All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

[Gomess]

Do you honestly believe that was the reason, though? The movie and season 3 weren't written by the same people. It's more likely that season 3's writers saw the scenes of Galvatron coveting the Matrix (for Unicron) and assumed it was something the bad guys wanted. I know it's not giving them a lot of credit, but that's how American cartoons were written in the 80s.

I know they're not "binding themselves", but the fact remains they're sticking closer to the established rules of the cartoon than anything else, least of all their own new rules. I know they've done *some* new stuff, but Optimus' eyes are still blue, aren't they...? You know what I mean. I haven't seen how IDW depict the Matrix, but I'd put money on it being an orange sphere with white handles containing a blue jewel, rather than a green cube or an intangible computer program.

...I know we should just wait and see what IDW do with the Matrix before this discussion can go anywhere, but that'd be a fool's errand. Not least of all because they can change their mind in an instant. Are they into retcons? I don't think they've been doing TF long enough to have pulled any significant ones actually, but I'm no expert.

[Dominic]

IDW is not relying on the old cartoons for much of anything really. Even the character models are modern, (or simply generalized from earlier models). The Matrix looks like the cartoon Matrix. But, that is a minor detail in this case.

IDW has had more than a few retcons.

You are probably right about the original cartoons though. All things considered, it is amazing how much the cartoon and franchise resonated with people. (I have actually been thinking about how bad the movie is of late.)

[Sparky Prime]

The White House and Pentagon are high profile buildings with symbolic value as well.

Perhaps, but that's beside the point, being that those buildings are of governmental leadership importance.

Look how much blood and treasure are squandered over Jerusalem. The city's main value is....what exactly? Oh yes, mythology and symbolism.

Context is everything, and you're out of it in this case. We weren't talking about the Matrix in this situation Dom, rather the strategy Megatron was taking by attacking New York symbolically rather than a more practical location first.

IDW is not binding itself to the old comics and cartoon. They can define the Matrix as they please. Poking the Autobots in the eye with s sharp stick would be reason in and of itself to grab the Matrix.

You're forgetting that IDW has established that the Matrix is fabled to be an object of ultimate power. You don't think Megatron would be more interested in taking the Matrix for said ultimate power?

[Dominic]

Megatron was trying to break the humans and boost the moral of his troops.

If the Matrix is believed, but not confirmed, to be an object of great power, Megatron would likely not have any definite plans for it as he would not be sure it would work. But, it would stull have its symbolic value.

[Sparky Prime]

Megatron was trying to break the humans and boost the moral of his troops.

The Decepticons didn't need a moral boost. They'd just won against the Autobots. They were at the peak of moral. And again, attacking just one city wouldn't break the humans. Going after the government capitals first on the other hand...

If the Matrix is believed, but not confirmed, to be an object of great power, Megatron would likely not have any definite plans for it as he would not be sure it would work. But, it would stull have its symbolic value.

It's only worth a symbolic value if others actually knows he has it, but again, it was kept secret on both fronts. It's still far more likely Megatron took it for it's power, confirmed or not.

[138 Scourge]

Do you honestly believe that was the reason, though? The movie and season 3 weren't written by the same people. It's more likely that season 3's writers saw the scenes of Galvatron coveting the Matrix (for Unicron) and assumed it was something the bad guys wanted. I know it's not giving them a lot of credit, but that's how American cartoons were written in the 80s.

I dunno, Scourge got kind of upgraded in "The Burden Hardest to Bear". If you've got a pretty loose definition of "upgrade". But he seemed to think that having the Matrix would give him crazy amounts of power, anyway.

[andersonh1]

Megatron was trying to break the humans and boost the moral of his troops.

The Decepticons didn't need a moral boost. They'd just won against the Autobots. They were at the peak of moral. And again, attacking just one city wouldn't break the humans. Going after the government capitals first on the other hand...

I think you both mean "morale".

Considering how quickly the Deceptions trash the human military, I think they did manage to break the humans morale pretty well. At least when it came to the troops on the front lines.

It's only worth a symbolic value if others actually knows he has it, but again, it was kept secret on both fronts. It's still far more likely Megatron took it for it's power, confirmed or not.

If nothing else, he took it to give the Autobot morale a major hit. Remember that Kup and Jazz won't talk about it around the others, and don't want the news of the theft to become public knowledge. But I agree with you, and I doubt that's the only thing he had in mind. But I can't remember if he actually said anything about his reasons or not.

[Onslaught Six]

Do you honestly believe that was the reason, though? The movie and season 3 weren't written by the same people. It's more likely that season 3's writers saw the scenes of Galvatron coveting the Matrix (for Unicron) and assumed it was something the bad guys wanted. I know it's not giving them a lot of credit, but that's how American cartoons were written in the 80s.

Flint Dille wrote most of the TFTM script, actually, and he was the story editor for most (all?) of the show's run. And the way he talks about it, it *seems* like he had some kind of mandates in mind, and he actually did his job as an editor and changed things in scripts when they didn't work.

I know they're not "binding themselves", but the fact remains they're sticking closer to the established rules of the cartoon than anything else, least of all their own new rules. I know they've done *some* new stuff, but Optimus' eyes are still blue, aren't they...? You know what I mean. I haven't seen how IDW depict the Matrix, but I'd put money on it being an orange sphere with white handles containing a blue jewel, rather than a green cube or an intangible computer program.

...I know we should just wait and see what IDW do with the Matrix before this discussion can go anywhere, but that'd be a fool's errand. Not least of all because they can change their mind in an instant. Are they into retcons? I don't think they've been doing TF long enough to have pulled any significant ones actually, but I'm no expert.

Here's the thing: The Matrix, as it appears in IDW, is basically insignificant until AHM. Nobody ever really mentions it. I mean, Prime gets it when he Becomes Prime (all told in brief flashback) and it's clearly a thing for the leadery guy to have. And then when Megs or anybody else talks about it, they're just kind of like "It's the Matrix! That thing that we all know is important already!" Like, in the example I've been using before--you don't need to explain who Superman is because 'everybody already knows who Superman is.' In effect, this is why All-Star Superman opens the way it does. It's just a few panels and brief words. Planet blowing up! Baby in spaceship! Grows up to wear underwear outside his pants! And it's this same basis that, I personally think, McCarthy is running with--being that the first page of AHM directly pulls from that same Superman page. It assumes you know the backstory already--you get it. Alien robots from Cybertron. Autobots good. Decepticons bad. Matrix important.

I think a major problem is, yes, with Shane McCarthy. AHM is not a perfect series in IDW's continuity. It doesn't agree with some things. And you know what? I don't care about that. I care that it's a good TF book on its own.

[Gomess]

Flint Dille wrote most of the TFTM script, actually, and he was the story editor for most (all?) of the show's run.

Much as I like his writing, he did a pretty crappy job, then. =/ And I'd be willing to bet that even in 1987, he would've been hard pushed to explain Galvatron's 'character development' from "Unicron, I've got your weakness! I don't know why this meaningless token of leadership is your weakness, but I'll gladly threaten you with it!" to "WHAT Decepticon Matrix?! All troops, converge on Rodimus' chestular region!!"

I dunno, Scourge got kind of upgraded in "The Burden Hardest to Bear". If you've got a pretty loose definition of "upgrade". But he seemed to think that having the Matrix would give him crazy amounts of power, anyway.

Sure, and that's my problem. In season 3, the Decepticons suddenly started seeing the Matrix as something that could make them stronger, when the only one who'd even have an inkling of that was Galvatron (and even that's debatable, because we have no idea of knowing if he heard "ARISE RODIMUS PRIME"; he's clearly not intimidated by Hot Rod's new trailer, because the first thing he does is shoot him), and the first time Galvatron speaks after seeing Rodimus, his sentences basically consist of "Blahahahabloohawaahhhh crush destroy rout rend tear distort!"

Hey, maybe it's a natural progression of his madness, distorting his vague memories of the Matrix into a holy object, instead of just Unicron's weakness. I just think that was so far from the authors' intent that I can't reasonably interpret it that way. The Matrix will do whatever the authors want it to at any given moment, being as it's a MacGuffin. IDW will probably use it the same way, though I do believe McCarthy's got a few more boxes in the attic than the average TF writer.

[Dominic]

And the way he talks about it, it *seems* like he had some kind of mandates in mind, and he actually did his job as an editor and changed things in scripts when they didn't work.

In Dille's defense, the editors on the G1 cartoon had to clean up a whole lot of mistakes. At BC89, Bryce Malek said that for every mistake we saw as viewers, the editors caught 10. Granted, he was editing the images. But, Dille likely had the same problems.

I think you both mean "morale".

My fault on that one.

Much as I like his writing, he did a pretty crappy job, then. =/ And I'd be willing to bet that even in 1987, he would've been hard pushed to explain Galvatron's 'character development' from "Unicron, I've got your weakness! I don't know why this meaningless token of leadership is your weakness, but I'll gladly threaten you with it!" to "WHAT Decepticon Matrix?! All troops, converge on Rodimus' chestular region!!"

Galvatron was crazy in the cartoon, owing to the damage he took after the movie. That explains most of the changes.


Dom