Comics are awesome.
Re: Comics are awesome.
So... you guys are comics fans arguing about... other.... comics fans.... Yeah, I'm out of this one.
Re: Comics are awesome.
No, I'm not even into comic books, so it's even weirder.
COME TO TFVIEWS oh you already did
Re: Comics are awesome.
Barda, or any character, has no self or moral value. I can guarantee that you are more upset by this than she could possibly be. (And, yes, I use pronouns like "he" and "she" to describe fictionional characters. But, this is a question of ease of writing more than actually humanizing said character.)
Story and character are not inherently tied together. Otherwise, it would be much harder to write bad comics, what with all of those great characters kicking about.
Mocking a badly written character in a poorly constructed scenario is a far cry from mocking an actual person based on something like race, gender or any other trait. (And, again, I am not arguing if the Byrne story in question is good or not. For the purpose of this arguement, i am just going to assume it is as bad as Linkara says it is in order to keep the arguement focused.)
Hell, even if Barda were a real woman, mocking her would be fine and dandy if she behaved in a foolish way (which by implication, Byrne's writing would require the character to do). There is nothing inconsistent with mocking a woman for being foolish if mockery would notmally be one's response to foolish behavior. (Am I a sexist because I have no more sympathy for foolish and childish women than I do for foolish and childish men? I would argue no. But, some "feminists" have accused me of being a sexist for my lack of sympathy.)
Dom
-has not see the "X-Men" review in question.
Story and character are not inherently tied together. Otherwise, it would be much harder to write bad comics, what with all of those great characters kicking about.
Who should he respect in this situation? He is arguing that the comic is bad, implying that there is no need to respect it or the writer/artist/editor. Is the funny voice cheap pop? Yeah. Might the review be served better by a more sober comment or criticism? In likelihood, yes. But, one might argue that mocking a stupid enough subject legitimizes a cheap and childish tactic. (I am pretty sure that "sophmoric" implies, if not requires, bawdy or lewd humour rather than simple immaturity.)Giving Big Barda a stupid voice is just a sophomoric way of making fun of a stupid situation, with no respect for anyone or anything involved.
Mocking a badly written character in a poorly constructed scenario is a far cry from mocking an actual person based on something like race, gender or any other trait. (And, again, I am not arguing if the Byrne story in question is good or not. For the purpose of this arguement, i am just going to assume it is as bad as Linkara says it is in order to keep the arguement focused.)
Hell, even if Barda were a real woman, mocking her would be fine and dandy if she behaved in a foolish way (which by implication, Byrne's writing would require the character to do). There is nothing inconsistent with mocking a woman for being foolish if mockery would notmally be one's response to foolish behavior. (Am I a sexist because I have no more sympathy for foolish and childish women than I do for foolish and childish men? I would argue no. But, some "feminists" have accused me of being a sexist for my lack of sympathy.)
Dom
-has not see the "X-Men" review in question.
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Onslaught Six
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Re: Comics are awesome.
Because you (mostly) see characters as a vehicle for story and metanarrative point. G doesn't see things that way too often. We've been over this!Dominic wrote:Barda, or any character, has no self or moral value. I can guarantee that you are more upset by this than she could possibly be. (And, yes, I use pronouns like "he" and "she" to describe fictionional characters. But, this is a question of ease of writing more than actually humanizing said character.)
I'ma go sleep now.
People spend so much time worrying about whether a figure is "mint" or not that they never stop to consider other flavours.BWprowl wrote:The internet having this many different words to describe nerdy folks is akin to the whole eskimos/ice situation, I would presume.
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andersonh1
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Re: Comics are awesome.
On a completely different comic topic...
I ran across "The Flash: Rebirth" in paperback last week (a year after the hardback edition came out, which I was too cheap to buy), so I bought it. I've been more than a little interested in the fact that for the first time in a quarter century, Barry Allen is a major character in the DC universe again, rather than the "saint" who gave his life to save the universe back during the Crisis. I've been buying the monthly series and have found it somewhat slow, ironically, but it makes a lot more sense after reading "Rebirth".
The basic plot is this: Barry Allen is alive again, and wondering how and why it happened. Over the course of the series he learns exactly how. It all revolves around Eobard Thawne, the reverse-Flash, who is essentially a psychotic stalker with super speed. He returned Barry Allen to life and altered his past all for the purpose of making Allen as miserable as possible without killing him. A lot of this ties into the current monthly Flash series and the Flashpoint event which has just started, which sees Thawne further pushing the boundaries of how he can alter time, something none of the Flashes have been able to do up to this point.
On the one hand, all of this is a nice change from reading Wally as the Flash, as much as I like that character, because a lot of his series was about him filling Allen's shoes. Not all of it, of course, and he had grown into his own character. But suddenly we're dealing with a Flash that's very different from Wally and a villain that's very powerful and very dangerous, who isn't easily defeated despite four Flashes and Jesse Quick fighting him. I wish the monthly series was as interesting as Rebirth. The idea that Thawne hates Allen so much that he wouldn't leave him dead, but would bring him back to life (of back from the speed force, whichever you prefer) just to make him miserable is amusing in a twisted way.
Overall, I enjoyed the fact that all the major Flashes play a part in the story, and that the ideas presented in Rebirth are interesting. I worry that they're making the Flash so powerful that writing for the character will be as difficult as writing for Superman. What could possibly challenge him if he's not only faster than anyone, but can travel in time at will and alter past events?
One final amusing note: Superman is trying to catch Barry Allen at one point, and he notes that he had raced Allen at several points, and even beat him once or twice. Barry tells him "those races were for charity, Clark", and he runs off making Superman look like he's standing still.
I ran across "The Flash: Rebirth" in paperback last week (a year after the hardback edition came out, which I was too cheap to buy), so I bought it. I've been more than a little interested in the fact that for the first time in a quarter century, Barry Allen is a major character in the DC universe again, rather than the "saint" who gave his life to save the universe back during the Crisis. I've been buying the monthly series and have found it somewhat slow, ironically, but it makes a lot more sense after reading "Rebirth".
The basic plot is this: Barry Allen is alive again, and wondering how and why it happened. Over the course of the series he learns exactly how. It all revolves around Eobard Thawne, the reverse-Flash, who is essentially a psychotic stalker with super speed. He returned Barry Allen to life and altered his past all for the purpose of making Allen as miserable as possible without killing him. A lot of this ties into the current monthly Flash series and the Flashpoint event which has just started, which sees Thawne further pushing the boundaries of how he can alter time, something none of the Flashes have been able to do up to this point.
On the one hand, all of this is a nice change from reading Wally as the Flash, as much as I like that character, because a lot of his series was about him filling Allen's shoes. Not all of it, of course, and he had grown into his own character. But suddenly we're dealing with a Flash that's very different from Wally and a villain that's very powerful and very dangerous, who isn't easily defeated despite four Flashes and Jesse Quick fighting him. I wish the monthly series was as interesting as Rebirth. The idea that Thawne hates Allen so much that he wouldn't leave him dead, but would bring him back to life (of back from the speed force, whichever you prefer) just to make him miserable is amusing in a twisted way.
Overall, I enjoyed the fact that all the major Flashes play a part in the story, and that the ideas presented in Rebirth are interesting. I worry that they're making the Flash so powerful that writing for the character will be as difficult as writing for Superman. What could possibly challenge him if he's not only faster than anyone, but can travel in time at will and alter past events?
One final amusing note: Superman is trying to catch Barry Allen at one point, and he notes that he had raced Allen at several points, and even beat him once or twice. Barry tells him "those races were for charity, Clark", and he runs off making Superman look like he's standing still.
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Sparky Prime
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Re: Comics are awesome.
Dominic wrote:Barda, or any character, has no self or moral value. I can guarantee that you are more upset by this than she could possibly be.
Re: Comics are awesome.
Heh. Good one.
Dom
-notes that Morrison had some things to say about this in "Animal Man".
Dom
-notes that Morrison had some things to say about this in "Animal Man".
Re: Comics are awesome.
Remainder of the FCBD haul:
Spiderman:
I am pretty sure this is reprinted from a recent issue of "Spiderman". But, I am not sure. In any case, beyond being an accurate example of current "Spiderman", this one sets up for the next arc, which happens to feature Shang-Chi. It is definitely an example of Marvel using FCBD as a hook to bring in new readers. Some may balk at the idea of a FCBD book not being a complete story. But, few comics are self-contained at this point. And, the point of FCBD is to lure in new readers.
Grade: A
Thor/Captain America:
Double time travel story, featuring WWII Steve Rogers and current Thor. I am guessing this is not set in 616 Marvel, as modern Thor does not seem to know who Captain America is. It is standard Saturday morning time travel, with Thor and Captain America being sent back to the time of Arthur Pendragon. Nothing special.
Grade: B/C
And, regular comic reviews:
New Avengers #12:
Both plots continue, with the past-tense plot resolving in a way that makes me think it was editorially mandated. Good capes and tights filler, but I cannot think of much else to recommend it for. The art is lacking. Next issue is billed as the conclusion, rather than a "Fear Itself" tie-in.
Grade: C
Batman Inc #6:
More bat-globe-hopping. If anybody but Morrison was writing this book, I would have dropped it already. But, I still have issue 7 sitting unread at the foot of my bed. And, Morrison is known for building idea slowly, as he did in "Final Crisis". I have no doubt that Morrison will be saying something. And, curiosity about what that will be is going to keep me coming back.
Dom
-behind in comics, despite a light FCBD haul.
Spiderman:
I am pretty sure this is reprinted from a recent issue of "Spiderman". But, I am not sure. In any case, beyond being an accurate example of current "Spiderman", this one sets up for the next arc, which happens to feature Shang-Chi. It is definitely an example of Marvel using FCBD as a hook to bring in new readers. Some may balk at the idea of a FCBD book not being a complete story. But, few comics are self-contained at this point. And, the point of FCBD is to lure in new readers.
Grade: A
Thor/Captain America:
Double time travel story, featuring WWII Steve Rogers and current Thor. I am guessing this is not set in 616 Marvel, as modern Thor does not seem to know who Captain America is. It is standard Saturday morning time travel, with Thor and Captain America being sent back to the time of Arthur Pendragon. Nothing special.
Grade: B/C
And, regular comic reviews:
New Avengers #12:
Both plots continue, with the past-tense plot resolving in a way that makes me think it was editorially mandated. Good capes and tights filler, but I cannot think of much else to recommend it for. The art is lacking. Next issue is billed as the conclusion, rather than a "Fear Itself" tie-in.
Grade: C
Batman Inc #6:
More bat-globe-hopping. If anybody but Morrison was writing this book, I would have dropped it already. But, I still have issue 7 sitting unread at the foot of my bed. And, Morrison is known for building idea slowly, as he did in "Final Crisis". I have no doubt that Morrison will be saying something. And, curiosity about what that will be is going to keep me coming back.
Dom
-behind in comics, despite a light FCBD haul.
Re: Comics are awesome.
Batman Inc #7:
Remember what I said last time, (posted above)? Well.... Morrison partially accounts for how people would not make the connection that Wayne is Batman, taking the idea of "security through obscurity" to a near absurd degree while drawing on threads from "The Return of Bruce Wayne". The biggest problem with the series comes down to the fact that none of the obvious consequences of the idea being played out will stick much past Morrison leaving the book. It is a safe bet that the extra Batmen will be fodder for DC's next big reboot event.
Grade: B
Remember what I said last time, (posted above)? Well.... Morrison partially accounts for how people would not make the connection that Wayne is Batman, taking the idea of "security through obscurity" to a near absurd degree while drawing on threads from "The Return of Bruce Wayne". The biggest problem with the series comes down to the fact that none of the obvious consequences of the idea being played out will stick much past Morrison leaving the book. It is a safe bet that the extra Batmen will be fodder for DC's next big reboot event.
Grade: B
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andersonh1
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Re: Comics are awesome.
Flashpoint #1
I went back and forth on whether or not I was interested in this story. It's a fairly standard alternate universe storyline that we've seen many times before. It's essentially an Elseworlds on a large scale, where DC's characters are different in some subtle ways or some more pronounced ways. I won't be buying all of the tie-ins, but I may well buy one or two. The story is the culmination of everything that the Reverse-Flash has been doing since Flash: Rebirth. I'm not sure what he did to produce this dystopic version of the DC universe or why, and we'll see if the story provides any answers. The first issue is all setup.
Spoilers:That last story twist was what actually caught my interest enough to follow the story and see where it went.
Overall: It's a setup issue, with a lot of characters standing around arguing. Not the most interesting beginning, though some of the ideas presented have potential. Unless it just goes downhill fast, I'll stick around for the remaining four issues, and possibly a mini-series or two.
I went back and forth on whether or not I was interested in this story. It's a fairly standard alternate universe storyline that we've seen many times before. It's essentially an Elseworlds on a large scale, where DC's characters are different in some subtle ways or some more pronounced ways. I won't be buying all of the tie-ins, but I may well buy one or two. The story is the culmination of everything that the Reverse-Flash has been doing since Flash: Rebirth. I'm not sure what he did to produce this dystopic version of the DC universe or why, and we'll see if the story provides any answers. The first issue is all setup.
Spoilers:
Spoiler
Aquaman and Wonder Woman are both trying to take over portions of the world, and are about to go to war with each other. Aquaman's method is to drown vast areas, and he's apparently already killed millions. There is no Superman. Flash has lost his powers. Batman is not Bruce Wayne, he's Thomas Wayne.
Overall: It's a setup issue, with a lot of characters standing around arguing. Not the most interesting beginning, though some of the ideas presented have potential. Unless it just goes downhill fast, I'll stick around for the remaining four issues, and possibly a mini-series or two.
Yep, C-listers always die in droves in these big events. Or often do anyway. But then, what else are they good for?Dominic wrote: It is a safe bet that the extra Batmen will be fodder for DC's next big reboot event.