David Willis writes about BW

[andersonh1]

It isn't meant to be a new experience with the cartoon's characters.

Then *why* are those characters even *there*?

Why is it so offensive that the BW tv characters make cameos? Who cares if they're vital to the story or not? I still enjoy seeing them. And Megatron is certainly central to the plot, as has been explained several times.

[Onslaught Six]

Alright, let's put this all into perspective:

A) The show characters don't do anything important to the plot.

B) With the possible exception of Megatron, who is the impetus for the entire convoluted storyline.

C) If not for need to shoehorn the show characters in for cameos, we could have gotten a much better story in a different, more unique setting.

I mean, this thing could have taken place exclusively on Cybertron. If they wanted to do a bunch of stories with the show cast *that* badly, do a prequel! Sure, the club comics were doing the same thing, but they did it shitty. Doing a BW prequel comic actually *would* have given us the best of both worlds, as then there'd be ample reason for non-show characters to show up, we'd get to see more of the BW Cybertron and general universe, *and* you could actually centralize the plot around the show characters as well.

EDIT: It's like why Dom hates the Kevin Smith Green Arrow book. I love Kevin Smith's movies but Dom has a legit point to it. Smith brought Green Arrow back to life in the mainstream universe basically just for fanservice reasons. There's no reason for it and the plot was created *around* that event; not the other way around as it would logically call for.

Truthfully, I'm wondering how much of the series' plot was Furman and how much was editorial mandate. Someone (Hasbro or IDW staff) above Furman could have said "Write a series about BW, and you have to use the show characters," and Furman damn well did not want to use the show characters--so he wrote something that would get them in just enough to qualify as "using" them. (Or it could be the opposite--someone above Furman said, "Write a BW book using the non-show and Japanese characters," and Furman went, "But I wanted to write the show characters!" and wrote it around that. But that seems less likely.)

[andersonh1]

C) If not for need to shoehorn the show characters in for cameos, we could have gotten a much better story in a different, more unique setting.

Maybe, maybe not. And some of us were quite happy with the story and setting we got.

I mean, this thing could have taken place exclusively on Cybertron. If they wanted to do a bunch of stories with the show cast *that* badly, do a prequel! Sure, the club comics were doing the same thing, but they did it shitty. Doing a BW prequel comic actually *would* have given us the best of both worlds, as then there'd be ample reason for non-show characters to show up, we'd get to see more of the BW Cybertron and general universe, *and* you could actually centralize the plot around the show characters as well.

I could get behind a project like that. And I agree, the club comic wasn't very good.

EDIT: It's like why Dom hates the Kevin Smith Green Arrow book. I love Kevin Smith's movies but Dom has a legit point to it. Smith brought Green Arrow back to life in the mainstream universe basically just for fanservice reasons. There's no reason for it and the plot was created *around* that event; not the other way around as it would logically call for.

The reason for it was that killing off Green Arrow was just as stupid as turning Green Lantern into a psycho. Smith wanted to undo a stupid and pointless story that should never have been printed in the first place.

[Sparky Prime]

Alright, let's put this all into perspective:

A) The show characters don't do anything important to the plot.

B) With the possible exception of Megatron, who is the impetus for the entire convoluted storyline.

Cannot the same be said for the Beast Wars cartoon with the G1 characters aboard the Ark? With the exception of Prime and Megatron, they really don't do anything important. Heck, they aren't even awake. And yet, the story behind Beast Wars is centered around them while BW tells a new and unique story of their own.

The comic isn't all that different, using elements of the show to center around (namely the stasis pods and the Tripredacus Council wanting Megatron captured) while for the most part not involving the characters from the show in order to tell their own story.

C) If not for need to shoehorn the show characters in for cameos, we could have gotten a much better story in a different, more unique setting.

Maybe, maybe not. And some of us were quite happy with the story and setting we got.

Exactly. It's impossible to say if a story with out the cameos from the shows characters would have been any better or worst. Although, personally, I really liked "The Gathering" as it was.

If they wanted to do a bunch of stories with the show cast *that* badly, do a prequel!

Again, the point of the comic wasn't to do a bunch of stories with the show characters. It was to tell a new story with new characters, yet, was still connected to the show.

I have to say I like the idea of a prequel comic though. Assuming it is done better than the club comics...

[BWprowl]

Exactly. It's impossible to say if a story with out the cameos from the shows characters would have been any better or worst. Although, personally, I really liked "The Gathering" as it was.

Y'know, I actually get what you're saying here, and it boils the argument down to a couple base points that help resolve this cold war that starts up whenever we discuss this series. Basically:

A. I think 'The Gathering' had a sucky story, and I blame the shoehorned-in BW show setting and cast for causing said suckiness.
B. You think 'The Gathering' had an awesome story, and that the extra BW show cameos were clever window dressing that made it even better.

I can honestly respect that. You've resolved the argument with me, at least. So...this thread is now about Lost?

At least we can all agree that 'The Ascending' wasn't very good. Let's all bash on that together!

[Onslaught Six]

Alright, let's put this all into perspective:

A) The show characters don't do anything important to the plot.

B) With the possible exception of Megatron, who is the impetus for the entire convoluted storyline.

Cannot the same be said for the Beast Wars cartoon with the G1 characters aboard the Ark? With the exception of Prime and Megatron, they really don't do anything important. Heck, they aren't even awake. And yet, the story behind Beast Wars is centered around them while BW tells a new and unique story of their own.

Aha! No, it can't. Those elements didn't even show up until S2, a full two years into the series. The only reason they were on Earth at all to begin with was because, by the nature of the toyline, they had animal altmodes and needed to get them from 'somewhere.' And the fact that they even *are* on Earth is mostly left up in the air until S2's final episodes anyway.

Also, at the time BW was originally produced, G1 was the *only* other show. So calling back to it in such a way isn't really a big deal. By the time The Gathering had come out, however, we'd already seen at least two alternate G1s (Three if you count Worlds Collide!), seperate cartoon and comic ArmEnerTron universes, and RID, even by my loose definitions, still takes place entirely in another universe--plus we had a live-action movie with an entirely seperate continuity on the way. At the time The Gathering was published, alternate universes that don't rely on tying into existing stuff was 'the norm,' so it's just odd for BW to be excluded from it.

The comic isn't all that different, using elements of the show to center around (namely the stasis pods and the Tripredacus Council wanting Megatron captured) while for the most part not involving the characters from the show in order to tell their own story.

My complaint is basically that I didn't like that story anyway (Razorbeast is a starring character why?) and that we could've gotten a much better one if it weren't so centered on these setpieces.

Again, the point of the comic wasn't to do a bunch of stories with the show characters. It was to tell a new story with new characters, yet, was still connected to the show.

I have to say I like the idea of a prequel comic though. Assuming it is done better than the club comics...

The point of the comic was to make money on sordid BW fans who are starved for more material of their precious universe that they'll buy up anything. (Well, almost anything. Universe Cheetor is just that bad.)

So...this thread is now about Lost?

You hear they're doing another episode? Load of crock, that.

[138 Scourge]

Razorbeast is the starring character, according to the Wiki, because Furman liked the sound of his name. It is a pretty cool sounding name, so I can't blame him.

I still haven't seen even a minute of Lost.

[andersonh1]

Razorbeast is the starring character, according to the Wiki, because Furman liked the sound of his name. It is a pretty cool sounding name, so I can't blame him.

I still haven't seen even a minute of Lost.

Neither have I. And I liked Razorbeast. It was nice to see an obscure Transformer like him spotlighted and made the protagonist of the story.

[Dominic]

Truthfully, I'm wondering how much of the series' plot was Furman and how much was editorial mandate. Someone (Hasbro or IDW staff) above Furman could have said "Write a series about BW, and you have to use the show characters," and Furman damn well did not want to use the show characters--so he wrote something that would get them in just enough to qualify as "using" them. (Or it could be the opposite--someone above Furman said, "Write a BW book using the non-show and Japanese characters," and Furman went, "But I wanted to write the show characters!" and wrote it around that. But that seems less likely.)

You are probably giving Furman too much credit. I really doubt Hasbro forced much in this series. If anything, they would have foced the use of 10th Anniversary toy characters, which did not happen in any real way. Did TM Rattrap actually even show up in the comic?

I think Furman was collecting a paycheck for having no ideas.

The reason for it was that killing off Green Arrow was just as stupid as turning Green Lantern into a psycho. Smith wanted to undo a stupid and pointless story that should never have been printed in the first place.

Which kind of gets into it being a fan-fix story.

Why is it so offensive that the BW tv characters make cameos? Who cares if they're vital to the story or not? I still enjoy seeing them.

But, they did nothing useful at all. There are real people I do not care this much about. That fact that the story went out of its way to show the characters not doing anything of value was just irksome.

At the time The Gathering was published, alternate universes that don't rely on tying into existing stuff was 'the norm,' so it's just odd for BW to be excluded from it.

BW is special you see. BW is *perfect*. BW is pure and natural....and did not have any meaningful alternatives within the franchise. It was the first time a TF story did not have in-house competition. (Even G2 arguably did.) And, again, BW is pure and wonderful and so totally perfect.

THE RULES CANNOT APPLY TO PRECIOUS bEAST wARS!!!111!!!!!!!


Dom
-remembers the Furman backlash in 2006......

[Sparky Prime]

Aha! No, it can't. Those elements didn't even show up until S2, a full two years into the series. The only reason they were on Earth at all to begin with was because, by the nature of the toyline, they had animal altmodes and needed to get them from 'somewhere.' And the fact that they even *are* on Earth is mostly left up in the air until S2's final episodes anyway.

You've completely missed the point. It's not an issue of when those elements where introduced in the show, rather just the *correlation* that the G1 characters were there yet didn't really do anything in the show, while a *similar situation* was had in the comic where the characters from the show didn't really do anything.

Also, you've got several of your facts wrong here... The very first episode established that they had time traveled and that the intended destination was pre-historic Earth. They may have thought they ended up on the wrong planet due to the markers on the Voyager probe disk not matching, but still, the premise that became so prevalent in season 2 was there from the *very beginning of the show*. And it was the beginning of season 2 the Predacons realized they were in fact on Earth, not mostly the end of it. Remember in "Coming of the Fuzors" how Waspinator and Dinobot looked at the moon and recognized it as Earth's moon?

At the time The Gathering was published, alternate universes that don't rely on tying into existing stuff was 'the norm,' so it's just odd for BW to be excluded from it.

I'd point out "Animated" does have a few Beast Wars characters in it, making it somewhat the first TF show to re-imagine Beast Wars somewhat. But anyway, there is still plenty of material they could cover during the original Beast-era that I really don't see a need for it to be done in an alternate universe.

The point of the comic was to make money on sordid BW fans who are starved for more material of their precious universe that they'll buy up anything.

You can keep saying that but it wont make it true. The point was to tell new stories set in the Beast-era because the fans had been asking for it, pure and simple.