Transformers - ongoing series

[Shockwave]

What happened to Gears and Windcharger?

[andersonh1]

What happened to Gears and Windcharger?

Hot Rod indicates that they'd been captured and that no attempt had been made to rescue them.

-With all the talk about Prowl, I almost forgot to point out how unprincipled the other Autobots are. They mount a rescue for Prowl, but they do not seem to have made the same effort for Gears and Windcharger.

The Autobots abandon Sunstreaker at the end of Devastation when they have what Prime perceives as a bigger problem on Garrus-9. Hot Rod is the only one who stays behind, against orders, to keep looking for him. It's interesting that here, once again, it's Hot Rod who is thinking of the individuals, while Prime feels the bigger picture (guarding humanity while in hiding) means not making things worse by attacking Skywatch. Note that even though he finally allows Hot Rod to go on the rescue mission this time, he still forbids a direct attack, opting for a stealth rescue.

[Dominic]

In one issue, Costa has managed to make the Autobots less principled than the Decepticons.

He needed Prime to okay something stupid/unprincipled to make the story work. And, bammo, done.


The ongoing looks enough like a bad self-parody that I thinking this is on purpose.

Dom
-this will *not* keep me on comics when the various minis I am reading end.

[andersonh1]

In one issue, Costa has managed to make the Autobots less principled than the Decepticons.

He needed Prime to okay something stupid/unprincipled to make the story work. And, bammo, done.

So Autobots value the lives of others, and are willing to risk their own to protect them, and that's unprincipled? Come on. It's nothing of the sort. When the Autobots start slaughtering humans en masse, a la the Decepticons in AHM, you'll have moral equivalence between the two sides. You simply don't have it here.

The ongoing looks enough like a bad self-parody that I thinking this is on purpose.

I doubt Mike Costa is deliberately writing a bad comic. How likely is that?

[Dominic]

It is unprincipled because the Autobots are acting inconsistently. Gears and Windcharger are expendable, but Prowl must be saved....all because Costa needs the big fight scene at that point.

The Autobots are acting like capricious children. At least the Decepticons behave more consistently.

And,I submit "Countdown" and "Final Crisis" as evidence that bad comics can be done deliberately.


Dom
-seriously, "Countdown" had to have been a fix.

[andersonh1]

It is unprincipled because the Autobots are acting inconsistently. Gears and Windcharger are expendable, but Prowl must be saved....all because Costa needs the big fight scene at that point.

The Autobots are acting like capricious children. At least the Decepticons behave more consistently.

The blame has to be narrowed down to Prime, since it's his call whether or not a rescue mission is mounted. The Autobot unit on Earth is not a democracy, it's a military unit under Prime's command. It's ultimately his decision to make, no matter how the others feel. And that was my point in bringing up the end of Devastation and Prime's decision there. He's been known to put the big picture over the well-being of individuals before, or even over the well-being of an entire planet. Right or wrong, the buck stops with him. And as I've already said, so far his decision to remain on Earth doesn't make much sense to me. I think he's very much in the wrong to even be there. His judgment is certainly in question on that issue and others, including the selective rescue of captured Autobots.

Even if I agreed that Decepticons behave more consistently, it's not consistency itself that determines the right or wrong of their actions. When they slaughter thousands and steal resources from a planet, they may be acting consistently with past actions, but that doesn't make them morally superior to Autobots who aren't allowed by their commander to rescue a few comrades.

And,I submit "Countdown" and "Final Crisis" as evidence that bad comics can be done deliberately.

Dom
-seriously, "Countdown" had to have been a fix.

I haven't read either, so I'll take your word on that. That doesn't mean that Costa is deliberately writing a bad comic though.

[Sparky Prime]

-"Coda" shows Decepticons being captured/killed by Skywatch. That confirms the "they had to get the tech somehow" theory.

The issue isn't that Skywatch is taking technology/energon from the Transformers, it's the "brutalizing and killing" part. All indications in this issue are that Skywatch is simply capturing, holding and studying them, but not killing and brutalizing.

I haven't read either, so I'll take your word on that. That doesn't mean that Costa is deliberately writing a bad comic though.

I'd have to say Dom is bias against those stories actually. I doubt those stories were deliberately written to be bad stories either.

[BWprowl]

I'd have to say Dom is bias against those stories actually. I doubt those stories were deliberately written to be bad stories either.

I dunno, the last issue of 'Final Crisis' is a pretty special brand of bad that you don't get every day. I don't know if Morrison was doing it badly on purpose, or if he was just trying *so* hard to write something epic and amazing that he wound up failing on an equally spectacular level, but one thing is certain: That comic was a disaster.

[Dominic]

No, it was a GREAT DISASTER! (Sorry, could not resist.)

Joking aside, "Countdown" got appreciably worse in increments. And, the structure and tone mirrors "52" well enough that I am assuming it was intentional. (And, really, given the creative team on that book, it could have been as bad as it was if they *wanted* it to be.)

The issue isn't that Skywatch is taking technology/energon from the Transformers, it's the "brutalizing and killing" part. All indications in this issue are that Skywatch is simply capturing, holding and studying them, but not killing and brutalizing.

The brutalizing would have been done more by the Machination. But, as a species, Machination and Skywatch are very similar. But, Skywatch is definitely killing TFs, as evidenced by the Henkei Thrust's cameo. So, surrending to Skywatch, rather than Machination, is still a bad idea.

The blame has to be narrowed down to Prime, since it's his call whether or not a rescue mission is mounted. The Autobot unit on Earth is not a democracy, it's a military unit under Prime's command. It's ultimately his decision to make, no matter how the others feel. And that was my point in bringing up the end of Devastation and Prime's decision there. He's been known.......

I can amend my statement and say that Prime is a dingus. The Decepticons might act like bandits and kill things. But, Prime does what he wants when he feels like it. The Decepticons are tyrants. Prime is an autocratic child.

Dom
-so that is where the faction name came from.

[Sparky Prime]

The brutalizing would have been done more by the Machination. But, as a species, Machination and Skywatch are very similar. But, Skywatch is definitely killing TFs, as evidenced by the Henkei Thrust's cameo. So, surrending to Skywatch, rather than Machination, is still a bad idea.

Machination and Skywatch are two separate organizations though (despite what Continuum would have you believe). Just because Machination made it a habit of brutalizing their one Autobot subject, doesn't mean Skywatch is to the Transformers they capture. As for "Henkei Thrust", not owning the issue I cannot verify this, but nothing I see about the issue online actually says Skywatch kills that Thrust. But even if they do, you have to look at the context of the situation. That issue takes place shortly after the Decepticons left Earth, not 3 years later. The remaining Decepticons would still be extremely hostile and as such would require more force, possibly even lethal, to subdue them. If a Transformer were to freely surrender though, what reason would they have to use lethal force? Optimus Prime's reasoning is sound in this situation.