TF Views

Sparky Prime wrote:

Dominic wrote:I never disputed that John's put ideas into "Infinite Crisis". You are the one denying FC's premise.

Because I don't see that the premise is about being meaningless. There is so much in Final Crisis for it not to mean anything.

You still haven't actually pointed out what you 'do' think it means, then, if not "nothing means anything."

Onslaught Six wrote:You still haven't actually pointed out what you 'do' think it means, then, if not "nothing means anything."

I don't see that it matters what I, personally, got out of it. The point of the discussion is just that there is more to the story, not meaninglessness. What I find odd here is that Dom is normally the one to be arguing about needing to find meaning within a piece.

Sparky Prime wrote:

Onslaught Six wrote:You still haven't actually pointed out what you 'do' think it means, then, if not "nothing means anything."

I don't see that it matters what I, personally, got out of it. The point of the discussion is just that there is more to the story, not meaninglessness. What I find odd here is that Dom is normally the one to be arguing about needing to find meaning within a piece.

This argument:
"Final Crisis is about how nothing means anything."
"No it isn't!"
"Okay, what does it mean, then?"
"That's not what this is about!"

Come on, dude. You'll have to do better than that, otherwise you just look like you're deflecting it because you know Dom's right.

First of all, I think we may be confusing 'meaning' with 'ideas' or 'a point' in some places in this argument. My point wasn't that Final Crisis didn't mean anything or didn't have any ideas, but that the point of the comic was that a lot of what came before it hadn't really mattered, and that the stories moving forward needed to be stripped of their 'meaning' if they were to have an impact on the DC Universe/structure.

And anyway, I actually didn't ask Sparky for his opinion/interpretation of FC because I wanted to pick a fight with him about it, but because I was genuinely interested in hearing what he had gotten out of it. I find FC to be a very interesting story in terms of interpretation, and seeing as Sparky has a tendency to see things differently than, say, Dom or I, I was curious as to what his thoughts on it were. It's like asking someone what they got out of Inception, or FLCL.

Onslaught Six wrote:Come on, dude. You'll have to do better than that, otherwise you just look like you're deflecting it because you know Dom's right.

Why would I need to defend this point by submitting my own interpretation? You can do a simple google search and find dozens of different interpretations of the story if you really want to see points of view besides the on Dom is arguing. As such, why would mine make any difference when my point is just that there are other meanings to be had?

Got three comics today: Batgirl #1, Green Lantern #1 and Daredevil #3. Reviews to follow shortly. All three are pretty good. Both GL and Batgirl feel like they carry on directly from the pre-relaunch DC, and as someone who's not happy with some aspects of the reboot, that's a big selling point. Of course I knew beforehand that of all DC's titles that Batman and GL would change the least since they were selling the best, so I'm not surprised, just glad to see it. Also flipped through Batman and Robin #1 today, and it's not bad. I may or may not buy it next week.

Ultimately I've got to whittle my monthly comics back down to five or six comics so I'm not spending too much on them. I've been trying more than my usual share of DC's output, and even some of Marvel's, so we'll see what sticks around in the long run.

Sparky, do you get the concept that "meaninglessness" is, in itself, a *point*? An interpretation? I think that might be what you're missing here.

andersonh1 wrote:Ultimately I've got to whittle my monthly comics back down to five or six comics so I'm not spending too much on them.

Maybe I should, too. I bought enough today that my comic shop owner was making fun of me, acting like his finger was smoking from all the ringing-up I'd had him doing. Good natured ribbing, but dang, when your friendly retailer is busting your balls about buying a lot of comics...

But it's like this: Both my favorite books came out this week, a bunch of books I'm enjoying thoroughly, a couple new books I've been interested in checking out...I mean, dang, I tried to put some back, but I couldn't decide what would go. It does help that I get the ten percent discount for regular customers, so basically one of the books was free.

Gomess wrote:Sparky, do you get the concept that "meaninglessness" is, in itself, a *point*? An interpretation? I think that might be what you're missing here.

I think what happened was that Dom said ‘Final Crisis was about things having no meaning’, which Sparky somehow interpreted as him saying ‘Final Crisis had no meaning’ which is in fact pretty much the *opposite* of what Dom said. So they started arguing about that…for some reason. Then Sparky read my comment about wanting to know his thoughts on FC as me (or maybe he thought I was Dom?) trying to get him to prove that FC had meaning (which none of us were actually arguing against), when really I was just interested in what he thought of the comic. We all actually agree that FC had ‘meaning’, we should just be discussing what we each thought that ‘meaning’ was, instead of misinterpreting and getting defensive over things we actually agree about for once.

So to summarize: You mad, he mad, I mad, everybody mad!

138 Scourge wrote:

andersonh1 wrote:Ultimately I've got to whittle my monthly comics back down to five or six comics so I'm not spending too much on them.

Maybe I should, too. I bought enough today that my comic shop owner was making fun of me, acting like his finger was smoking from all the ringing-up I'd had him doing. Good natured ribbing, but dang, when your friendly retailer is busting your balls about buying a lot of comics...

But it's like this: Both my favorite books came out this week, a bunch of books I'm enjoying thoroughly, a couple new books I've been interested in checking out...I mean, dang, I tried to put some back, but I couldn't decide what would go. It does help that I get the ten percent discount for regular customers, so basically one of the books was free.

Yeah, I could easily get back into the habit of buying twice the number of comics every month that I do, but my wallet would hurt. And I wouldn't have any hobby money for other stuff.

Batgirl #1
My curiousity about how Barbara Gordon was able to walk again made me finally decide to buy this issue. And like Barry Allen, it's novel to have a character that's been out of a role for 25 years or so back in it again. Now I was disappointed by the last Flash series, but this first issue of Batgirl to feature Barbara Gordon is better paced, and Barbara has far more character and personality than Barry Allen did. The exact circumstances under which she can walk again are not detailed, though Gail Simone has said that they will be down the line. That's fine, since the after-effects of her brutalization by the Joker are felt throughout the story. Several panels from "The Killing Joke" are redrawn here as a flashback to that story to illustrate the lasting effects on Batgirl. Barbara is up and walking again, and taking down bad guys, but she's still got the mental scars. And she's nothing like Bruce Wayne or Dick Grayson in similar roles when it comes to personality. I wonder if a female writer writing a female character is responsible for Barbara's unique "voice"?

If I keep buying this book after this month, it will be because I'm interested in seeing Barbara take her journey towards recovery, and because she's simply likeable as a character. An artist I enjoyed in Brightest Day, Ardian Syaf (who drew the Hawkman portions of that storyline) is the penciller on this book, so the art is quite good.

Green Lantern #1
THIS is a darn good issue, which feels as though the DC universe never had a reboot. It picks up where the last series left off with the same writer, artist, and plot threads to resolve, or develop. Hal has no ring, and is forced to deal with the shambles of his personal life as he has no job, no car, the air force wants to discharge him for being absent and he's about to be kicked out of his apartment for being months behind on his rent. And he screws up a dinner with Carol, which just goes to show how disconnected from normal life and relationships he's become.

Sinestro is still forced to be a Green Lantern, but the wheels are turning in his head as he tries to figure out a way out of this. And the Guardians have new plans, which apparently involve forcing Ganthet to conform to their way of thinking. This is the best GL issue in some time, and I'm interested in where this is going. Let's hope Geoff Johns cans the slow pacing and keeps things moving in this new series.

Daredevil #3
So the villain, as Scourge informed me last time, is made of sound. Which makes him tailor made as an adversary to Daredevil and his hyper-acute senses. Seems as though the Klaw duplicates are not the real Klaw, who is lost in space somewhere, but portions of Klaw who are trying to restore the original, using Daredevil as the human template. Naturally he objects. He's very human in this issue, as the loud sounds freak him out and disorient him, causing him to react without his usual fearless, reckless attitude. And the way in which he helps his client is clever. A few plot threads are left unexplained for next time, but this first arc is largely wrapped up. Nice to see some storytelling that isn't stretched out over six issues to fill a trade!

I flipped through Batman and Robin #1, and it looks pretty good. Very different dynamic between Bruce and Damien than we saw with Dick Grayson and Damien. And I took a look at Mr. Terrific #1, but didn't care for the art at all. That makes it easier to skip the book, even if I did like the character in JSA.