TF Views

Seriously, comic books are soap operas. Back from the dead! Evil twins!! Unrequited romance!! Yeah, it's soap opera.

Shockwave
-Not that TF is much better.

Well, they DO have something in common! Namely, the problem I mentioned; open narrative. Open narrative + Capitalism = High profits, low quality!

I'm sure there's SOME long-running comic out there that's maintained a semblance of cohesion and continuity, but you better believe it's rare. I'm convinced the US comics industry doesn't even use the word "retcon". They don't recgonise it. It's purely a fan-ism.

I thought that was an industry term. Is it just the fandoms? I've heard it used pretty regularly so I just thought it was standard. It should be given how often in happens (I'm looking at YOU, DC!).

Shockwave wrote:It should be given how often in happens (I'm looking at YOU, DC!).

Why are you singling out DC? Pretty much any comic is subject to retcons, especially the longer they run, regardless of the company. Heck, look at how Marvel has handled Spidey's deal with the devil to retcon his marriage, and subsequent retcons that try to explain the results of his deal with the devil.

andersonh1 wrote:That explains where I got the children idea then.

Well as you'd mentioned, there was also a story that took place shortly after CoIE about the Guardians and Zamarons withdrawing from the universe to another dimension in order to have children. Obviously both groups eventually returned to the universe, but to my knowledge, no children between the Guardians and Zamarons have ever appeared or been referenced. It seems that plot has been forgotten.

True, most comic companies have done it (although so far, IDW's TF series doesn't seem to retcon itself but I'm in the process of rereading the whole thing so if it comes up, I'll post it in my reviews). I guess it just seems like every year when DC has their "major event" it's purpose is to retcon the one before it. I may be exaggerating and it's probably more than a little unfair to DC (especially as I haven't really read much of their stuff), but that's the impression I've gotten from many of the reviews around here. Quite often I hear "this character's back to this effectively retconning that".

Y'know, I wonder if it's just a problem with certain characters having been around for so long that there's no longer anything new that can be done with them. Maybe all of the possible stories have been told. I mean, look at Superman. Personally, I would hate to try to write for Superman. I mean what could you possibly do with him that hasn't already been done?

Shockwave wrote:I would hate to try to write for Superman. I mean what could you possibly do with him that hasn't already been done?

Kill him.

Forever.

See, that's kind of my point. I mean, it's not even like he has any "real world" problems that you could write. I actually think it would be more interesting to write a Clark Kent story where his "life" falls apart and he has problems that his Superman powers can't help him with.

Shockwave wrote:See, that's kind of my point. I mean, it's not even like he has any "real world" problems that you could write. I actually think it would be more interesting to write a Clark Kent story where his "life" falls apart and he has problems that his Superman powers can't help him with.

Fuck no. Nobody wants to see crying Superman ever again. Now, a "Clark Kent, Investigative Journalist" story, that I could get behind. Even if there's no Superman shown in it, just sort of implied. But any story in which Clark's saying "All my powers...and I can't make my rent payments!" That would...be fairly topical, actually, given the state of print journalism these days. But still, it's pretty much impossible to sympathize. Oh, no, you can't make the rent on your crappy Metropolis apartment? Fly the hell down to your palatial Antarctic estate, then. Jerk.

Superman just needs to be in the hands of decent writers and damn good artists to make him work. Look, tell Grant Morrison that there's nothing interesting to be done with Superman, just f'rinstance.

Shockwave wrote: I guess it just seems like every year when DC has their "major event" it's purpose is to retcon the one before it. I may be exaggerating and it's probably more than a little unfair to DC (especially as I haven't really read much of their stuff), but that's the impression I've gotten from many of the reviews around here. Quite often I hear "this character's back to this effectively retconning that".

Yeah, I can only think of two events that retconned much of anything. Crisis on Infinite Earths pretty much rebooted everything, but that was the point. Streamline the huge histories of these characters, provide jumping-on point. Thanks to a couple gaffes here and there, most of which seem to involve Hawkman, it pretty much worked out. Then you've got Infinite Crisis, in which Superboy-Prime punched a cosmic wall and...um, changed a bunch of things with his punch. Look, I don't read DC these days, so I don't have to even pretend to defend that one.

DC doesn't retcon stuff left and right as such...though they will do a new year one or secret origin kind of thing every so often to remake a character's origin, I don't know if they're necessarily tied to an event. They do have a nasty habit of throwing out "All-New!" versions of their characters and then making a big deal of the original's return, but unless they say the newer version of the character never existed, that ain't a retcon.

Pretty much any comic is subject to retcons, especially the longer they run, regardless of the company.

More to the point, (as much as I am not a fan of DC), they handle retcons much more cleanly than Marvel. Hell, they practically have their own brand for it, "Crisis".

Well as you'd mentioned, there was also a story that took place shortly after CoIE about the Guardians and Zamarons withdrawing from the universe to another dimension in order to have children. Obviously both groups eventually returned to the universe, but to my knowledge, no children between the Guardians and Zamarons have ever appeared or been referenced. It seems that plot has been forgotten.

Was this "Millenium" and the New Guardians? I kind of recall this.....

True, most comic companies have done it (although so far, IDW's TF series doesn't seem to retcon itself but I'm in the process of rereading the whole thing so if it comes up, I'll post it in my reviews).

Ha! As much as I like Costa's run, it is calling back to things like humans being able to hurt/kill Cybertronians and such. Megatron's current plan seems to be right out of the (discarded) 6 stage protocols.

Personally, I would hate to try to write for Superman. I mean what could you possibly do with him that hasn't already been done?

"Red Son" was written in the 90s, ~60 after Superman's first appearance.

But any story in which Clark's saying "All my powers...and I can't make my rent payments!" That would...be fairly topical, actually, given the state of print journalism these days.

"Under a Yellow Sun" touched on a variant of this idea.

Of course, the thing that ties "Under a Yellow Sun" and "Red Son" (along with a few others) together is that they are idea based. "Superman doin' stuff" stories will get old faster than that type of story in most any other franchise.

but unless they say the newer version of the character never existed, that ain't a retcon.

Yeah, but it is a sloppy reboot. Wow, the yellow flaw is back. Speedy is on drugs again.....


Dom
-and this is why I focus more on writers than characters.

Shockwave wrote:I guess it just seems like every year when DC has their "major event" it's purpose is to retcon the one before it. I may be exaggerating and it's probably more than a little unfair to DC (especially as I haven't really read much of their stuff), but that's the impression I've gotten from many of the reviews around here. Quite often I hear "this character's back to this effectively retconning that".

Like 138 Scourge said, DC really has only done 2 major event stories to retcon stuff, being CoIE and IC. It's Marvel that seems to prefer the big event stories every year to change the status quo. I think the impression you're getting is more from Dom assuming something to be or will be a retcon when it really isn't.

Dominic wrote:Was this "Millenium" and the New Guardians? I kind of recall this.....

Yeah, I believe it was those stories.

Wow, the yellow flaw is back.

No it isn't. Again, Parallax is controlling the Green Lantern Corps, and those that can overcome his control can overcome the Yellow Impurity.