All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

[Sparky Prime]

You're just not going to accept that war and a near-death experience can change someone, are you? I don't have a problem with that as the explanation. Sunstreaker's pretty screwed up after being captured by the Machination, tortured, decapitated, and used as a template to form an army to attack his fellow Autobots... should he still be acting as he did in Infiltration? Should he be the same person he was before? Certainly not. Perceptor nearly got killed. He shouldn't be the same either.

I don't have a problem with war/near-death changing someone. But I don't see Perceptor exactly portrayed that way. I mean, he does change his profession, and that is explained by his near-death experience. But I don't see that big of a change in his personality in AHM#15 when he makes his sniper modifications. He's still the same Perceptor there, he just wants to be a sniper to 'pay back' Kup's group for saving him. What I don't see him being the 'cold scary sniper' there, suggesting that change must have come after, and hasn't been shown/explained in the comics yet.

Sunstreaker you'll notice I haven't complained about his characterization (other than a small hiccup of continuity in AHM#14 and the scope of destruction he wanted to bring on humanity). We actually saw all the pain and suffering he went through, through several story arcs which easily explain his personality changes in AHM. I can completely understand why he becomes unbalanced due to those experiences that we actually witnessed and have an understanding of. But again, we don't see Perceptor's 'evolution' from "people bot" to "cold and scary" which leaves it somewhat of a question as to how that change in his personality actually happened.

[andersonh1]

You're just not going to accept that war and a near-death experience can change someone, are you? I don't have a problem with that as the explanation. Sunstreaker's pretty screwed up after being captured by the Machination, tortured, decapitated, and used as a template to form an army to attack his fellow Autobots... should he still be acting as he did in Infiltration? Should he be the same person he was before? Certainly not. Perceptor nearly got killed. He shouldn't be the same either.

I don't have a problem with war/near-death changing someone. But I don't see Perceptor exactly portrayed that way. I mean, he does change his profession, and that is explained by his near-death experience. But I don't see that big of a change in his personality in AHM#15 when he makes his sniper modifications. He's still the same Perceptor there, he just wants to be a sniper to 'pay back' Kup's group for saving him. What I don't see him being the 'cold scary sniper' there, suggesting that change must have come after, and hasn't been shown/explained in the comics yet.

That's possible, though he's certainly a bit 'cold' in the issue where it shows him making the modifications to himself. He's not quite as outgoing and friendly as I normally remember Perceptor being. But you're right, there's certainly room to expand further on the changes to the character.

[Sparky Prime]

That's possible, though he's certainly a bit 'cold' in the issue where it shows him making the modifications to himself. He's not quite as outgoing and friendly as I normally remember Perceptor being. But you're right, there's certainly room to expand further on the changes to the character.

Well I wouldn't call that Perceptor being cold... The others didn't want Perceptor to be a sniper, they wanted him to say where he was, as a scientist. But he wouldn't take 'no' for an answer because he felt he owed it to them.

[Shockwave]

because he felt he owed it to them.

That actually could be defined as the opposite of cold.

[Dominic]

Perceptor might not be "cold and scary" to the guys he works with regularly. But, to a guy like Tracks, who has not seen Perceptor in however long a time, "Perceptor (The Hitman)" is going to be disconcerting.


And, again, as I have said, it makes complete sense that Sunstreaker, (a sociopath to begin with), would want to kill every member of a species that attacked and humliated him. McCarthy compared it to being raped, which should give it a sense of scale. (If you cannot make a good showing during the initial attack, there is nothing wrong with going back later for a pound or two of flesh.)

Dom
-would probably do the same thing.

[Sparky Prime]

Perceptor might not be "cold and scary" to the guys he works with regularly. But, to a guy like Tracks, who has not seen Perceptor in however long a time, "Perceptor (The Hitman)" is going to be disconcerting.

Again, AHM shows Perceptor to be 'cold and scary' to everyone. Even 'bots that know him, like Ratchet, see how totally different he has become.

And, again, as I have said, it makes complete sense that Sunstreaker, (a sociopath to begin with), would want to kill every member of a species that attacked and humliated him. McCarthy compared it to being raped, which should give it a sense of scale. (If you cannot make a good showing during the initial attack, there is nothing wrong with going back later for a pound or two of flesh.)

And again, I disagree that Sunstreaker would feel genocide of the entire human race would make up for what happened to him, sociopath or not. He knows it was only a select group of humans that attacked him, and that they were lead by a Decepticon. And he knows a human (Hunter) was helping him. As such, it should only be those that were responsible he'd want revenge against, not the entire species.

[andersonh1]

And, again, as I have said, it makes complete sense that Sunstreaker, (a sociopath to begin with), would want to kill every member of a species that attacked and humliated him. McCarthy compared it to being raped, which should give it a sense of scale. (If you cannot make a good showing during the initial attack, there is nothing wrong with going back later for a pound or two of flesh.)

And again, I disagree that Sunstreaker would feel genocide of the entire human race would make up for what happened to him, sociopath or not. He knows it was only a select group of humans that attacked him, and that they were lead by a Decepticon. And he knows a human (Hunter) was helping him. As such, it should only be those that were responsible he'd want revenge against, not the entire species.

If he was thinking rationally, you'd be right. If on the other hand, his shame and anger got the better of him, even for a short time, it would have been enough to get him to agree to Starscream's offer. Dom's rape analogy is exactly right. Sunstreaker was violated in a horrible way, and it's obvious that the matter was weighing heavily on his mind, and it seems obvious as well that what Sunstreaker did was equivalent to lashing out at everyone around him rather than making a rational choice. Sometimes that happens. After all that Sunstreaker's been through in the -ation series, his actions in AHM make sense to me.

[Dominic]

Part of being a sociopath is not being able/willing to identify with others. Generally, this is assumed to be "others of one's own species". If one does not identify with members of their own species, they are unlikely to identify with members of another. As it is, I know {presumably) non-sociopaths who do not identify with domestic animals. It is reasonable assume that a member of a highly advanced species like Cybertronians would not regard humans as worthy of individual moral consideration.

In other words, Sunstreaker wanting to see humanity wiped out makes perfect sense.


By the way, the rape analogy was McCarthy's.

Again, AHM shows Perceptor to be 'cold and scary' to everyone. Even 'bots that know him, like Ratchet, see how totally different he has become.

When was the last time Ratchet had seen Perceptor before AHM? If you have not seen someone, even an old friend, for a long time, any changes they (or you) have gone through might be disconcerting.


Dom
-unless we assume everybody is progressing/acting as they would be in the old cartoon.

[Shockwave]

Part of being a sociopath is not being able/willing to identify with others. Generally, this is assumed to be "others of one's own species". If one does not identify with members of their own species, they are unlikely to identify with members of another. As it is, I know {presumably) non-sociopaths who do not identify with domestic animals. It is reasonable assume that a member of a highly advanced species like Cybertronians would not regard humans as worthy of individual moral consideration.

In other words, Sunstreaker wanting to see humanity wiped out makes perfect sense.


By the way, the rape analogy was McCarthy's.

So it would be like if one of us got raped by a colony of ants? We'd want them wiped out anyway and even more so if they did something like that.

[Sparky Prime]

If he was thinking rationally, you'd be right. If on the other hand, his shame and anger got the better of him, even for a short time, it would have been enough to get him to agree to Starscream's offer.

I still don't agree. Clearly Sunstreaker isn't in his right mind after the experience, but genocide of an entire species? To use the rape analogy, if someone is raped, do they want to kill all the men (or women) in the world? In general, I doubt it. I could understand a level of insecurity around that group of people afterwords, but in general I believe the anger is directed solely on those responsible, not everyone of that gender.

In other words, Sunstreaker wanting to see humanity wiped out makes perfect sense.

You're comparing non-sociopaths not associating with animals as your reasoning for why it makes perfect sense for Sunstreaker to want to kill all of humanity? That's a logical fallacy Dom. Trying to justify something as perfect sense by using something unrelated doesn't work.

When was the last time Ratchet had seen Perceptor before AHM? If you have not seen someone, even an old friend, for a long time, any changes they (or you) have gone through might be disconcerting.

Ratchet was just an example, and you're missing the point. It's not that Perceptor has gone through some changes, he's become someone completely different, as represented by the distinction of 'old vs new'.