TF Views

And Roberts does deserve credit for doing some things with the concept of a race of shape-shifters beyond just the obvious of having them utilize the alt modes and nothing more. But I think he's gone too far in largely jettisoning the act of transformation in favor of developing the philosophical implications of it. Surely we can have both?

BWprowl wrote:See, it’d be easier for me to believe that this was all there was to it if Roberts hadn’t already been undermining and spitting in the face of transformation as a concept in Transformers at every turn. As it is, we have stuff like Monoformers, the entire thing with Rung’s altmode (“You shouldn’t care about what a Transformer turns into! It’s not interesting and doesn’t amount to anything!”), Chromedome getting made fun of for wanting to transform, and the fact that *no one ever transforms in this book* (seriously, what the hell is Megatron’s altmode why even give him a new body if you’re only going to show off half its functionality grarghrarghgnashgnash). And now we get this, a solid page of Roberts, via Megatron, going “What Transformers transform into isn’t important and if you DO care about that or question it that makes you a bigoted communist horrible person”.

If he was actually SHOWING Transformers, free from the reign of the Functionalists in The Old Society, taking on new altmodes and using them for what they wanted to do with their lives or even recreation or taking pleasure and enjoyment in them the way you claim they should be free to, that would be one thing. But Roberts isn’t particularly good at showing anything in this book, and instead what we get is guys standing around complaining that they have altmodes at all and that people expect them to transform.

I just genuinely wonder what his big issue with Transformation as a concept is, and how he can claim to be such a ‘fan’ of the franchise in the face of that issue.

This sounds a lot more like a "you" issue and less about Roberts. You have misinterpreted what is being said in the book so entirely that I have to assume your outlook has colored everything you just wrote. Monoformers, Cybertronians with altmodes that are useless, escaping a culture of control based on what you transform into, those are commentary on the world, he's saying that Transformers are not as different from you or I, that even those who seem not to fit still have value, that even robots who transform into other things are still people. This is socio-philosophical commentary on the very idea of robots who transform, they are transforming physically and it affects their outlook philosophically, this isn't knocking transformation at all, it's examining it from a deeper perspective than just a toy being fiddled with.

BTW, I also didn't say they were changing altmodes, I was saying they were free to change jobs, to change their lots in life. Your interpretation is somewhat opposite to what is being got-at, it's not that they can be free to do whatever they want if they just change their physical structure, it's that they can be free to do whatever they want IN SPITE OF their physical structure.

This book is all about transformation, it's about transformation of who one is, and about beings who can transform but also about being rounded characters who are more than that simple expression of "warriors who transform into things".

Dom wrote:Joking aside, have you considered that Roberts is writing comics, not TF? Maybe he was a fan of TF comics because he liked the comics, not because they had a bunch of characters that shared names with poorly made toys in the late 80s?

I think he's writing TF, he's just writing TF from the perspective of someone who expands upon all the bios and has elaborate play scenarios where the toys are characters beyond the fight. Who is Optimus Prime when he's not actively working, when he's not on the battlefield, when he's not strategizing, when he's just resting and recovering? What did Wheeljack talk to Ratchet about when they were just hanging out in the Ark not building and fixing things? I would say Roberts writes about the TF more than anyone else in that respect, he is writing about them as if they have lives beyond the fight, as if they are more than just robots pointing guns and turning into vehicles and weapons all the time.

Roberts probably does not hate transforming so much as he wants to write a comic that does not focus on transforming

I'm actively trying not to comment on all the water that's passed under the bridge in this thread, but yeah, you are on the money, he's defining his characters by more than just WHAT THEY CAN DO. These are Robots in Disguise, but what do they do when they are in a scenario where they don't need to disguise? That's what we have here, characters who are More than Meets the Eye, and yet Roberts actually still focuses on disguises and transformations, he just does so from a philosophical perspective instead of a physical one.

Prowl wrote:And he can't even illustrate it *properly*, per my repeated issue-taking with his inability to show instead of telling. Megatron's entire movement and uprising was predicated on him being forced into a laborer's role on account of his altmode, but we've never even SEEN Young Megatron's altmode. We never see ANY of the miners turning into, I guess, mining vehicles or constructions trucks or what-have-you, despite the repeated accusations that they were forced into those jobs because of those altmodes. So why don't we ever, you know, SEE them using those altmodes for those jobs, instead of working with pickaxes in robot modes?

The cassettes in earlier G1 fiction did manage to use their altmodes. They folded up for storage, they were spies that would play back secret recordings in that mode, they would use the compact nature of them to infiltrate places. The writers found creative ways to incorporate that big, defining element of the characters and the franchise. Roberts, on the other hand, seems resentful that he has to acknowledge that his characters even have altmodes.

This is a very "I want to see more toy-centric storytelling" argument, and honestly, I think that's the core of your complaint, you want more storytelling that just does what the toys do. Funny, you constantly complain for change in the brand, yet when we are given something new it's too much change for you, you want it to be like the old ways.

Anderson wrote:So when do we get to see Transformers in the book actually, you know, transform? Honestly, I'm not sure how seeing them switch modes when the situation calls for it is in any way dumbing down the writing.

First Aid transformed to get med supplies on the second page of the story. Kaon was in disguise the whole time and transformed to ambush Trailbreaker as a main story element. The reason it doesn't come up more often is because this storyline doesn't have them in situations that require it, the story is about the characters and who they are when they are; throwing transformations in there and making a big deal out of them would be akin to the constant transformation sequences of the 2000s cartoons, those were as dumbed-down as it got.

Shockwave wrote:As for Megatron, yeah, it is a little vexing as to why they need pickaxes when their alt modes probably are better suited to that function. That's something that should be shown. Especially if it's going to be a main plot point.

I think some fans are too literal on this, what is a big tank supposed to do when there's no call for defense? It has no purpose except to be big and tough and destroy things. So if one has those characteristics built into their bodies, they are forced into a similar job of a similar societal status.

BTW, I also didn't say they were changing altmodes, I was saying they were free to change jobs, to change their lots in life. Your interpretation is somewhat opposite to what is being got-at, it's not that they can be free to do whatever they want if they just change their physical structure, it's that they can be free to do whatever they want IN SPITE OF their physical structure.

Well, the rich could get new bodies (as shown in "Shadowplay"), which opens up a whole other can of worms.

I think he's writing TF, he's just writing TF from the perspective of someone who expands upon all the bios and has elaborate play scenarios where the toys are characters beyond the fight. Who is Optimus Prime when he's not actively working, when he's not on the battlefield, when he's not strategizing, when he's just resting and recovering? What did Wheeljack talk to Ratchet about when they were just hanging out in the Ark not building and fixing things? I would say Roberts writes about the TF more than anyone else in that respect, he is writing about them as if they have lives beyond the fight, as if they are more than just robots pointing guns and turning into vehicles and weapons all the time.

But, that can be done in any setting (new or established), and does not need to use "Transformers". Games Workshop has done that angle a few times, with varying results. ("What is the joy of life?" To die knowing that your work is done. "What is the terror of death?" Dying without having completed one's work. In that case, the characters are shown to lack "off duty" perspective.)

I think some fans are too literal on this, what is a big tank supposed to do when there's no call for defense? It has no purpose except to be big and tough and destroy things. So if one has those characteristics built into their bodies, they are forced into a similar job of a similar societal status.

This raises the question of how Cybertron's economy would work. What is it based on? Artificial money? Fungible resources (which artificial money is but one type)? Is it based on bartering? Even assuming that it was centrally planned (as seen in "Megatron: Origions" and "Chaos Theory"), what did it run on?

What was to stop a tank from leaving Cybertron and working as a sellsword elsewhere?

This is a very "I want to see more toy-centric storytelling" argument, and honestly, I think that's the core of your complaint, you want more storytelling that just does what the toys do.

This is consistent with other comments that Prowl has made.

I am not even wholly against using the toys as a foundation. The linear story of the old Marvel series, functionally an arms race, was bound to Hasbro's release schedule. Nebulans and shells were new technologies that added to and supplanted form change in much the same way that artillery and air cavalry complimented and supplanted infantry and small arms.

But, the Marvel series had more than its share of bad comics.

I would rather get good comics that are less "Transformersy" than bad comics that "get what TF is supposed to be about man...."

Dominic wrote:This raises the question of how Cybertron's economy would work. What is it based on? Artificial money? Fungible resources (which artificial money is but one type)? Is it based on bartering? Even assuming that it was centrally planned (as seen in "Megatron: Origions" and "Chaos Theory"), what did it run on?

It would seem they use a form of artificial money considering we know Drift bought the Lost Light for one billion Shanix, which is a currency that has been mentioned a few other times in the IDW universe.

Issue 36:
I got the anniversary variant cover. (Part of me wondered if the time-travel elements of the story were going to lead to the cross-franchise characters showing up. They do not.)

As has been stated elsewhere, this issue is most "the feels". Rodimus and co pursue Brainstorm back in time. They participate in a decisive battle, but do not catch Brainstorm. Some fans are speculating about the identity of Tarn, and this issue feeds that speculation. But, given that this is coming out as part of the "Days of Deception" banner-event, it might not be unreasonable to assume that all of the hints about Tarn are false leads. Similarly, one could speculate about Brainstorm's motives.

Roller's juice-box at the beginning was irksome. (I tend to agree with Prowl, in principle if not degree, that Roberts humanizes the TFs a little too much. And, this sort of thing plays in to that.)


Grade: C

From what I read, Guidi was doing the piece that eventually became the anniversary covers for an unrelated project that got axed.

Dominic wrote:Roller's juice-box at the beginning was irksome. (I tend to agree with Prowl, in principle if not degree, that Roberts humanizes the TFs a little too much. And, this sort of thing plays in to that.)

From what I understand, the juice-box was actually Alex Milne's idea back in issue 10. Roberts ended up liking the idea and decided to expand on it for this issue.

I didn't mind the juice box. In practice, it was on the same level as Kup's 'cigar' from AHM, which was something I loved (even moreso once we got the explanation for it). Just a cute visual tic.

My issue is less with the 'humanizing' of the TFs (they've pretty much always been portrayed as big metal people) and more with writers like Roberts willfully ignoring the 'Transformers' aspect of them, likening writing a TF story where they go out of their way not to transform to writing a story about humans where they made a point of never using their opposable thumbs. But hey, Roller has a nice use of his altmode in this issue, and it's even used in a key scene, with humorous effect (I love that he couldn't tell 'What was going on back there'). Some other guys got altmode action too, which was nice, it was actually integrated organically and effectively.

Overall, I liked this issue. It did a good job of being a self-contained episode of a bigger overarching plot.

So what Big Plot Twist is Roller going to turn up again as? I got money says he's actually Tarn.

The "Days of Deception" banner makes me think that the leads on Tarn are all false.

Roller is Tarn, too many little things leading that way, if there are over half a dozen elements all leading to red herrings, that would be an active ripoff.

Anyway, this is an interesting premise, although I hope it ends soon as they could take it too many steps easily. Chromedome's faith in Brainstorm is interesting but ultimately I can't imagine that working out. Megs' phone call to Orion Pax was interesting stuff, helps justify where Megs' head is at now and how it got there. Not sure if they'll "Doc Brown" Trailbreaker, it'd be nice but ultimately cheap.