TF Views

Shockwave wrote:I kind of got the impression that he was hoping no one would know.

That is a point... hadn't all the Decepticons evacuated by the time Thundercracker made his presence known to the Autobots? Skywarp probably came back to look for him.

Which arguable justifies Skywarp's actions even more.


Dom
-note Megatron winning was bad for everyone.

Shockwave wrote:I do see your point here, but what the rest of us are arguing is that it's a case of one because of the other. As you just said, Skywarp was mad enough to kill Thundercracker, but what we're arguing is that he was made enough and felt betrayed enough to kill Thundercracker at that moment and didn't care what the explanation was. It was a crime of passion plain and simple. Now when the ongoing series begins Thundy might get a chance to explain himself. I mean come on, when in transformers has anyone ever not been able to come back from a shot to the face? Y'know, just sayin.

Yeah, undoubtedly Thundercracker will return sooner or later. Still it bothers me that Skywarp's characterization doesn't seem to be very consistent here.

andersonh1 wrote:Skywarp didn't want to hear what Thundercracker had to say. He saw the whole thing, and had already made up his mind what he was going to do. Anything Thundercracker could have said at that point was irrelevant. Clearly it was a "heat of the moment" decision by Skywarp, made in anger at what he saw as a betrayal. The finer details of Decepticon philosophy just weren't important. Skywarp's anger was driving his actions, not rational thought.

Skywarp: "What did you just do?! You betrayed us! You betrayed - you're a seeker!"

So yeah... Skywarp does ask him the question despite seeing the whole thing, despite supposedly having already made up his mind what he was going to do and Skywarp does seem to hesitate for a few seconds before blasting Thundercracker. With that, coupled with previous arguments/discussions he's had, it just seems to me he could have held his temper in check a bit longer to hear what Thundercacker had to say, even if he was just going to blast him afterwords anyway.

And that's a realistic reaction

I don't see why I keep having to repeating myself on this point so I'm going to say it one last time.... I'm not saying it isn't realistic, I'm not saying Skywarp wasn't angry enough to kill Thundercracker. What I am saying is that this portrayal of Skywarp here, as far as I'm concerned, does not fit with what we've seen of him previously.

Dominic wrote:And, even so, the regret is contingent upon Skywarp reflecting on it.

Now that I think would be more in line with Skywarp. If they have him regretting his actions with Thundercracker, it would make more sense to me with his character with the whole situation.

Sparky Prime wrote: Skywarp: "What did you just do?! You betrayed us! You betrayed - you're a seeker!"

So yeah... Skywarp does ask him the question despite seeing the whole thing, despite supposedly having already made up his mind what he was going to do and Skywarp does seem to hesitate for a few seconds before blasting Thundercracker.

I read that as a rhetorical question more than an actual interrogative. He already knew what Thundercracker had done, so he wasn't seeking information or explanation. It's an accusation.

Yeah, that's definitely rhetorical. Unfortunately, the nature of written medium makes this difficult to discern--all we have is words on a page.

Shockwave wrote:I kind of got the impression that he was hoping no one would know.

That's possible--or it could be that Thundy knew they'd find out, and was prepared to accept the consequences for his actions. "They'll kill me for this, but it needs to be done, because these people can't be killed. It's Not Right. There's no honour in it."

andersonh1 wrote:I read that as a rhetorical question more than an actual interrogative. He already knew what Thundercracker had done, so he wasn't seeking information or explanation. It's an accusation.

No, I don't believe it was a completely rhetorical question. There is subtext in just asking the question. It implies Skywarp was indeed struggling to understand what and Thundercracker had just done and why, even if he didn't actually wait for the reply. And he made plenty of accusations with out the question, again suggesting Skywarp had a purpose in asking it in the first place.

Sparky Prime wrote:Yeah, undoubtedly Thundercracker will return sooner or later. Still it bothers me that Skywarp's characterization doesn't seem to be very consistent here.

What I am saying is that this portrayal of Skywarp here, as far as I'm concerned, does not fit with what we've seen of him previously.

I think his characterization has been consistent. I'll have to give you that last sentence though, in the whole 25 year history of TFs we have never seen Skywarp "Kill" Thundercracker for saving Autobots and humans. In fact, I'll see your Skywarp and raise you most of the characters in AHM as most of them have been characterized in ways that are completely different from what we've seen before. At least in that sense, Skywarp's Characterization has been consistent with the rest of AHM.

Sparky Prime wrote:

andersonh1 wrote:I read that as a rhetorical question more than an actual interrogative. He already knew what Thundercracker had done, so he wasn't seeking information or explanation. It's an accusation.

No, I don't believe it was a completely rhetorical question. There is subtext in just asking the question. It implies Skywarp was indeed struggling to understand what and Thundercracker had just done and why, even if he didn't actually wait for the reply. And he made plenty of accusations with out the question, again suggesting Skywarp had a purpose in asking it in the first place.

I think we're just going to have to disagree on this one. The "what have you done?" segment reads as an accusation to me, not a genuine request for information. I'll give you this: Skywarp clearly can't comprehend why Thundercracker could possibly have done what he did, but he doesn't really care why at that point.

Shockwave wrote:

Sparky Prime wrote:Yeah, undoubtedly Thundercracker will return sooner or later. Still it bothers me that Skywarp's characterization doesn't seem to be very consistent here.

What I am saying is that this portrayal of Skywarp here, as far as I'm concerned, does not fit with what we've seen of him previously.

I think his characterization has been consistent. I'll have to give you that last sentence though, in the whole 25 year history of TFs we have never seen Skywarp "Kill" Thundercracker for saving Autobots and humans. In fact, I'll see your Skywarp and raise you most of the characters in AHM as most of them have been characterized in ways that are completely different from what we've seen before. At least in that sense, Skywarp's Characterization has been consistent with the rest of AHM.

Are we seeing mischaracterization, or are we seeing some actual change and growth in these usually static Transformer characters? Grimlock got some character development in Maximum Dinobots. Perceptor got a massive change in AHM. Optimus Prime appears to be developing into the Prime we've known all these years at the end of AHM, after being more of a "big picture" type so far through IDW's run. As long as characters are recognizable to me in at least some of their traditional characteristics, I'm glad to see growth at last.

andersonh1 wrote:

Sparky Prime wrote:

andersonh1 wrote:I read that as a rhetorical question more than an actual interrogative. He already knew what Thundercracker had done, so he wasn't seeking information or explanation. It's an accusation.

No, I don't believe it was a completely rhetorical question. There is subtext in just asking the question. It implies Skywarp was indeed struggling to understand what and Thundercracker had just done and why, even if he didn't actually wait for the reply. And he made plenty of accusations with out the question, again suggesting Skywarp had a purpose in asking it in the first place.

I think we're just going to have to disagree on this one. The "what have you done?" segment reads as an accusation to me, not a genuine request for information. I'll give you this: Skywarp clearly can't comprehend why Thundercracker could possibly have done what he did, but he doesn't really care why at that point.

I think it was Skywarp thinking out loud trying to rationalize what he'd just seen and getting madder and madder at Thundercracker by the moment until he ultimately just ran out of words and shot him.