice functional alternatives to spring-loaded missile weapons...overall, pretty impressive. I would've grabbed Spy Streak/Nightcruz and Megabolt Megatron (evil floating head of doom FTW), if I had the money.

SynjoDeonecros wrote:
Longhorn: The head joint became way too loose way too quickly, and I hated how its transformation was basically "Stand up, flip head down and up, robot is complete".

This. Reminds me of that dude from "Silverhawks" that did the same thing. But the bull mode does look pretty neat in it's way, and I think the hooves being tonfas in the robot's hands is a clever bit of sculpting. I don't recall being that impressed by him, but I don't think I hated him.

138 Scourge wrote:And man, how about Prime's ape mode? That thing was a thing of beauty. If they could give me a Masterpiece version of that thing that was all show-accurate, I'd be right on it.

Ever see this?
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_PX0o2_aJqt0/R ... Primal.jpg

138 Scourge wrote:That is a fun toy, though. I like the jetpack effect. The voice clips are funny, though. "Maximize!" for instance. He said that once in Beast Machines. And it didn't work. Perfect line to commemorate in action figure form.

RID had a *lot* of problems with this. Fire Convoy's US voice chip says, "Optimus Prime! Maximize!"

SynjoDeonecros wrote:Buzzsaw: Goddamn naked spring arm. I hate it with a passion that burns hotter than an energon sun. Why? Why a naked spring arm? Something that can be stretched out and distorted to the point of irreparability and uselessness? All it would take is one good tug on that spring, and the toy is reduced to more crap than it already is. What, they didn't think a perfectly good arm and ball joint would do the trick?

Ever look at the box pic? He was supposed to have a different arm, but it didn't work out. Also, you've never heard the Tigger parody that Zobovor did? It made me go from just liking Buzzsaw to loving him:

The wonderful thing about Buzzsaw
Is that Buzzsaw's a wonderful thing!
His head is made out of rubber!
His arm is made from a spring!

Honestly, except for the Dinobots that were released in the line (which were all BW II or BW Neo imports, I believe, I forgot which), none of the Maximal figures I particularly cared for. RiD Bruticus I like, if only because of his unusual modes. Still don't like how wasp-waisted he is; couldn't they extend the "chestplate" down to give him some stomach? And what's with the funky "unfolding" of his robot mode arm? Really, was there no way of relying on ONE elbow joint, and fixing it so the upper arm telescoped into the lower arm?

See, part of what I love about Bruty is that he does weird crap like that. And those arms are consistant with his second set of arms, which do the exact same thing.

and the tank drone reminded me too much of the crappy Machine Wars Soundwave toy I used to have to like.

Woah woah woah. You are treading into dangerous territory. Machine Wars Soundwave is Stalker, and Stalker is a Euro G1 exclusive. That's my bread and butter you're fuckin' with. [/Ofdensen]

I like how Bruty's transformation can put him in a sort of centaur mode; I can just see him using that as a legitimate mode for quick transport or battle. That would be cool: centaur-mode Bruty charging into battle with one of his fellow Maximals/Predacons on his back like jousting knights.

And I hated MW Soundwave; it was just a brick with a non-working missile on its shoulder. Where's the fun in that? I remember dinking around with it on my way home from visiting my grandparents in Arizona, and I was not impressed with it, in the least.

That's how every Transformer was in 1992. It's kind of a theme. Plus, the missile launchers were gutted from *all* the larger Machine Wars toys from their original European versions because they were stupidly dangerous for children. Stalker had a kickass handgun missile launcher, and all the Predators had this awesome gimmick where you plugged the smaller jets into either Stalker's missile or Skyquake's jet mode and you could look and see what Autobot they were targeting. Sure, he's got lesser articulation, but all TFs from his era did. It's just to be expected.

Also, they all had ridiculously awesome neon colour schemes. Because [stupid fanon] Euro G1/early G2 takes place in a post-apocalyptic Earth (pre-BWII) that's devastated by nuclear war and they need to use neon Energon armour to shield themselves from the radiation. G2 Bruticus retroactively fits into the continuity (but of course, those are different characters. Onslaught II and the like.) [/stupid fanon]

*bangs head against wall* Gah! Seems like I can't escape the "Beast Machines is awesome" debate, even if I go on another, unrelated board!

I posted a thread on a message board of one of my favorite Sonic comic writers, bringing up Dominic's theories on story structure and characters as tools and whatnot, and asking for opinions on there about it, since, y'know, I'd figured a professional writer would have some insight on this. Unfortunately, some Transformers fan on there saw "Beast Machines", assumed I was trying to bring a discussion about it, and derailed the entire thing by posting his opinions about the show and the characters therein.

What really gets me, though, was his assessment of Megatron, specifically that his personality change in Beast Machines was logical, because he already had it throughout Beast Wars. According to him, he had always hated free will and organics, citing his flagrant disregard for his minions in BW (and his desire to keep them loyal, which he interprets as "being his mindless puppets") and the fact that, according to him, the only evidence we had of him liking his beast mode was for its power as examples.

I'm sorry, but what? I don't think even Dominic would go so far as to try and shoehorn Megs' Beast Machines personality into Beast Wars. There's just no comparison; There is virtually no evidence whatsoever that BW Megs disliked organics, as a whole - yes, he mainly liked his beast mode for its power, and he did dislike the protohumans for their role in Transformers history and their interference, once the Maximals taught them how to defend themselves, but there's virtually nothing that suggests he was against organics in general, and even used the protohumans in some of his plans. And he seemed happy to let his minions do what they wanted to do, as long as they stayed loyal to him, and didn't plot against him; in fact, he made it his business to use their own plans to his advantage, something he wouldn't have done, if he was inherently gung-ho against free will. He mentioned all of the clones he made of Dinobot as an example of his wanting to replace his minions with drones, but he seems to be forgetting that ALL of those clones were either used as a decoy plot, or to test out the Transmetal 2 driver, and Dinobot II, while extremely loyal to Megs, had his own personality and independence.

I can see how people can use Beast Wars as an example of what CHANGED his opinion on free will and organics (even though I don't agree with them, and there's nothing in either show to show that), but this guy is using it as proof that he's ALWAYS had that opinion, which I don't think even the most die-hard BM fan would agree on.