Combiner Wars

[BWprowl]

On a more topical note, I saw Dragstrip and Alpha Bravo last night.

Ugh. They are a step down from Hasbro's recent standard. Yup, they are that bad.

I have found myself trying to talk myself in to the 2012 Combaticons, even last year's Jetfore. (Never saw Metroplex at retail, so I could not really talk myself into that one.) These? Utter shit.

I have to wonder if we're looking at completely different toys. I grabbed Bravo and Strip yesterday and was very impressed with them. Even given my apologetic nature towards Hasbro's recent offerings, it's plain as day that these are WAY above what we got for the past year or so. Comparing these unfavorably to the Combaticons? Laughable. These are larger, more solid, more complex (and they even have a fair bit of paint on them).

The exposed combiner plugs in the robot chests look worse in person than in the pictures. It looks like Hasbro considered making the panel lines match up between the plug sections and the main body pieces at the concept stage, and then gave up when making the figure. Does Hasbro use CAM programs? Obviously, they should be. But, these figures are cause to wonder if Hasbro is bothering, given that some of the visual problems could have been mitigated with slight tweaks at the design stage.

I still haven't been told (preferably by you) why Combiner components having Combiner plugs in the chest is a 'visual problem'. They have ALWAYS been there as components of the design, to the point that you could argue it's a PART of the chest design. It just looks like different-colored chest greebles, something tons of different TFs have, and in this case it actually has a functional reason to be there. What is so offensively wrong with it? (Incidentally, I was looking at pictures of the other upcoming Stunticons, and Breakdown and Dead End actually have their plugs covered up in robot mode, but their chests still have different-colored parts on them, so I guess that would still be a problem?). I'll admit that Drag Strip's FOUR screws on the front is kind of overkill and his chest being otherwise ENTIRELY YELLOW doesn't look great, but it's a single issue and doesn't result in the toy being a plastic reincarnation of Hitler the way you seem to think it does.

Even discounting the chest-pegs, the figures look like something from a decade ago.

Can you for once actually explain what this means? What about the toys looks 'old'? Specifically? What looks so outdated about them? Point out specific details, compare them to examples, and make me understand what this is about because you bring it up all the time and I *never understand what you are talking about*. It doesn't help that I don't even see how figures from Classics (or Cybertron, or RiD...) look 'old' or 'outdated', they still look perfectly 'modern' to me. Toy sculpting and engineering simply hasn't advanced any further. I hardly believe it CAN advance any further.

[Dominic]

The combiner plugs are too exposed, making the figures look incomplete.


The newer deluxes have less articulation than figures from 5 years ago. The new hands are back to being blocks with holes drilled in to them (making them look more primitive than stuff from 5 years ago). Generally, there are more gaps and exposed areas on the newer figures than on figures from 5 years ago.

It may be hard for toys to get much better than they were 5 years ago, but Hasbro has downgraded their product.

[BWprowl]

The combiner plugs are too exposed, making the figures look incomplete.

Fine, I guess I jus' dun' geddit. You got a slot in the chest, and that slot is filled by the peg. There's nothing incomplete there, but whatever.

The newer deluxes have less articulation than figures from 5 years ago.

Drag Strip and Alpha Bravo both sport ball-jointed heads, ball shoulders, bicep swivels, elbows that can bend past 90 degrees, waists, ball hips, mid-thigh swivels (which I know you hate, for some arcane reason) and knees. Drag Strip even has joints that work as ankles in Robot Mode. The only things they're 'missing' are wrists, and I still maintain that those were not 'standard' enough to be expected at the price point (and they do have waists, which are also generally considered a 'luxury' articulation point on these toys).

The new hands are back to being blocks with holes drilled in to them (making them look more primitive than stuff from 5 years ago).

Have you actually looked at the hands on these? There's nothing 'block' about them, they're fully-sculpted hands with fingers and joints and thumbs and everything molded and detailed in, just sculpted in a fist. Which is better than the open hands Hasbro was trying for a while there, since the open hands always always look like shit with weapons in them, and fists are better for action/battle poses anyway.

Generally, there are more gaps and exposed areas on the newer figures than on figures from 5 years ago.

Where? Even I was impressed that places like the legs on Drag Strip and Alpha Bravo didn't have hollow sides to them. Bravo in particular has a very clean Robot Mode and a nearly kibble-free vehicle mode.

It may be hard for toys to get much better than they were 5 years ago, but Hasbro has downgraded their product.

Nah, TFs are still at about the same level they've always been.

[Onslaught Six]

I think this open-hand closed-hand thing is just a matter of preference. Like Prowl, I've always been more of a fan of the "blocks with holes" fist hands. They're a big part of what makes a TF look like...a TF. Which, a lot of those little details are why I got into the line and what I liked about it.

[Dominic]

The block fists look dated. The open hands look better for static poses.

Back on topic: I picked up two limbs (Skydive and Firefly) on sale a Target. The decision was a combination (no pun intended) of fatigue, being annoyed at not finding the new Legends and a degree of sentiment about those two characters. (Fireflight/fly was the only Aerialbot limb I had as a kid. And, I have some fondness for Skydive.)


Both are better than I expected them to be. But, the bar for that was low to start with.

Hasbro spent money designing the legs, also the back section of the jet modes. The legs use jointing and hinges to accomplish the same effect as the telescoping legs on the G1 figures. (Given Hasbro's current plastic quality, I tend to think that telescoping legs would break/wear down quickly.) This allows the arm modes to have proper elbow articulation, along with should and wrist articulation. (If I am guessing right, the same engineering scheme is applies to the front end of Alpha Bravo's helicopter form.)

The engineering on the legs feels like a rare treat now, but it used to be something we could just expect from Hasbro with "Transformers" as a line. And, it accents weak design elsewhere.

The robot chests look unfinished (less offensively so on Skydive, owing to the black plastic hiding gaps better than the white). And, Firefight's feet are moulded at roughly 10-degree angle, allowing the figure to stand with slightly splayed feed. It looks good, but it also serves as a reminder of when deluxe (even some scout) class figures had articulated ankles. The robot arms are visible on both jets, and are particularly offensive on Fireflight.

Much like the figures, the combiner appendages are better than the low expectations I had. The make excellent feet. And, the hand mode uses some clever cheats. (There is hole moulded on both sides of the hand mode that can be used to create the illusion of the merged-form holding a gun in a semi-articulated fist.) However, the gun modes of the feet/hands look like poor fan-modes.


Over-all: C/D
Worth a look on sale, especially if you are curious about the toys or have a sentimental attachment to the characters. Not worth full price as individual figures unless the merge forms (and by extension the core-leader figures) are much better than one might expect.

[Onslaught Six]

It looks good, but it also serves as a reminder of when deluxe (even some scout) class figures had articulated ankles.

I'll never understand this viewpoint in this toyline. Nothing has ever been "standard" in TF. It's the biggest crapshoot toyline in the history of toylines. I remember seeing stock photos of Classics Rodimus and wondering if he had articulated hips! This was a serious concern!

You talk about "when they were standard" but just look at Jazz and Scourge, two toys released around the same time with different articulation. None of the original Classics had ankle articulation, even the big figures like Prime and Jetfire. Universe 2.0 was a huge crapshoot. Wrists, too! Prowl had wrists but no ankles; Galvatron sorta had ankles but no wrists. Cyclonus has neither! Some dudes have ball jointed heads. Some dudes have swivels. Some got waists, some don't. It all depends on the dude.

[Shockwave]

(If I am guessing right, the same engineering scheme is applies to the front end of Alpha Bravo's helicopter form.)

You are correct. Picked up Alpha Bravo and RID15 Strongarm at Target on Friday. Alpha Bravo is clearly meant to evoke the look of Slingshot but I don't think Hasbro actually intends for him to be an update of that character and the story in the IDW comics goes along with that. Naming aside, I wasn't sure how I would like seeing a helicopter as part of what used to be an all jet merge team but having this in hand I can see this working and still looking consistent in merged mode. AB himself is pretty decently articulated. I've actually been pulling out and fiddling with my Classics/Universe/Generations figures recently and it seems that O6 and Prowl are right about things not being standard. Even as late as Thursday, I was transforming Generations Warpath, who has neither wrist now ankle articulation and thinking "I will never need another version of this at this scale". AB's articulation is at least on par with Warpath and he can actually take some pretty decent poses. The one thing I did notice is the feet transformation seems to use the same engineering that was used on Classics Astrotrain. The front of the helicopter just splays out to form the feet and also reveals the hole for the merge form hand/foot. The other thing that's been a topic on here has been the combiner ports not being hidden in bot mode. Honestly, this doesn't bother me very much unto itself, but AB does seem to have some gapping going on in the chest area. It's not enough to bug me to write off the figure completely, but I do wish that they had perhaps made those ports a little bigger to help fill in the chest.

Transformation is pretty straightforward, but it does have some complexity to it. The package actually states that it takes 13 steps to transform it. The front part as mentioned above works just like Clastrotrain. Split the front end and the nose pegs to the side of the foot while the windows become the toes. But, rather than telescoping, the upper legs fold out like Dom mentioned, which as he also stated allows for the combined limb to have proper articulation. The chest part is actually pretty simple. turn the head around and stick it under the back of the tail and fold the blade down onto the copter mode. The arms just peg into the sides and just kinda hang there. It would be more offensive if they didn't have missiles molded into the sides to make them look like they actually belong there rather than just having robot kibble on the side of the copter, but I could see this being a problem if other CW limb figures follow this without some way of similarly disguising the fact that the arms are just hanging there.

Copter mode is exactly that: A helicopter. Not much to say about it other than it's sleek enough to look like it can blend in seamlessly with a team of jets. The only thing I can think of with this is that functionally I'm not sure a copter would be able to keep up with fighter jets speed-wise, but that's hardly a knock against the figure itself.

AB comes with two accessories: A gun and the combiner piece. The hand/foot/gun thing is actually pretty decent in all modes, I even think it looks decent as a gun (depending on how you transform it). I folded the thumb down so the tip was between the back of the barrels and it just looks like a big ass double cannon when AB is holding it.

Overall I have to say that I would highly recommend Alpha Bravo. He's a new character and a new addition to an original team and manages to be something new and different without feeling like it's taking anything away from the original. Of all the CW figures that have been seen so far, this was the one that I was a little unsure of but now, any concerns I had are abated. Decent articulation in bot mode, looks good in alt mode and will also make a good combiner limb. If this is the start of CW, I'm eager for the rest of it and look forward to having all of them. It should also be noted that buying this one means I'm in CW for the long haul, I don't do incomplete combiners. The hunt is now on for the rest of the Aerialbots and the Stunticons too, once they come out.

A couple of random thoughts that are only sort of related to this. It occurs to me that I was lucky enough in my youth to never have an incomplete merge set. And the only merge set I did not have was Predaking. Also, I can't help wondering if the merge form Optimus Prime set is supposed to be a larger Prime to go against Leader class megatron. This could account for the difference in the two figures. The idea is that Megatron is so much bigger and more powerful than Optimus that Prime needs to merge with other Autobots to be strong enough to fight him. Maybe not, buuuuuuut.... it's an idea. One last final thought and this also applies to RID 15 toys: There's no write ups or character bio anywhere on the packaging. The card included with AB doesn't have anything on it either. This seems like a pretty big oversight to me. I mean, if I or a kid or something is looking at different characters in stores, shouldn't there be something on them for me to tell which ones would be appealing beyond just "that one is a helicopter"? I mean, maybe not, but I just thought it was odd.

[Almighty Unicron]

So how about that rumored titan class Devastator? I'm cautiously optimistic, mostly becuase I've always been OCD about having equal amounts of autobots and decepticons from a given line in a given size class because I tend to make my displays nice and symmetrical, so a devastator the size of my metroplex is something I'm keen on... even if my metroplex has been a bit of a disappointment and I'm not super big on these combiner wars guys.

[Shockwave]

So how about that rumored titan class Devastator? I'm cautiously optimistic, mostly becuase I've always been OCD about having equal amounts of autobots and decepticons from a given line in a given size class because I tend to make my displays nice and symmetrical, so a devastator the size of my metroplex is something I'm keen on... even if my metroplex has been a bit of a disappointment and I'm not super big on these combiner wars guys.

I see two possible scenarios: 1: It'll be actually scaled to the rest of the CW figures and the same size as the rest of the Merge groups, or B: It'll be titan class... but won't transform. Into anything. I know which of the two I'd prefer.

Of course there is the possibility that Devestator could be made up of appropriately sized bots to make a titan class Devastator, but I just don't see it. Unless it's in the really early stages of development. I just don't see Hasbro merging 5-6 Voyager class figures together.

[Almighty Unicron]

Well he's definitely the price of like six voyager figures, from the rumors and SKUs.