Is Transformers an emotionally-stunted franchise?

[Tigermegatron]

David willis is only doing well with his short packed comics thanks to TFCC & it's crew.

Despite Willis being friends with some of the TFCC writers and production staff, he does not actually get any money from it. (If he does, it's only for his "Recordicons" strip, which is a one-panel gag thing that shows up on the back of the "magazine," and has only been running for maybe a year or two at best.)

Despite what we might think of him personally, Willis has a successful webcomic. Shortpacked did not spring up overnight as a "webcomic about toys," it's a sequel to his older comics (and thus has a built-in audience already). Willis has been doing webcomics since the mid-90s, and has gained a large enough following to enable him to do so professionally (i.e. without having a day job to pay his bills). And his older comic has a subscription model service that apparently works and pays well. Shortpacked is also not the only webcomic he has right now--he has another one that apparently has way more readers than Shortpacked, despite featuring a lot of the same characters. (It's an alternate universe, or something. I don't know, I don't read it. It looks stupid.) As much as I might begrudge him for his opinions (sometimes) and his general sphere of influence (definitely), he makes his living legitimately.

I don't consider it lisecensed nor professional because it's being done by fan for fans. liscensed or professional status is only earned if it's sold in stores & gets released in decent volume where the general public can buy it.

Those TFCC Magazine comics,I don't consider liscensed nor professional,as their being done by fans for fans. most who write & draw those club comics are considered amatuer hacks & haven't earned the title of legimate liscenced professionals. The TFCC magazine with comics inside of it are being targeted to a private elite sector not a mass release general public stores/sites sector of buyers.

All TFCC gave was a big break to David willis,it was more or less a group of fans helping out fans in their tight nit community. BY NO MEANS WILL THIS TFCC BREAK LEAD TO NOR BRANCH OUT INTO OTHER BREAKS FOR DAVID WILLIS. In other words if hasbro pulls the TF liscense from Fun pub or if fun pub can't pay the TF liscense anymore. Without TFCC david willis won't get another gig in the same league that TFCC gave him.

06,Are you actually saying their are groups of fans paying david willis money to view his on-line web-comics? I guess their are suckers born every second. IF THIS IS TRUE THIS IS THE MOST FUNNIEST THING EVER. I don't know what's more funny to laugh at,do we laugh at the fans who are dumb enough to get suckered into buying un-liscensed fan fiction for money. or do we laugh along with david that he was able to trick suckers into paying subscription fees to view/read his on-line web comics. WHAT HILARIOUS IS DAVID CHARGING & FANS PAYING WHEN 99% OF THE TIME THESE WEB COMICS DONE BY TF FANS FOR FANS ARE FREE TO VIEW/READ ON-LINE.

[Gomess]

Well, as with anyone with an ego problem, the best strategy is not to validate them.

So.

Dom raises some points- whether intentionally or not- about relativism here. I mean, Transformers is definitely *less* emotionally stunted than it used to be, and I guess I'm thankful for that. To answer the OP question, yes, relatively it is emotionally stunted. But no, relatively it isn't.

[Onslaught Six]

I don't consider it lisecensed nor professional because it's being done by fan for fans. liscensed or professional status is only earned if it's sold in stores & gets released in decent volume where the general public can buy it.

When did I ever say his comic was "licensed?" That has nothing to do with anything.

Someone is defined as a "professional" when they are paid for doing a service as a living. David Willis draws webcomics and gets money for doing it. He is, by definition, a professional webcartoonist.

All TFCC gave was a big break to David willis,it was more or less a group of fans helping out fans in their tight nit community. BY NO MEANS WILL THIS TFCC BREAK LEAD TO NOR BRANCH OUT INTO OTHER BREAKS FOR DAVID WILLIS. In other words if hasbro pulls the TF liscense from Fun pub or if fun pub can't pay the TF liscense anymore. Without TFCC david willis won't get another gig in the same league that TFCC gave him.

I don't...I don't understand where you think Willis is making his living from TFCC. Willis has next to fucking nothing to do with TFCC besides being friends with them. His success is mostly unrelated to TFCC. He started his webcomic in the mid-90s, BEFORE TFCC WAS EVEN CREATED.

06,Are you actually saying their are groups of fans paying david willis money to view his on-line web-comics? I guess their are suckers born every second. IF THIS IS TRUE THIS IS THE MOST FUNNIEST THING EVER. I don't know what's more funny to laugh at,do we laugh at the fans who are dumb enough to get suckered into buying un-liscensed fan fiction for money. or do we laugh along with david that he was able to trick suckers into paying subscription fees to view/read his on-line web comics. WHAT HILARIOUS IS DAVID CHARGING & FANS PAYING WHEN 99% OF THE TIME THESE WEB COMICS DONE BY TF FANS FOR FANS ARE FREE TO VIEW/READ ON-LINE.

[/quote]

I don't...

Shortpacked isn't fanfiction, and especially neither are any of his webcomics. They're mostly centered around people doing...people-y things. Right now, Shortpacked is about a talking car who got rebuilt as a girl, and I don't read his other webcomic so I don't know what it's about, but it has nothing to do with toys or Transformers AT ALL.

You seem to be under the impression that Willis writes webcomics about Transformers. And while he has occasionally done strips like that, his comic strips are usually something more like this shit:


Now, that's not really anything I give any shits about, which is why I stopped reading it (and also Willis is a dumb jerk) but it certainly has fuck-all to do with toys, TFCC or Transformers.

And yes, people do give Willis money, all the time. He sells compilation books of his comics on his website, and also has some t-shirts and other assorted merch.

Say what you will about Willis, but his webcomic is legitimately successful. He makes a living and buys toys with the money it earns.

(I can't fucking believe where this thread has gone.)

[Gomess]

I was hoping we wouldn't get to the point of completely validating the guy by actually posting pages from his comic.

But yes, Shortpacked is a different thing to... whatever the heck he's contributed to TFCC. I dunno what that'd even be.

But, anyway, emotionally stunted?

[Onslaught Six]

I was hoping we wouldn't get to the point of completely validating the guy by actually posting pages from his comic.

Me too.

But yes, Shortpacked is a different thing to... whatever the heck he's contributed to TFCC. I dunno what that'd even be.

He does a one-panel strip about Shattered Glass Ravage. They stick it on the back. He probably does it for free.

But, anyway, emotionally stunted?

Probably!

[Gomess]

I guess any franchise which could come up with Shattered Glass must have some deepseated emotional problems.

Actually, I wonder what the actual creative forces behind the TF IP think about emotional depth? Like, as people. Maybe it doesn't even enter as a factor, because they're still doing business for 80s boys.

[Dominic]

I was hoping we wouldn't get to the point of completely validating the guy by actually posting pages from his comic.

Hell, we are actively supporting him. If he makes rent this month, I am holding a few people here personally responsible.

Well, as with anyone with an ego problem, the best strategy is not to validate them.

Where have you been? Wacky idea there. But, we might give it a try.

But, anyway, emotionally stunted?

Nah, this is a hate with real depth and legitimacy.

I guess any franchise which could come up with Shattered Glass must have some deepseated emotional problems.

It is more a lack of creativity, which would more get in to the question of being intellectually stunted (which I kind of conflated in to this thread earlier).

"Shattered Glass" is explicitly based on that episode of the original "Star Trek" series, hence the name evoking glass and mirror imagery. A significant number of the character personalities are based on characters in movies, television shows or other comics that the writers recall seeing/reading. The character designs typically take a "spin the colour wheel" approach (which is arguably justified in order to make recolours easier to produce), or are based on existing colour schemes of more obscure toys.

The latter practice is formally called "repurposing", and epitomizes the lack of creativity endemic to Fun Publicatons. Repurposing is essentially reclassifying an existing toy of one character as an entirely new character. (It is customizing for the lazy and untalented.) Fun Publications takes it to a new low and even repurposes toys that are not even appropriate for the characters they have ben reclassified as, mmeaning that they are even being lazy about what toys they lazily repurpose.

Actually, I wonder what the actual creative forces behind the TF IP think about emotional depth? Like, as people. Maybe it doesn't even enter as a factor, because they're still doing business for 80s boys.

Fun Publications does not seem to invest much intellectual capital in to developing their IP. They do not even necessarily follow up on existing story threads. (Granted, nothing is really lost in this case, given the caliber of their work. But, it does show how little thinking goes in to the content that they market and charge money for.)

Ironically, from what I have seen, most of the people who are reading (and liking) the Fun Publications stuff are the guys who came in during the "Beast Years". The comics and text stories are largely *written* by 80s boys. But, I know at least one 80s boy's boy who snorts derisively at Fun Publications output, and calls it fanfic. (This puts me in the odd position of defending Fun Publications on the basis of them being official. But, that is a topic for another thread.)

The best writing from Fun Publications reaches the level of competent hackery and incorporates genre elements reasonably well. (And, even that level of writing is *rare*.) There are obligatory happy/sad/scary moments, but nothing that an 8 year old would not see right through.

Actually, here is a nice and quick way to describe Fun Publications content: "It is just like this other thing, but now with Transformers in it."

Dom raises some points- whether intentionally or not- about relativism here. I mean, Transformers is definitely *less* emotionally stunted than it used to be, and I guess I'm thankful for that. To answer the OP question, yes, relatively it is emotionally stunted. But no, relatively it isn't.

The point I was getting at is that a long-running franchise is going to grow, but will likely suffer some mis-steps along the way.

The caliber of writing in TF has improved over the years, as it has with comics in general. But, to get "Superman: Red Son", the industry arguably had to go through the painfully bad polemicomics of the 70s. Similarly, Hasbro and license holders have a learning curve as well. Hasbro initially marketed TFs as (to use JT's wording from elsewhere) "puzzle toys with personalities".

The developed IP is what put TF above (better designed) toys like "Go-Bots!" back in the 80s. But, there was a trade-off. Fans learned to punish or reward Hasbro (with purchases or angry letters) based as much on the content as on the toys. (I recall fans who dropped the franchise in 1986 after Prime and a number of other characters were killed off.) Hasbro had to make that adjustment.

Right now, I would argue that Hasbro is generally making the right movies in terms of IP development. (They are botching the basics of toy production and distribution. But, that is a question for another thread.) Hasbro is effectively splitting the market.

The Bay movies nicely increased the market presence of "Transformers", profiting from nostalgia as well as new/younger fans. The "Prime" cartoon, for all of its misteps, is an attempt by Hasbro to build and refine its IP. And, it is more polished than previous cartoons, including precious G1. And, the comics are generally being pitched to a different market. Hasbro is allowing IDW to handle "Transformers" like a comicbook. Hasbro learned how much better the comics could be in the 90s when they gave Tokar (along with Furman and Wildman) control of a moribund series for about two years. As a result, companies like Dreamwave and IDW had more creative freedom.


The problem that IDW, and by extension the franchise, is having now relates to the fans. IDW wants to expand the franchise and their market. But, a significant number of the existing fan-base does not want that. In some cases, it is blatant insularity. (I personally know fans who do not want new people coming in to "their" hobby.) In other cases, they are simply unable to deal with comics that are more likely to be pitched higher. And, the potential/new fans are not quite ready to accept TF as a legitimate franchise, regardless of how good the comics may be.


Dom
-would have bailed long ago if not for the comics.

[Onslaught Six]

I guess I just don't understand where your line is--Chromedome and Rewind having an emotionally-driven relationship is "pandering to the wrong kind of fan," but Costa and McCarthy were "pitching higher?" (Not to take away anything from either of them, but come on.)

EDIT: Actually, I want to address part of why I continue to read MTMTE: It makes me happy. I read it, and I laugh, and I enjoy reading it...and I don't really read into it more than that. This is generally how I go about things. (Occasionally, it backfires. I saw the Thor film in theaters with some friends and had a great time, so I defended the film to people for a long time afterward. Rewatching it on my own last year at home proved to be a noticably different experience.)

[Gomess]

"Shattered Glass" is explicitly based on that episode of the original "Star Trek" series

Good, well now that I know this I definitely don't need to pull any punches on SG. Jeebus.

[Onslaught Six]

SG would be worth shitting on even if it didn't have origins as a Star Trek riff.

Literally any time I see anyone mention it, I pretty much tell them they're a horrible person.