We've got Hall of Fame voting going on up there

[Dominic]

Maybe I am being a bit harsh on Furman. He does have a large body of work. And, as much of a huckster as he was in the last decade, I have not heard a single account of him being a raging braggart (like other even less talented guys in the business). Honestly, if not for "Regeneration 1", (and the accompanying fan buzz), I would likely be less annoyed by this.

(Objectively, my Furman autographed copy of "Death's Head" #1 is still one of my more cherished comics.)

Abnett's work in Transformers. As such, he has 0 "star power" with me and, based solely on his TF work, he would be on my ignore list (if I had such a list).

For better than 10 years, Abnett has never had more than one foot in comics, TF or otherwise. He has started multiple in-house franchises for GW, and had at least 1 novel on the NYTimes Best Seller list. Having his name anywhere on a TF project is good for the franchise, even if the poduct itself sucks.

His work on IDW's Beast Wars is still the biggest pile of shit ever.

Not really. And, that is part of the problem.

Dammit, I read "Countdown", and several of its tie-ins. That was a much worse, and steamier, pile of shit. Furman's BW work is bad. But, after suffering through it, I do not even have bragging rights dammit. I have a pile of ineptly produced comics. (I can stand by the art in both series. But, the sourcebook is atrocious on more than one level. And, the editing sucks all around.) "Sabertooth: Death Hunt" is so bad that it is aweome, and wholly emblamatic of the moment it came out. "Countdown" and the tie-ins are so bad that I am almost completely sure they were intended as performance art about bad comics. And, I can say that I read them, which kind of makes me a tragic hero in some circles.

Furman's BW work is bad, but is not so bad as to have its own "craptastic gravitas". And, in a way, that just makes it even harder to read.

It should be 1 vote per IP, multiple browsers will give an OK sign but server-side they weed out the multiple votes from the same IP, that's how they run the SW polls they do.

For the record, I am barely motivated to move my fat ass from my desk. I might sneak an extra vote in today when I wrap up a testing session later.

Objectively though, IP counting would be a good idea. So, hush up about it.

I wonder if Dom would feel better about Pat Lee being inducted to the Hall of Fame than Furman.

Well, when he showed up for the ceremony, it would give the courts a chance to serve papers on him. And, guys like Raiz, Figueroa, Guidi and the rest could have a much needed "conversation" with him.

I think we can all support that, right?


Dom
-pulling for Wheeljack.

[Mako Crab]

Maybe I am being a bit harsh on Furman. He does have a large body of work. And, as much of a huckster as he was in the last decade, I have not heard a single account of him being a raging braggart (like other even less talented guys in the business). Honestly, if not for "Regeneration 1", (and the accompanying fan buzz), I would likely be less annoyed by this.

Now you're seeing reason again. But you shouldn't let the fandom dictate what you like and dislike. Seriously, if I allowed the fandom's overzealous reaction to any little thing affect what I like, I'd start by hating Starscream, because of his legion of fangirls.

Not really. And, that is part of the problem.

Dammit, I read "Countdown", and several of its tie-ins. That was a much worse, and steamier, pile of shit. Furman's BW work is bad. But, after suffering through it, I do not even have bragging rights dammit. I have a pile of ineptly produced comics. (I can stand by the art in both series. But, the sourcebook is atrocious on more than one level. And, the editing sucks all around.) "Sabertooth: Death Hunt" is so bad that it is aweome, and wholly emblamatic of the moment it came out. "Countdown" and the tie-ins are so bad that I am almost completely sure they were intended as performance art about bad comics. And, I can say that I read them, which kind of makes me a tragic hero in some circles.

Furman's BW work is bad, but is not so bad as to have its own "craptastic gravitas". And, in a way, that just makes it even harder to read.

My fault. I should've specified. I meant to say that, of Simon Furman's own body of Transformers work, I personally find his Beast Wars stuff to be the worst. Not even comparing him to other writers, because I know there's plenty worse out there than Furman's BW stuff. But just comparing Furman's BW stuff to his other TF stuff- man, he really, really took a buffalo-sized dump all over the whole thing.

[Onslaught Six]

I can stand by the art in both series. But, the sourcebook is atrocious on more than one level. And, the editing sucks all around.

I will debate this until the end of time; the art in both BW books sucked dick.

Just look at how terrible Polar Claw looks here, the fur looks plain awful. What's up with his thighs?!
http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/3/32/BWThe ... pittor.jpg

Or how about Torca, and his ugly, floppy skin? He looks like a fried chicken.
http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/e/e6/BWprofile_Torca.jpg

[Sparky Prime]

I will debate this until the end of time; the art in both BW books sucked dick.

What are you talking about? The art in The Gathering was beautiful. The Ascending, I would have to say looked a little rushed but it still looks pretty decent. Some of the work in the Sourcebook is abysmal.

Just look at how terrible Polar Claw looks here, the fur looks plain awful. What's up with his thighs?!

What? The fur looks like fur. And what about his thighs? They transform into his polar bear legs.

Or how about Torca, and his ugly, floppy skin? He looks like a fried chicken.

He's a whale/elephant fuzor... he's supposed to have ugly floppy skin. I don't see how it looks like fried chicken though.

[Onslaught Six]

Except for the bit where Torca's toy isn't sculpted like that at all. The way Torca is drawn makes him look like a lumpy piece of clay. The toy has musculature and definition.

Same with Polar Claw, who is just drawn like a regular Transformer with not-really-all-that-much-like-fur "furry" bits drawn on him. Why, exactly, are there all those bad musculature lines on his thighs that don't correspond at all with how muscles work on humans 'or polar bears?' And why are his claws just sort of hanging there instead of looking like the toy? Nevermind how his chest nonsensically curves inward for no reason, the fuck is with that? Polar Claw's chest is rigid, staunch and tall.

This is already so much better and I spent maybe two minutes in Photoshop doing it:

[JediTricks]

I wonder if Dom would feel better about Pat Lee being inducted to the Hall of Fame than Furman.

Wow, that'd be blasphemy. And our only reaction to it could be... you know.

It should be 1 vote per IP, multiple browsers will give an OK sign but server-side they weed out the multiple votes from the same IP, that's how they run the SW polls they do.

For the record, I am barely motivated to move my fat ass from my desk. I might sneak an extra vote in today when I wrap up a testing session later.

Objectively though, IP counting would be a good idea. So, hush up about it.

It's been a DECADE since we first discussed it with Hasbro's team, so yeah, too late.

I will debate this until the end of time; the art in both BW books sucked dick.

Just look at how terrible Polar Claw looks here, the fur looks plain awful. What's up with his thighs?!
http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/3/32/BWThe ... pittor.jpg

Or how about Torca, and his ugly, floppy skin? He looks like a fried chicken.
http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/e/e6/BWprofile_Torca.jpg

Not seeing it with Polar Claw, the fur looks fine to me if maybe fur-coat-y. They may be a tad muscley, but it's comic art, that happens. Spittor was drawn like shit there, but Spittor sucks so I don't care.

Torca art there does look really odd, he's supposed to have floppy weird skin though because he's an elephant/whale-bot and that's the elephant skin. But it is quite odd for that even.

Except for the bit where Torca's toy isn't sculpted like that at all. The way Torca is drawn makes him look like a lumpy piece of clay. The toy has musculature and definition.

Torca is sculpted to have loose elephant skin, that's what the lines all over are denoting, and the bagginess around the sculpted joints like the knees. It's most pronounced at the tusks, but it's there on the rest of the gold "skin" plastic, it's just not well-realized because it's a mass-produced toy.

Same with Polar Claw, who is just drawn like a regular Transformer with not-really-all-that-much-like-fur "furry" bits drawn on him.

The art's style corresponds exactly with the toy, everything that's mechanical in that art is mechanical on the toy, and everything furry is furry on the toy.

Why, exactly, are there all those bad musculature lines on his thighs that don't correspond at all with how muscles work on humans 'or polar bears?'

Artistic license? It's a comic book, he's drawn like a big powerful comic book character. It's not meant to be an anatomy lesson.

[BWprowl]

I think one thing that needs to be remembered is that Six *really* likes Polar Claw, and while Figueroa's art here may be his own valid artistic interpretation of the character, the deviations from Six's likely more toy-based mind's-eye version of Polar Claw really hurt it in his opinion. Kinda, I think, the same way I get uptight about people who draw Jazz with door-wings. Or toys of Jazz that force him to have door-wings.

[Sparky Prime]

Except for the bit where Torca's toy isn't sculpted like that at all. The way Torca is drawn makes him look like a lumpy piece of clay. The toy has musculature and definition.

The art still makes him look muscular and defined, but it also better conveys that an animal like that wouldn't be so ridged as the plastic toy does. An elephant is lumpy, and that should be reflected.

Same with Polar Claw, who is just drawn like a regular Transformer with not-really-all-that-much-like-fur "furry" bits drawn on him. Why, exactly, are there all those bad musculature lines on his thighs that don't correspond at all with how muscles work on humans 'or polar bears?' And why are his claws just sort of hanging there instead of looking like the toy? Nevermind how his chest nonsensically curves inward for no reason, the fuck is with that? Polar Claw's chest is rigid, staunch and tall.

I still don't see how you can say it doesn't look like fur, or that it looks like it's just drawn onto a regular Transformer. It looks well integrated to me. Why would the musculature correspond with a human? That's not what he is. I believe what Figueroa was going for was to reflect that it is both his thigh in robot mode as well as his whole leg in beast mode, as such the musculature for both is present while he's in robot mode. I never liked the way his claws looked on the toy personally, given the limitations the toy has to make the transformation work. The art gives more depth to it. And his chest isn't nonsensically curving inward, he's leaning over Spittor. Again, the toy being a chunk of plastic has limitations, but artwork allows for articulation and movement beyond what the toy has.

This is already so much better and I spent maybe two minutes in Photoshop doing it:

I still prefer Figueroa's version.

[Shockwave]

It's funny, I saw O6's edit before I saw the other one and thought it was the original and thought "well that doesn't look too bad". Then I clicked the link in O6's previous post and thought "Oh wow, what's that thing there? That wasn't in the other pic! And what's going on with that over there?" Then I read the part where O6 mentioned that he had photoshopped the other image and... well I guess that puts me in the O6 camp since I thought his edit was better. And I totally see the chicken.

Shockwave
-Does not like wingless Jazz since he had wings before he didn't have wings.

[BWprowl]

-Does not like wingless Jazz since he had wings before he didn't have wings.

Not necessarily. The toy had the doors, but they could easily be tucked back to not be visible in robot mode, they were basically just kibble that you could do whatever you wanted with. And as we established WAY back when this first came up, Jazz when he first appeared in both the comics and cartoon didn't have door-wings.