More than Meets the Eye (IDW ongoing comic)

[Sparky Prime]

I have to admit that a lot of the backstory in this book bores me to death. All the stuff about the functionalist government and who has what philosophy about who can change into what and all the forged vs. constructed cold or whatever... it's all less than compelling to me. That's probably yet another reason I have a hard time caring about some of the plotlines in this series.

I'm very much the opposite, the backstory has been one of the most interesting parts of this book to me. So much of Transformers fiction has only focused on the war between Autobots and Decepticons, I like seeing a bit of what a pre-war Cybertron was like and exploring Cybertronian society. Not to mention, it really fleshes out why the Decepticon cause began in the first place. I've always found a series more enjoyable with sympathetic villains rather than villains who are bad just for the sake of being evil. I also really like the forged vs constructed cold concept. I think it makes more sense than the Allspark/Well of Allsparks concept we've seen elsewhere, and I like the idea of fleshing out the origins of the Transformers.

And while I'm on the subject, the idea that characters like Whirl and Shockwave have similar one-eyed faces because they were subjected to "empurata", some mutilation/punishment, has always seemed like bad connect the dots fanfiction to me. "Hey those characters have the same type of face. Why is that? I think we need a story to explain it!" Well, no we don't, not really. And then there's shadowplay, stripping away emotions, which led to that abysmally bad ending to Dark Cybertron where Shockwave regressed or was in contact with his old self and decided that he was horrified by what he had become. Yeah, he wasn't a bad person because he made bad choices, but because of a millenia old procedure that stripped him of his conscience. Right...

Why not explain it? I mean, sure they're robots that don't really need a face, but it kind of begs the question why the majority of the Transformers have humanoid faces where as only a couple of guys have just have an eyeball. I like the attention to those kinds of details, I feel it really expands and explores the Cybertronian culture. But I would agree with you about the shadowplay. I prefer the idea that Shockwave likes to be cold and logical rather than having been forced to be that way.

Perhaps in trying to kill Megatron (if indeed that's what he's doing), Brainstorm instead mutates his spark and turns him into a .1% bot. I hope it's not yet another case of a major Decepticon becoming a tyrant because of some outside influence (like Shockwave) rather than because he made a series of choices that led him down a darker and darker road, but it wouldn't surprise me if we do see Megatron influenced by Brainstorm's actions in the past.

Well Brainstorm should still have that .1% spark that he harvested from Luna-1. I was kinda hoping that might be how they'd introduce Quickswitch, given all the talk about Prowl wanting an Autobot on par with a phase sixer, but at this point it's looking like they'll find another use for that spark...

[andersonh1]

I'm very much the opposite, the backstory has been one of the most interesting parts of this book to me.

I get that, and I don't fault anyone for enjoying the backstory. It's just never done much for me. It feels, to use an analogy I've brought up before, like Star Trek storytelling. Some alien society with problems stands in for contemporary real-life society. Roberts wants to tell stories about prejudice and discrimination, so he uses the different Transformer construction methods to do it. It's certainly a valid way to explore the Transformers concept when it comes to their society, but it just never really struck me as all that interesting. Maybe it just feels too familiar.

Why not explain it? I mean, sure they're robots that don't really need a face, but it kind of begs the question why the majority of the Transformers have humanoid faces where as only a couple of guys have just have an eyeball. I like the attention to those kinds of details, I feel it really expands and explores the Cybertronian culture.

There are many Transformers that don't have humanoid faces, and that's always been the case. Less so for the animation and comics than the toys themselves, of course. Most of the original mini-bots had no face. Roadbuster didn't. Omega Supreme didn't. Grimlock didn't. I guess it's just a case of Roberts wanting to explain the Shockwave-type cyclops look, which is fairly rare, but to me, it's just another variation of the non-humanoid Transformer face and I think we need an explanation for why that particular type of face is considered a punishment when one like Grimlock's or Tailgate's with the visor as the only real facial feature isn't considered abnormal.

[Sparky Prime]

I get that, and I don't fault anyone for enjoying the backstory. It's just never done much for me. It feels, to use an analogy I've brought up before, like Star Trek storytelling. Some alien society with problems stands in for contemporary real-life society. Roberts wants to tell stories about prejudice and discrimination, so he uses the different Transformer construction methods to do it. It's certainly a valid way to explore the Transformers concept when it comes to their society, but it just never really struck me as all that interesting. Maybe it just feels too familiar.

To each their own, but I don't feel it's just a contemporary for real-life society. Granted, that's a part of it, but we know so little of a Cybertronian culture outside their war. I really feel Roberts is trying to world-build the Transformers beyond the transforming war machines they've always been depicted as, and flesh them out more than they ever have been before.

There are many Transformers that don't have humanoid faces, and that's always been the case. Less so for the animation and comics than the toys themselves, of course. Most of the original mini-bots had no face. Roadbuster didn't. Omega Supreme didn't. Grimlock didn't. I guess it's just a case of Roberts wanting to explain the Shockwave-type cyclops look, which is fairly rare, but to me, it's just another variation of the non-humanoid Transformer face and I think we need an explanation for why that particular type of face is considered a punishment when one like Grimlock's or Tailgate's with the visor as the only real facial feature isn't considered abnormal.

I'd still say those are humanoid looking given their overall helmet-like design. Much more-so than just an eyeball is at any rate. Besides, several of those have been shown to just be face masks in other media and toys. Omega Supreme has been depicted as having a humanoid face under that mask in the cartoons and comics. Bumblebee's cartoon face is more famous than the 'battle mask' the original mini-bot toy had. Even Optimus has been shown to have a mouth under his mask. The cyclops heads though, there's what, only 2 G1 characters that had that? That's not just fairly rare or simply a variation, it's a unique characteristic to those characters.

[andersonh1]

I'd still say those are humanoid looking given their overall helmet-like design. Much more-so than just an eyeball is at any rate. Besides, several of those have been shown to just be face masks in other media and toys. Omega Supreme has been depicted as having a humanoid face under that mask in the cartoons and comics. Bumblebee's cartoon face is more famous than the 'battle mask' the original mini-bot toy had. Even Optimus has been shown to have a mouth under his mask. The cyclops heads though, there's what, only 2 G1 characters that had that? That's not just fairly rare or simply a variation, it's a unique characteristic to those characters.

The depiction of faces underneath the masks and inside Omega Supreme's helmet are often nothing more than attempts to merge the familiar Sunbow look with the toy look. I'm fairly sure the original Microchange or Diaclone or whatever weren't meant to be masks over humanoid faces. Though granted they weren't meant to be sentient until they were incorporated into the Transformers line either, but still...

And then there are the many mini-cons with non-humanoid faces, or the Vehicons (Tankorr is a cyclops, just with the single optic hidden behind a visor). I tend to view all of these as just variations on Transformers body types. Sometimes Transformers have limbs and faces that are more human, and sometimes they're a long way away from human. Shockwave and Whirl aren't really all that unique in that regard.

[Sparky Prime]

The depiction of faces underneath the masks and inside Omega Supreme's helmet are often nothing more than attempts to merge the familiar Sunbow look with the toy look. I'm fairly sure the original Microchange or Diaclone or whatever weren't meant to be masks over humanoid faces. Though granted they weren't meant to be sentient until they were incorporated into the Transformers line either, but still...

What does the original Microchange or Diaclone figures matter? We're not talking about whether or not those toys were originally meant to have humanoid faces, we're talking about what the Transformers characters themselves have. Omega Supreme has always been depicted as having a face behind the visor, even if the original toy doesn't indicate that.

And then there are the many mini-cons with non-humanoid faces, or the Vehicons (Tankorr is a cyclops, just with the single optic hidden behind a visor). I tend to view all of these as just variations on Transformers body types. Sometimes Transformers have limbs and faces that are more human, and sometimes they're a long way away from human. Shockwave and Whirl aren't really all that unique in that regard.

I did specify I was only talking about the 2 G1 characters that had the cyclops face, did I not? Besides, I've never really thought of Tankor as only having one optic given that he does have the visor. The light that passes back and forth I've always seen more as an indicator of a passive scan mode. And sure, there are other features of Transformers that aren't humanoid, but the cyclops eye I'd still say is a distinctive feature that very few characters have, making them pretty unique.

[andersonh1]

What does the original Microchange or Diaclone figures matter? We're not talking about whether or not those toys were originally meant to have humanoid faces, we're talking about what the Transformers characters themselves have. Omega Supreme has always been depicted as having a face behind the visor, even if the original toy doesn't indicate that.

It's not consistent for any of these characters. And the toys matter because many originally had no humanoid faces, then the cartoon and some comics depicted them with faces, and later fiction tried to reconcile the two with "battle masks", whatever they're meant to be. This problem only exist because the Sunbow animators didn't stick with toy-accurate models, not because the vast majority of Transformers have two eyes, a nose and a mouth.

The fact is this: from day one, large numbers of Transformers have not had humanoid faces. There is nothing unusual about a Transformer that doesn't look human, and it certainly doesn't merit a special storyline just to explain why Shockwave and Whirl look similar.

did specify I was only talking about the 2 G1 characters that had the cyclops face, did I not?

But we're not getting just G1 characters in IDW comics. So we have to look beyond just Shockwave and Whirl. And even if we do stick with just G1, it's very arbitrary to pick just the "cyclops" and single them out as different when there are so many other G1 characters without a normal face.

[Shockwave]

And if we're getting into toys, Ironhide and Ratchet never actually had faces. They were actually battle suits in the original diaclone line, not even meant to have any sort of human look.

[Sparky Prime]

It's not consistent for any of these characters. And the toys matter because many originally had no humanoid faces, then the cartoon and some comics depicted them with faces, and later fiction tried to reconcile the two with "battle masks", whatever they're meant to be. This problem only exist because the Sunbow animators didn't stick with toy-accurate models, not because the vast majority of Transformers have two eyes, a nose and a mouth.

The fact is this: from day one, large numbers of Transformers have not had humanoid faces. There is nothing unusual about a Transformer that doesn't look human, and it certainly doesn't merit a special storyline just to explain why Shockwave and Whirl look similar.

It's the cartoon that gets the most recognition here, not the original toys. People remember the faces the Sunbow animators and Marvel comics gave the characters, and that's what's stuck with the characters after all these years, seeing as that's what the new versions of the characters are based on rather than the look of the original figures. Heck, as Shockwave points out, Ratchet and Ironhide were pretty much completely redesigned for the cartoon compared to their original toy counterparts, yet they are always depicted like pretty much any other humanoid Transformer.

And my point remains, only two of the G1 characters had the cyclops eye face. It's an extremely unique appearance when compared to the other characters as the vast majority have humanoid faces, or at the very least, a helmet-like design that retains an overall general humainoid look.

But we're not getting just G1 characters in IDW comics. So we have to look beyond just Shockwave and Whirl. And even if we do stick with just G1, it's very arbitrary to pick just the "cyclops" and single them out as different when there are so many other G1 characters without a normal face.

That's a recent happening that they've started to use characters and designs from other parts of the franchise though. These books started off strictly only using G1 characters. And even so, there are still few characters outside of G1 that have a giant optic for a face. Actually none comes to mind, outside a few mini-cons and movie figures. It begs to question. I don't see it as arbitrary when it is such a unique appearance compared to the overall look of all the vast majority of the other characters.

[Shockwave]

I get what Anderson is saying. I never really felt like they needed to be connected in any way and to do so does feel a bit "fanficky". I mean, I don't see why that aesthetic needed any explanaition beyond "Because Transformers". It makes me wonder if they're now going to try to explain why all the characters with a mouthplate have the mouthplate vs just a regular mouth. Or why everyone with a single visor has that or... I mean if we're going to start drawing connections based on appearance, where is it going to end? And why start in the first place?

[andersonh1]

I get what Anderson is saying. I never really felt like they needed to be connected in any way and to do so does feel a bit "fanficky". I mean, I don't see why that aesthetic needed any explanaition beyond "Because Transformers". It makes me wonder if they're now going to try to explain why all the characters with a mouthplate have the mouthplate vs just a regular mouth. Or why everyone with a single visor has that or... I mean if we're going to start drawing connections based on appearance, where is it going to end? And why start in the first place?

Exactly. And it's kind of an... odd... punishment to begin with, isn't it? "We're going to take your face and make you a cyclops! That'll teach you!"

Maybe that's what Optimus Prime had in mind in Revenge of the Fallen. "Give me your face!"