Transformers - ongoing series

[Sparky Prime]

Except, it was the same. In context, much of issue 11 of CoIE was explication to the effect of "none of that old stuff happened, get over it", and (more importantly) out of context, DC made a point of tossing the old stories. Time got re-written, and the old stuff got chucked.

We are talking about the same story right? Crisis on Infinite Earths? Because I don't know where you're getting that from. Granted the merging of the multiverse changed the history for the surviving post-Crisis DC universe, but that isn't the same thing as saying "none of that old stuff happened", at all. As I've already pointed out, CoIE didn't restart the universe, so some of the history pre-Crisis had to carry over. Not to mention things like Earth 2 Superman, Superboy Prime, Alex Luthor surviving 'outside time' rather than being 'folded' into the new universe, Psycho Pirate remembering events, Wally taking over for Barry who died during Crisis..... Through all of that fall out, we're shown those events still happened and still exist on some level despite the changes made.

[BWprowl]

Yeah pretty much all sports with football being the worst. It's largely due to my formative years where I was stuck in back woods literally middle of nowhere North Dakota where if you didn't completely immerse yourself in sports you routinely getting beaten, berated abused and generally treated like a pariah. And while the abuse itself stopped after high school, I have yet to really meet anyone that has changed my perception of sports. So yeah, pretty much all sports. But the football jocks were always the worst.

Hey, hate the players, not the game. Fact is, I don't personally know any of the players I watch on a football field, and could care less about who they are. To me, they're just the performers in the grand field-battle of a sport I really enjoy watching and following. To hate an entire medium based on some jocks being mean in high school is just irrational, in my opinion. It'd be like if I refused to eat food because a chef kicked my ass, or if I hated reading because a girl who wrote fanfiction broke up with me. I mean, these guys who screwed with you in high school probably wore shirts, right? It's not like you hate shirts now. 'Sports' is just such a broad range of activities and entertainment options that to hate the whole collective because of *other* people who're fans of it, well...you know how you're always telling Dom to get over annoying Beast Wars fans?

Gargoyles was one of the best shows ever so I'm gonna have to check out W.I.T.C.H. I have followed some writer/creators in tv, Whedon also being a good example with Firefly and Buffy. Prowl, have you read the Gargoyles comic? It was writen by Weissman as well and the current Buffy comic is "produced" by Whedon and often written by the same writers from the series.

I like to affectionately call it 'Girlgoyles' . I'ma warn you, WITCH starts out a bit rough and doesn't find its feet quickly (the voice acting is particularly dodgy at the beginning and to this day I'm not certain if it got better over time or if I just got used to it). But stick with it, and you'll see it's got a really impressive over-arching plot, with great use of a changing status quo (to a degree that was very surprising to me. I'd keep expecting things to reset back to the previous status quo, but they wouldn't, and the cast and story would just march on). About halfway through the first season it's become solid and entertaining, and then the second season, which is where Weisman was actually running the show, starts strong and just kicks more ass as it goes along. All the characters ended up growing on me over time too, with Irma in particular really grating on me in the early episodes only to eventually become my favorite. Plus the theme song is rad as hell.

Although I guess it's a little different with tv because in the case of tv, each series is a story unto itself so following a particular writer from one series to the next wouldn't necessarily be so disjoint because you're essentially following into different continuities anyway. Same with movies. Sort of.

When you think about it, pretty much every medium EXCEPT for franchise comic books is like this. Those are weird in that they're really the only things that operate that way, where all the work of these hundreds of different authors is somehow supposed to gel and connect up and across into one megastory that would be insane by any other standard. It's like...can you imagine if all of, say, Warner Brothers' movies were required to be about the same twenty or so characters and all had to be in continuity with each other, just because they were made by the same company? That sounds insane, and its logic like that that results in the situations that provoke O6's Standard Comic Book Response. I mean yeah, there are cases where things are connected, like spin-offs of TV shows, or Kevin Smith's six-film New Jersey 'Trilogy', but even at that point it's mostly the same people involved with the stories, rather than a bunch of writers forced to write around each other for something as pithy as 'continuity' between superhero magazines. And that's why people focus on the *people* involved in the stories of those other mediums when they look to them, and why that practice even carries over to comic books for a lot of us, because we recognize that it's the guy *creating* the story that dictates the quality of it, not the continuity it's obstinately part of. Even you seem to get it, mentioning that you follow/enjoy Whedon's stuff, and even knowing that Weisman wrote the Gargoyles comic! You, Shockwave, who thought he never paid attention to writers on comics! You're doing it, man! That's the power of enjoying a writer's work!

[Dominic]

Through all of that fall out, we're shown those events still happened and still exist on some level despite the changes made.

The whole point of CoIE was that time was altered, and there was no multiverse. No multiverse=no E2 etc. The streamlining involved tossing old stories out the window.

fanfiction

That is more than enough to make anybody hate the written word.



Dom
-still fuming about the renumbering.

[Sparky Prime]

The whole point of CoIE was that time was altered, and there was no multiverse. No multiverse=no E2 etc. The streamlining involved tossing old stories out the window.

Just because CoIE ended the multiverse, that doesn't mean it never existed. That's like saying because Krypton no longer exists it never existed. Except it did. The remaining multiverse was merged into one universe. Earth 2 may not exist separately in its own universe anymore, but parts of it survived, having been 'folded' into the post-Crisis universe as shown with Powergirl, as well as some elements that were not, such as the Earth 2 Superman that remained separate. They may have streamlined the DC universe, but that doesn't mean they tossed the old stories out the window.

[Shockwave]

Yeah pretty much all sports with football being the worst. It's largely due to my formative years where I was stuck in back woods literally middle of nowhere North Dakota where if you didn't completely immerse yourself in sports you routinely getting beaten, berated abused and generally treated like a pariah. And while the abuse itself stopped after high school, I have yet to really meet anyone that has changed my perception of sports. So yeah, pretty much all sports. But the football jocks were always the worst.

Hey, hate the players, not the game. Fact is, I don't personally know any of the players I watch on a football field, and could care less about who they are. To me, they're just the performers in the grand field-battle of a sport I really enjoy watching and following. To hate an entire medium based on some jocks being mean in high school is just irrational, in my opinion. It'd be like if I refused to eat food because a chef kicked my ass, or if I hated reading because a girl who wrote fanfiction broke up with me. I mean, these guys who screwed with you in high school probably wore shirts, right? It's not like you hate shirts now. 'Sports' is just such a broad range of activities and entertainment options that to hate the whole collective because of *other* people who're fans of it, well...you know how you're always telling Dom to get over annoying Beast Wars fans?

Conceptually, I have nothing against the sports themselves. Everyone likes to play games and there's nothing wrong with that. My aversion comes from actually both the players and the fandoms of sports. When one is routinely abused by people coming from all walks of life, race, religions, genders, what have you one starts to look for the common thread. That common thread has consistently been sports. Either from players or fans. And on an even worse note, I've often found that even meeting people who are fans have always treated me shitty on some level. I think it has to do with the competitive nature/attitude that goes along with most sports. My prejudice has consistently been fueled by the fact that I have never, seriously, ever met anyone who liked sports on any level that didn't wind up being a total dueche. And it's really on an almost incredulously unbelievable scale. Bear in mind that I've lived in England for 3 years. I've also been to Ireland and Canada and travelled through half the states in the continental US. That's a lot of travelling and a lot of people from a lot of backgrounds that I've met. You would think at least ONE person who likes or was associated with sports out of all of that would turn out to be decent. But nope. Has not happened yet. Now, I understand you said that you enjoy watching football and you've always been cool to me so really so far you're the exception that would be breaking my prejudice. No pressure or anything, I just don't want you thinking I'm automatically lumping you in with everyone who's ever abused me just because you watched football sometimes. It's also a little bit different than the thing I keep telling Dom about BW fans. And actually, I think this probably *why* I have that attitude in the first place. It's not like I was a sports fan who had the experience ruined for me by other fans, I was never a fan to begin with. And when every single person I've encountered who was a fan acted like that, I couldn't help developing the stereotype and it just became this thing that I wanted to have no association with. And what would usually happen is I would get abused not only for not liking sports, but subsequently for liking whatever I did like (usually Star Trek was the target of that). So what wound up happening is that I continued to like Star Trek for my own reasons and if some asshole jock somewhere who I don't like and want to have no association with doesn't like it, then fuck him and the horse he rode in on. At the end of the day, I have to be my own person and wasn't going to give the jocks the power to take away who I am. And that's why I keep telling Dom not to give the BW fans that power over him. Plain and simply, they don't deserve it.

Even you seem to get it, mentioning that you follow/enjoy Whedon's stuff, and even knowing that Weisman wrote the Gargoyles comic! You, Shockwave, who thought he never paid attention to writers on comics! You're doing it, man! That's the power of enjoying a writer's work!

You're right, I'm living the dream! That's true, there have been a few exceptions, although I found out about Weisman through following the franchise. Now I just gotta figure out how to track down W.I.T.C.H. in some sort of watchable format.

[138 Scourge]

You would think at least ONE person who likes or was associated with sports out of all of that would turn out to be decent. But nope. Has not happened yet. Now, I understand you said that you enjoy watching football and you've always been cool to me so really so far you're the exception that would be breaking my prejudice.

I can think of two others, actually. Dom's on record as being a big wrestling fan. And I'm not, like, nuts about sports statistics or anything, but I really enjoy watching baseball and college-level basketball. Especially the basketball, as my local college team, University of Kansas, is traditionally really good. The local baseball team...well, they were awesome in the eighties, and I've always lived in KC, so I'm not gonna give up on the Royals anytime soon. Exercise in masochism, maybe, but there it is.

[Shockwave]

You would think at least ONE person who likes or was associated with sports out of all of that would turn out to be decent. But nope. Has not happened yet. Now, I understand you said that you enjoy watching football and you've always been cool to me so really so far you're the exception that would be breaking my prejudice.

I can think of two others, actually. Dom's on record as being a big wrestling fan. And I'm not, like, nuts about sports statistics or anything, but I really enjoy watching baseball and college-level basketball. Especially the basketball, as my local college team, University of Kansas, is traditionally really good. The local baseball team...well, they were awesome in the eighties, and I've always lived in KC, so I'm not gonna give up on the Royals anytime soon. Exercise in masochism, maybe, but there it is.

Fair enough. And now that I really think about it, I really should amend that statement anyway since one of my cousins used to be a training coach for the Oakland A's and he's a pretty decent guy. When my parents and I were stuck in North Dakota for 8 years, we went to a Twins game in MN one weekend when they were playing against the A's. We met up with my cousin and he got us tickets to the next day's game. This was back when Ricky Henderson and Mark McGuire were on the A's and Kirby Pucket was still playing for the Twins. They were actually really good games. I got to see both teams win one. And they were both my favorite teams so it was an awesome weekend all around. Also, funny story about the Royals, my parents and I were on a trip from ND to Florida to see some friends from England and go to Disney World. On the way we passed through Kansas City and got stuck in traffic due to a Royals game. Ok, I dunno how funny that was, but it's the only Royals story I got. Also, I used to play little league when I was a kid. Played it for one season and then didn't go back because... well, the rest of the team were jerks. So I've come full circle I guess.

But I've learned something today: You can't make generalizations because there's an exception to every rule. And no matter what they take from me, they can't take away my dignity. Because the greatest love of all is learning to love yourself. Long time. Take care of yourselves, and each other.

Shockwave
-Now to move this discussion to a sports thread and rerail this one.

[BWprowl]

Dear Princess Celestia, I've learned something today: You can't make generalizations because there's an exception to every rule. And no matter what they take from me, they can't take away my dignity. Because the greatest love of all is learning to love yourself. Long time. Take care of yourselves, and each other.

Fix'd.

You're right, I'm living the dream! That's true, there have been a few exceptions, although I found out about Weisman through following the franchise. Now I just gotta figure out how to track down W.I.T.C.H. in some sort of watchable format.

Man, looking around, I have no idea how I tracked down the seasons I downloaded, considering this series has a title that makes it unpossible to search for. None of my quick hits for torrents turned up anything, sheesh. Maybe I'll get ahold of some burnable DVDs and mail 'em to you or something.

[Onslaught Six]

I do not believe that JP finished HS. And, I have no idea what became of him after he left school. But, I do know that for in 1993, a jock and nerd worked together. And, it was the jock who taught the nerd a lesson about being rational and open-minded.

Cool story, bro. Sincerely.

or Kevin Smith's six-film New Jersey 'Trilogy'

Huh, it is six films. Plus the animated series. Which brings me to my next point...

Conceptually, I have nothing against the sports themselves. Everyone likes to play games and there's nothing wrong with that. My aversion comes from actually both the players and the fandoms of sports. When one is routinely abused by people coming from all walks of life, race, religions, genders, what have you one starts to look for the common thread. That common thread has consistently been sports. Either from players or fans. And on an even worse note, I've often found that even meeting people who are fans have always treated me shitty on some level. I think it has to do with the competitive nature/attitude that goes along with most sports. My prejudice has consistently been fueled by the fact that I have never, seriously, ever met anyone who liked sports on any level that didn't wind up being a total dueche. And it's really on an almost incredulously unbelievable scale. Bear in mind that I've lived in England for 3 years. I've also been to Ireland and Canada and travelled through half the states in the continental US. That's a lot of travelling and a lot of people from a lot of backgrounds that I've met. You would think at least ONE person who likes or was associated with sports out of all of that would turn out to be decent. But nope. Has not happened yet. Now, I understand you said that you enjoy watching football and you've always been cool to me so really so far you're the exception that would be breaking my prejudice. No pressure or anything, I just don't want you thinking I'm automatically lumping you in with everyone who's ever abused me just because you watched football sometimes. It's also a little bit different than the thing I keep telling Dom about BW fans. And actually, I think this probably *why* I have that attitude in the first place. It's not like I was a sports fan who had the experience ruined for me by other fans, I was never a fan to begin with. And when every single person I've encountered who was a fan acted like that, I couldn't help developing the stereotype and it just became this thing that I wanted to have no association with. And what would usually happen is I would get abused not only for not liking sports, but subsequently for liking whatever I did like (usually Star Trek was the target of that). So what wound up happening is that I continued to like Star Trek for my own reasons and if some asshole jock somewhere who I don't like and want to have no association with doesn't like it, then fuck him and the horse he rode in on. At the end of the day, I have to be my own person and wasn't going to give the jocks the power to take away who I am. And that's why I keep telling Dom not to give the BW fans that power over him. Plain and simply, they don't deserve it.

And yet you let those jocks ruin sports for you.

Kevin Smith (and actually a lot of other 90s nerd stuff I can't remember right now) somehow instilled in me a great sense that hockey was a cool nerd thing to like. Always intended to get into it someday, but never did. The closest I ever did was pro wrestling (not unlike Dom). I'm still the biggest name at a forum dedicated to modding a ten year old wrestling game.

Man, looking around, I have no idea how I tracked down the seasons I downloaded, considering this series has a title that makes it unpossible to search for. None of my quick hits for torrents turned up anything, sheesh. Maybe I'll get ahold of some burnable DVDs and mail 'em to you or something.

Ooh, let me send you the fucking random-ass bunch of DVD-Rs that Dom used as packing material for the Botcon toys last year.

[Dominic]

Cool story, bro. Sincerely

I honestly do consider it to be one of the more important formative experiences of my teenage years.

That's a lot of travelling and a lot of people from a lot of backgrounds that I've met. You would think at least ONE person who likes or was associated with sports out of all of that would turn out to be decent. But nope. Has not happened yet. Now, I understand you said that you enjoy watching football and you've always been cool to me so really so far you're the exception that would be breaking my prejudice. No pressure or anything, I

I can see what you are saying. And, fans are probably more likely to be snitty because they have more need to feel secure.

At the end of the day, I have to be my own person and wasn't going to give the jocks the power to take away who I am. And that's why I keep telling Dom not to give the BW fans that power over him. Plain and simply, they don't deserve it.

I also find it easier to let them have their filthy little sandbox. There has been enough bad official content of late to put me off BW.

Dear Princess Celestia, I've learned something today: You can't make generalizations because there's an exception to every rule. And no matter what they take from me, they can't take away my dignity. Because the greatest love of all is learning to love yourself. Long time. Take care of yourselves, and each other.

Oh, MLP, there is so much for us to learn.

And yet you let those jocks ruin sports for you.

Truth.


Dom
-is ashamed for not throwing that at Shockewave.