All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

[BWprowl]

...What're you, nuts? I've been guessing as to who the traitor was for 'months.' Sunstreaker's kind of an obvious one, but I got some mild hints that maybe, just maybe, it was Jazz.

Yeah, but your deductive powers don't count, because you didn't even figure out that Longarm was the traitor while watching 'Autoboot Camp'.

I was mostly mad that they cut the conversation short *right before* they explained what the hell that thing Kup's been smoking is.

[Dominic]

Speaking of, I'm still wondering what the hell Kup was alluding to back there. What's Jazz done that he doesn't want anyone to find out about?

I am sure that will be revealed. Jazz in an intelligence officer. His "bag of tricks", (as it was called in the old Marvel source-books), likely includes some *really* dirty ones. And, while IDW is a new continuity, there is precedent for Jazz being a bit on the nasty side. In the old G1 comic, Jazz was not above kidnapping and extortion.

And yet... I'm not appeased. Like Dom, I was expecting Sunstreaker to be the traitor given the hints dropped in previous issues. The reason for his betrayal I must admit I am a bit surprised by, however, I also find it hard to believe. Ok, he's pissed because some humans forced him into becoming a Headmaster. But really, kill them all as punishment? That's a bit extreme for Sunstreaker. I can see him wanting revenge, but genocide? Especially having been bonded to Hunter, he should realize not all humans are bad.

I was not "expecting Sunstreaker to be the traitor". He was on my short-list. Part of me assumed his unwillingness to talk about Earth was due to what had happened during "Escalation". Of course, considering what happened, Sunstreaker's actions make perfect sense.

Every iteration of G1 presents Sunstreaker as one of the nastier Autobots. He is a sociopath. Remember the old Dreamwave sourcebooks? That entry quotes Ratchet as saying he is *afraid* of Sunstreaker, and not because of the "hur, hur, hur, Sunstreaker am teh gehyz rapist". Hell, even not being a socio-path, one should be able to understand what Sunstreaker did. Hell, I'd be pissed off, and would likely want a pogrom. (Really, does genocide even matter when the target species is so primitive relative to the one calling for the genocide?)

And, the terms of the deal were pretty much "Megatron dies, Starscream and co get Earth, and the Autobots leave, and the humans get their's". (Granted, making a deal with Starscream was a bone-headed move, but hey....) Honestly, even if an Autobot would not *make* that deal, most of them would probably take the ride if Starscream honored the terms of the deal.


I am wondering if Drift is a traitor, or has simply seen many dubious things over the course of his life.

Dom

[Onslaught Six]

Speaking of, I'm still wondering what the hell Kup was alluding to back there. What's Jazz done that he doesn't want anyone to find out about?

I am sure that will be revealed. Jazz in an intelligence officer. His "bag of tricks", (as it was called in the old Marvel source-books), likely includes some *really* dirty ones. And, while IDW is a new continuity, there is precedent for Jazz being a bit on the nasty side. In the old G1 comic, Jazz was not above kidnapping and extortion.

I'm sure it will be too, but it's fun waiting.

(Really, does genocide even matter when the target species is so primitive relative to the one calling for the genocide?)

Aw Jeez, not this shit again!

I am wondering if Drift is a traitor, or has simply seen many dubious things over the course of his life.

I'm waiting to see him either be a traitor, or he's the ZOMG BADASS NEW CHARACTER and will ruin everything.

Hopefully he is neither.

[Sparky Prime]

I was not "expecting Sunstreaker to be the traitor". He was on my short-list.

Close enough.

Every iteration of G1 presents Sunstreaker as one of the nastier Autobots. He is a sociopath. Remember the old Dreamwave sourcebooks? That entry quotes Ratchet as saying he is *afraid* of Sunstreaker, and not because of the "hur, hur, hur, Sunstreaker am teh gehyz rapist". Hell, even not being a socio-path, one should be able to understand what Sunstreaker did. Hell, I'd be pissed off, and would likely want a pogrom. (Really, does genocide even matter when the target species is so primitive relative to the one calling for the genocide?)

I still say it's excessive, even for Sunstreaker. Sociopath or not, he is still an Autobot for a reason. Not to mention it was specifically Scorponok and the company Machination that turned him into a Headmaster. Why target all the humans? And regardless of how "primitive" the species, it's still genocide to wipe them all out.

And, the terms of the deal were pretty much "Megatron dies, Starscream and co get Earth, and the Autobots leave, and the humans get their's". (Granted, making a deal with Starscream was a bone-headed move, but hey....) Honestly, even if an Autobot would not *make* that deal, most of them would probably take the ride if Starscream honored the terms of the deal.

That would be a pretty big IF. Sunstreaker should have known better than to trust Starscream.

[BWprowl]

I still say it's excessive, even for Sunstreaker. Sociopath or not, he is still an Autobot for a reason. Not to mention it was specifically Scorponok and the company Machination that turned him into a Headmaster. Why target all the humans? And regardless of how "primitive" the species, it's still genocide to wipe them all out.

I had an English teacher my freshman year in high school. As a child, he had had a terrifying run-in on his bike with a neighborhood poodle. To this day, he maintains a strong hatred towards to those dogs. He will not associate with them, he hates looking at pictures of them, he doesn't even like to talk about poodles unless it's in the context of horrible things that could possibly be done to them. Never mind that this was ONE dog that traumatized him; that single event shaped his entire view of the creatures.

It sounds silly, yes, but it makes a point about how people (or, er, robots) can be shaped by their comparitively small-scale interation with a species. And Dom's right about the disparity between humans and Transformers. It wouldn't be unreasonable for a human who was left physically and mentally scarred by, say, ants to have no problem with every ant on the planet being wiped out. Add that to the fact that Sunstreaker didn't have the highest opinion of humans from the start, and it's not that hard to believe his actions.

Frankly, if you want to talk about why Sunstreaker was an Autobot, I'd say it was because he thought he was better than the Decepticons.

That would be a pretty big IF. Sunstreaker should have known better than to trust Starscream.

I dunno. I'd think it's pretty common knowledge among the Autobots that Starscream's a traitor looking to unseat Megatron, so that 'deal' would actually seem more believable coming from him than from anyone else. Plus, let's recall that Sunstreaker's head may not have been exactly all there (figuratively and literally) at the time.

I am sure that will be revealed. Jazz in an intelligence officer. His "bag of tricks", (as it was called in the old Marvel source-books), likely includes some *really* dirty ones. And, while IDW is a new continuity, there is precedent for Jazz being a bit on the nasty side. In the old G1 comic, Jazz was not above kidnapping and extortion.

So...Jazz could be the TF version of Jack Bauer?

I FULLY ENDORSE THIS!!

[Sparky Prime]

Add that to the fact that Sunstreaker didn't have the highest opinion of humans from the start, and it's not that hard to believe his actions.

I disagree. Granted, Sunsteaker wasn't too fond of humans to begin with, but he was also helped to be restored to normal by Hunter, a human. Despite Sunstreaker's attitude, I'd think that fact would help quell his rage toward all humans a bit.

It wouldn't be unreasonable for a human who was left physically and mentally scarred by, say, ants to have no problem with every ant on the planet being wiped out.

See, I just don't get that. If you got attacked by ants in say... Alabama, why would you want to wipe out the ones in Africa (along with all the rest on the planet)? They aren't the ones that attacked you. Even with your example with your teacher, he didn't hate ALL dogs did he? Just the poodles?

Frankly, if you want to talk about why Sunstreaker was an Autobot, I'd say it was because he thought he was better than the Decepticons.

Better how? I mean, the Autobot's stand for certain morals, so Sunstreaker must at least in part believe in those morals be an Autobot rather than a Decepticon.

I dunno. I'd think it's pretty common knowledge among the Autobots that Starscream's a traitor looking to unseat Megatron, so that 'deal' would actually seem more believable coming from him than from anyone else. Plus, let's recall that Sunstreaker's head may not have been exactly all there (figuratively and literally) at the time.

Despite Sunstreaker's state of mind, he would know no Decepticon would trust him or could be trusted. Especially Starscream. I agree, Starscream would be the most logical choice for such a proposition, but he'd be all the more especially dangerous.

[Dominic]

Close enough.

I just do not want it to seem like I was saying, "I knew it from the beginning." I am not too suprised that Sunny was the traitor, but I did not *expect* it.

That would be a pretty big IF. Sunstreaker should have known better than to trust Starscream.

Well, he *should* have. That is true. Of course, given his state of mind, the mistake is understandable.

So...Jazz could be the TF version of Jack Bauer?

Please, no. I despise "24", possibly more than any other show on TV.

Frankly, if you want to talk about why Sunstreaker was an Autobot, I'd say it was because he thought he was better than the Decepticons.

It might also be a question of "the Autobots were there". Sunstreaker may simply have been living in an area that "went Autobot" when the conflict began. How many people really *choose* what they like and what party/faction/regime they support, and how many just decide to go with what it easiest? There is nothing particularly wrong with that. But, how many people actively *choose* on things like this. As TF is soft sci-fi, the mental process for a Cybertronian would likely be the same. (Of course, soft sci-fi still plays up differences between species, so Sunstreaker hating humans still works.)

I had an English teacher my freshman year in high school. As a child, he had had a terrifying run-in on his bike with a neighborhood poodle. To this day, he maintains a strong hatred towards to those dogs. He will not associate with them, he hates looking at pictures of them, he doesn't even like to talk about poodles unless it's in the context of horrible things that could possibly be done to them. Never mind that this was ONE dog that traumatized him; that single event shaped his entire view of the creatures.

Cue the nasty remark about English majors lacking testicular fortitude! (Really, an English teacher who is afraid of dogs-poodles no less. Talk about living down to stereotypes.)

I know a guy who is craven about *all* dogs. (I swear, he must have been molested by a guy in a McGruff costume or something.) The real kicker is that he expects his childish fears to be given serious consideration by others. Once, I was saying hello to a neighbor's pitbull. The dog was in a fenced yard. He flinched when my hand went over the fence. He spent a few minute cringing and flinching, (despite not being near the dog), while I scratched her ears and she stupidly wagged her tail. When the dog realized he was afraid, she started barking at him. It was truly hilarious to watch him jump every time she barked.

See, I just don't get that. If you got attacked by ants in say... Alabama, why would you want to wipe out the ones in Africa (along with all the rest on the planet)? They aren't the ones that attacked you. Even with your example with your teacher, he didn't hate ALL dogs did he? Just the poodles?

And just hating poodles is okay? (I rather like the breed myself, as they are both non-allergenic and intelligent.)

Prowl is not saying that *he* would set up a genocide. Nor am I. But, the idea of somebody like Sunstreaker doing so makes sense. Sunstreaker is a sociopath to begin with, meaning he is not going to see others, (human or transformer), as truly worthwhile. He dislikes humans. Then, he is essentially raped by humans.

Does this make Sunstreaker a nice guy? No. Does it make him heroic or admirable? No. (At the very least, he sold his team out for the sake of a tantrum.) But, his reaction makes sense.

Hell, I would not go as far as genocide, but I would probably pitch a similarly violent tantrum if I were attacked to the degree Sunstreaker was. Would I kill an entire species? No. (Of course, as my attacker would realistically be human, killing the species would be really unappealling for obvious reason.) But, I would not be above harming their relatives. (And, yes, I would go to jail. But, would I necessarily care?)

Sunsteaker wasn't too fond of humans to begin with, but he was also helped to be restored to normal by Hunter, a human.

I tend to think it was Ratchet that did all the real work on restoring Sunny. At the very least, Ratchet did the visible work.


Dom
-wants a "Robot Heroes" Sunstreaker now.

[BWprowl]

AHM #9 came out today. Ye Gods, what happened to the art? Okay, the Autobots-on-Cybertron parts all still look fine, but what the hell is going on with the Earth portions? It feels like it was scripted for Guidi, but he got called away at the last minute and they had to get a fill-in in even less time. The result? HUGE disconnect between the story and the (terrible) art in the Earth portions. The bit with Soundwave and Rumble could've been powerful and epic and important, but it comes out flat, both literally and figuratively. Blah. At least the Cybertron portions are still fine. We get some vague backstory with Drift (seems he used to be a Decepticon or something), and Sideswipe gets a good page of monologue. The bit of follow-up with Mirage and Ironhide is great too. I'd be tempted to mod the insignia on my ClaMirage if he looked anything like comic version. Only big problem in these segments is Prime's return. I hope to GOD they explain just how the hell he went from "We might lose him" to "Sparkling new!" in only a few pages of angst. Really, this would be as good an issue as any, but the art in the Earth portions, and the way they drag down the story there really hurts the whole thing. I seriously hope they redraw those pages entirely for the trade.

Damn, JUST when it was getting good too...

[Dominic]

All Hail Megatron #9:

Like previous issues, there a number of good moments that work both thematically and on their own. Most of the plot-threads seem like they are heading for a resolution of some kind.

Truth be told, I am a little wary of how this will end. Optimus Prime's return effectively ends the character/organizational-study of the Autobots. And, there is a definite "invincible action hero" vibe from Spike that could reduce this comic to being filler.

The end of this book also raises intriguing questions about IDW's plans for the franchise. The Decepticons have effectively cripped the US. Even if the Europeans/Eurasians do not bomb the US the sheer amount of visible destruction already caused would cause huge changes. I doubt IDW, (a comic publsher, not a think-tank) has any/many qualified futurists on staff. But, I do hope they attempt to address some of the inevitable changes to the board, rather than simply returning "Transformers" to the same kind of artificial status-quo commonly seen in Marvel or DC.

As a franchise, "Transformers" has rarely had the opportunity to address these sorts of questions. The cartoon did a better than average, (and far better than one might expect), job of it in the 80s, especially with the jump to season 3. There were touches in the US and UK comics, showing humans reacting to Transformers. But, stories that involved large scale destruction, of the type shown in "All Hail Megatron", tend to be followed the the end of a franchise.

Marvel's G2 series involved Earth getting blitzed, but the series ended when the last battle did. Staggering amounts of destruction were mentioned, but the ramifications were never shown. Dreamwave's handling of the series was truncated shortly after some hints of Autobots and humans working together were brought up. (And, little enough of that series was set on Earth to be sure how much of the damage from earlier battles "stuck".) "Energon" was cancelled during an arc that clearly showed humanity and Cybertronians working together. (The cancellation actually hit...right in the middle of a Decepticon blitz of Earth.)

The AEC era of cartoons were marred by contextual problems, and exploration of questions similar to those raised in AHM was hindered.

As good a read as "All Hail Megatron" has been, it might be more interesting to observe what IDW does as a follow-up.

Grade: A/B Worth reading for the content, and the questions it raises.



I noticed the art, but it did not bug me as much as it did Prowl. I am assuming elapsed time as far as Prime's return goes. And, obviously, the repair where successful.

Dom

[Sparky Prime]

Yet another let down in this tedious series. Artwork of this issue was cartoonish at best. Far from the dark work previously seen. The scene between Soundwave and Rumble especially, as BWprowl pointed out, could have been better if not for this art style. Optimus returns, albeit a lackluster return. We go from "he's dieing" to "just like new". Considering Ratchet said he might not survive, this repair was way too sudden and vague on the details. And why couldn't Perceptor help on that exactly?