TF Views

Shockwave wrote:Ok, for some reason (maybe I'm a glutton for punishment), I'm going to try this again.

The titular concept should be prominent and/or frequently shown/used in the media created for said property.

See that? That right there ^? That's it. That is all I was saying and it doesn't cover anything beyond that. At no point is that meant to imply that there can't be more to the characters or a franchise than the title concept, so stating such is irrelevant to that point. Why? First off, because I agree with that. You can't argue against someone who agrees with you on something. That's just not how that works. And secondly, because I'm not addressing the impact of other aspects or concepts of a property.

Yes I can because that’s not what my point is focused on. See that statement up at the top? That’s the only point I’m interested in. Not the other concepts. Yes, there are other concepts, and they are part of the franchise, but I’m only interested in discussing whether or not transformation should be prominent in the fiction. It’s literally a yes or no question. Other concepts don’t factor into it.

As I said, I got and understood the point you were making. I don't fully agree with you on it, which again is why I was explaining my side of it. Although that doesn't explain why you kept thinking I was saying transformation wasn't necessary. At any rate, it isn't literally a yes or no question nor is it all about you and your one point. This is a discussion after all which involves several different people with several different points. You personally may not care about other factors of the book, but I do and is entirely relevant to the discussion regardless of if you're interested or addressing those points or not, and it is what other people in this discussion have addressed.

Except that nobody here was saying that there isn't more to the characters or the franchise.

Shockwave wrote:Except that nobody here was saying that there isn't more to the characters or the franchise.

Why do I have to keep explaining this? I never said that anyone did. Although several people have said, as I have already pointed out using their own words, that they feel it's "all about" the transforming. While I feel that transformation doesn't need to be the emphasis because there is so much more to the characters than that.

Sparky Prime wrote:I never said that anyone did.

Then why do you keep bringing it up?

Sparky Prime wrote:Although several people have said, as I have already pointed out using their own words, that they feel it's "all about" the transforming.

And at least one of them has wheighed in saying that you misinterpreted that statement. So far you're batting a zero.

Shockwave wrote:Then why do you keep bringing it up?

I have to keep re-explaining my point because you keep misreading my posts.

And at least one of them has wheighed in saying that you misinterpreted that statement. So far you're batting a zero.

Again, I've already explained I did not interpret it the way you thought I did... You know what, if I'm going to just repeat myself I might as well quote what I've already said.

Sparky Prime wrote:I quoted their complete sentences, where they literally did say that transforming is what they're all about. And yes, I'm sure they didn't mean they should be transforming 100% of the time either. But then that's not at all what I was arguing, was it? Rather, as I keep saying, there are plenty of other factors that people enjoy about this book and that transformation need not be the main gimmick as they, and yourself, suggest. Yet for some reason you keep misinterpreting that for the extreme, just like you are once again with this.

Sparky Prime wrote:

And at least one of them has wheighed in saying that you misinterpreted that statement. So far you're batting a zero.

Again, I've already explained I did not interpret it the way you thought I did...

Really? Because both me and Anderson got out of that...

Sparky Prime wrote:where they literally did say that transforming is what they're all about.

This. Where you literally just said this is how you interpreted it.

Sparky Prime wrote:And yes, I'm sure they didn't mean they should be transforming 100% of the time either.

That's not what you just said above.

Sparky Prime wrote:But then that's not at all what I was arguing, was it?

Between the two contradictory statements above I don't really know what they hell you're arguing. Frankly I'm starting to wonder if you even know.

Sparky Prime wrote:Rather, as I keep saying, there are plenty of other factors that people enjoy about this book

Yeah, you do keep saying that. And again, literally no one here is disagreeing with you. So quit presenting it as some sort of argument when literally no one is arguing against this.

Sparky Prime wrote:and that transformation need not be the main gimmick

This was all you needed to say. Simple and straight to the point. Sometimes less is more.

Shockwave wrote:Really? Because both me and Anderson got out of that...

Sparky Prime wrote:where they literally did say that transforming is what they're all about.

This. Where you literally just said this is how you interpreted it.

You might want to re-read that comment because that's not what that says at all. All that part of a sentence says is that *they* literally said transforming is what they're "all about", not how I interpreted it. Would you deny that's not the actual words they wrote?
And andersonh1 only agreed that he didn't mean it to be taken literally. Which as I've said, I already figured as much but that wasn't the point I was making.

That's not what you just said above.

Because I was reinterating what words they'd written, not talking about my own interpretation there.

Between the two contradictory statements above I don't really know what they hell you're arguing. Frankly I'm starting to wonder if you even know.

Well they aren't contradictory statements in the first place as I've pointed out. It's starting to seem to me like you're going out of your way to misread or take things out of context just so you can argue it.

Yeah, you do keep saying that. And again, literally no one here is disagreeing with you. So quit presenting it as some sort of argument when literally no one is arguing against this.

Seems to me you're disagreeing with me on just about everything. And you really need to stop quoting just parts of sentences like it's the whole thought because you keep loosing the context of what it is I'm actually saying. That people enjoy other factors isn't what I'm arguing, it's the reasoning *for* my argument which is the *other half* of that sentence.

This was all you needed to say. Simple and straight to the point. Sometimes less is more.

I have said that. Several times in fact. Yet somehow you kept thinking I was saying they didn't need to transform or confusing the first half of that sentence as the argument itself.

Read #37 last night, and I really don't know what Roberts's game is. On the one hand, there's a fair bit of transformation and alt-mode usage in this issue, including catching a glimpse of Riptide's boat mode (!) and seeing Rewind transform into his data stick mode (not quite sure what he's doing with it there? Sidling out of the way? But he does it, neat). However, then we get the same crud from Roberts on the topic of alt-mode usage that we have been. Just a PAGE after I was elated to see Riptide's boat mode, we get Chromedome on a train, complaining that he could get fined for 'neglecting his altmode' and using public transit. We get Nightbeat and Original Character Quark (who looks like a recolor of Animated Perceptor) re-espousing Megatron's anti-transformation values, including the whole "Your altmode shouldn't determine your job" thing, despite how inconsistently that's been applied, including to Megatron himself. So I have no idea. Is Roberts purposefully getting lots of mileage out of the transformations all of a sudden so it'll be more palpable when he achieves his endgame agenda of just getting rid of them? Why is he showing me cool scenes of a transformed aerial chase between Cyclonus and Brainstorm, then trying to make me feel like a horrible person for enjoying it? I just don't know.

BWprowl wrote:Just a PAGE after I was elated to see Riptide's boat mode, we get Chromedome on a train, complaining that he could get fined for 'neglecting his altmode' and using public transit.

The characters are at a point in time at the height of the Functionalism regime, and he's tying to avoid running into his past self...

We get Nightbeat and Original Character Quark (who looks like a recolor of Animated Perceptor) re-espousing Megatron's anti-transformation values, including the whole "Your altmode shouldn't determine your job" thing, despite how inconsistently that's been applied, including to Megatron himself.

Megatron's values aren't anti-transformation, it's anti-functionalism.

Is Roberts purposefully getting lots of mileage out of the transformations all of a sudden so it'll be more palpable when he achieves his endgame agenda of just getting rid of them? Why is he showing me cool scenes of a transformed aerial chase between Cyclonus and Brainstorm, then trying to make me feel like a horrible person for enjoying it? I just don't know.

Maybe it's because your whole idea that Roberts hates transformation isn't accurate?

Sparky Prime wrote:The characters are at a point in time at the height of the Functionalism regime, and he's tying to avoid running into his past self...

No, I understand why he's using public transit there. But when he throws out that bit where he complains about getting fined for not using his altmode, it's basically a direct statement that "People who want to see Transformers transform and use their altmodes are assholes."

Megatron's values aren't anti-transformation, it's anti-functionalism.

Except that being anti-functionalist undermines the entire point of transformations, altmodes, and people (like me) who find them appealing. Look at some of the things Nightbeat and Quark talk about there. "If you are interested in and care about what a Transformer turns into, you're a fascist monster."

Maybe it's because your whole idea that Roberts hates transformation isn't accurate?

The entire comic series for at least the last half of it has been about how stupid and horrible transformation is.