Sparky Prime wrote:I'm just going to skip to this point because it's become obvious the rest of this argument is just going to keep going around and around circles and I'm tried of being misquoted in one way or another, so we're just going to have to agree to disagree on it. Also, I need to point out wiki is not a reliable source. But for this point, it sounds to me that you're making up your own fiction by ignoring those other films. Whether or not you personally like them or they have different creators, it's still a part of the fiction.
What wiki isn't a reliable source, and not a reliable source for what?
It's certainly debatable whether T3 and TS deserve to be part of them, it's not like the rights were intended to be sold at auction. They're clearly not what Cameron had in mind.
Dominic wrote:I am recalling something in the movie, (but it might have been in an early draft script), about Megatron and Sentinal intending to meet on the moon, hence the buried army. (This still does not explain why Megatron just left them their during the first two movies. But, is incompentent story telling really that much of a suprise from Bay and Co? Honestly, I am suprised that TF3 was as well edited as it was....which is still a low standard.)
Sentinel says he intended to meet Megatron on Earth, but I don't remember anything in the film being about meeting on the moon. Burying an army there still makes NO SENSE though, nor does Megatron's reason for coming to Earth getting retconned into meeting Sentinel. No, incompetent storytelling isn't that much a surprise.
It was a background thing during the Chicago attack sequence.
I meant the part about that character being shown as a protoform coming to Earth and scanning its new altmode. The picture makes clear it was rendered for the movie, although I don't remember it because, as you said, it was a background thing.
I would argue that yes, killing the only member of a species would be a type of genocide.
Genocide: the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, ethnic, political, or cultural group.
Species: a species is one of the basic units of biological classification and a taxonomic rank. A species is often defined as a group of organisms capable of interbreeding and producing fertile offspring.
Under those definitions, Skynet is not a "species" since it is not a biological entity nor is it capable of interbreeding or producing fertile offspring. Also, "genocide" is not the right term because it's not a national, religious, or ethnic group, and the initial attempt to take Skynet offline was not a deliberate, systematic attempt to exterminate anything.
Why does the fact that a given life was not "natural" or "spontaneously created" diminish its right to exist?
Because we recognize natural creation and evolution as the authority of a higher power - whether that's God, gods, or nature it's deemed to be a right to exist based on the gift of its creator. However, with a machine lifeform, we are its creator in every way so it's a different set of rules, it ultimately answers to us, it is our mechanical offspring.
Remember, I am arguing that it is possible for 2 or more parties to have conflicting rights. One group, (in the case of "Terminator", us), is rationally going to put its right above the rights of the other(s). And, we do like to assign ourselves some degree of moral status to justify what we do for basic (practical) survival. But,
Remember, I said that I would not be against pulling Skynet's plug. But, I would not pretend that it was not genocide. But, I would not say that there is an obligation for the "other" (Skynet in this case) to simply die.
Rights can conflict.
This doesn't actually seem like a philosophical argument, it seems like the opposite, trying to have it both ways.
Onslaught Six wrote:Yeah, a couple shots, really. But he is an important plot element! Almost! You see this long shot of Prime about to fight Megs and Sentinel, and then Bumblebee and the other Autobots go running to join the fight, when this big fucker pops out and is all "RYAAAAGGGH" and you're like "oh man a cool fight scene is about to happen!"
And then it doesn't, because we cut to Megs killing Megs and Sentinel, and then at the end the Autobots just walk over and cheer.
How is that almost an important plot point? And what stops this thing once Sentinel dies, just the director calling "cut"? There's no story excuse for it just ceasing hostilities?
