The Transformers (IDW, formerly "Robots in Disguise")

[Onslaught Six]

We hated that version of Prowl because it was entirely inconsistent with everything we had seen before--or since.

It is also important to remember: Prowl turns into a police car. The irony of "symbols of authority abusing their power" should not be lost, especially post-Ferguson. How often are you afraid of police? (Spoilers: for me, it's every time police are around.)

[Shockwave]

I'm never afraid of police. I do get annoyed by them though. I was on the freeway driving home from my parents once, going the same speed I usually do when a cop pulled me over. As I was waiting for him to run my license and what not, I heard a lot of sirens off in the distance. A minute later he gave my info back and said "Sorry I gotta go." So, yeah, glad I didn't get the ticket, but I shouldn't have been pulled over in the first place. I was going the same speed as anyone else and the same speed I'd been doing on the freeways here for decades, often times around other CHP with no problems. It was just weird.

[andersonh1]

How often are you afraid of police? (Spoilers: for me, it's every time police are around.)

Never. Never once had a problem with them.

I can see how your interpretation would resonate with some in the audience. But as someone who's had an uncle in the Highway Patrol and a good friend who was a police officer for a number of years, I know how tough their job is. I've got a lot of sympathy for most people in that line of work. It's not a responsibility I'd want.

[Dominic]

IDW's Autobots are hardly blood-drunk killers. Rodimus and a good portion of the Lost Light's crew aside, most of them are pretty reasonable. Even some of the Lost Light's crew are not that bad. (While some of them, such as Whirl, should probably be put down, guys like Swerve or Hoist are okay.)

And I suspect that the fact that I enjoyed that Spotlight quite a bit explains a lot of my opinion of Prowl's current characterization. Because he's fallen a long way since then.

The point of that "Spotlight" was to establish how/why Prowl was trying to change. And, it ultimately failed.

[andersonh1]

The point of that "Spotlight" was to establish how/why Prowl was trying to change. And, it ultimately failed.

It was a "fix fic" as it were, explaining why Prowl would break cover to save Breakdown in the first issue of the ongoing series, something that quite a few readers just couldn't accept as in-character for Prowl.

Barber has referenced it a few times, and the rationale for Prowl's reversion to cold hearted plotter was that Spike's betrayal had hit him really hard, if I remember right. He had tried trusting and it had come back to bite him, so he was done with that.

[Dominic]

The plan was to show the reasoning in flashbacks over the course of the ongoing series. But, fans got impatient, obligating IDW to rewrite the flashbacks as the "Spotlight" issue. It was not a back-write, as it was planned from beginning.

[andersonh1]

The plan was to show the reasoning in flashbacks over the course of the ongoing series. But, fans got impatient, obligating IDW to rewrite the flashbacks as the "Spotlight" issue. It was not a back-write, as it was planned from beginning.

That's right, now that you mention it I remember the editor at the time explaining it.

[BWprowl]

And I suspect that the fact that I enjoyed that Spotlight quite a bit explains a lot of my opinion of Prowl's current characterization. Because he's fallen a long way since then.

So you do recognize that you're in the minority in preferring that interpretation.

I don't read (or watch or whatever) stories with a big foam finger and a sign promoting a character I like and agree with, I'm not rooting for anyone and I don't 'care' if one or the other comes out on top in a conflict. I'm there to be interested or entertained. Whatever the outcome of the story, so long as it keeps my attention and interests me, I'm the one that wins.

Prowl the logical, pragmatic, ends-justify-the-means behind-the-scenes schemer? That makes (and has made) for some very compelling storytelling. AHM Coda and LSotW are immensely compelling stuff because of that characterization of Prowl. The very concepts of loyalty to an institution itself, rather than strict adherence to its ideals, can be explored in a multitude of ways through Prowl as a character. There's tons of great stuff there that you simply aren't going to get with Prowl as a bog-standard human-savin'-hero, which is a much more straight-laced concept that's easier to predict and less entertaining as a result.

Now, granted, your description of Prowl as Barber's been writing him here, where subtlety, nuance, and concepts of actual pragmatism are thrown out the window in favor of a jerky Autobot-flavored version of Starscream or something, doesn't make it sound like terribly compelling writing either, but I digress. At a purely conceptual level, I would rather have Prowl from LSotW over Prowl from the Spotlight. The latter might be more 'likeable', but the former is far more interesting.

I can see how your interpretation would resonate with some in the audience. But as someone who's had an uncle in the Highway Patrol and a good friend who was a police officer for a number of years, I know how tough their job is. I've got a lot of sympathy for most people in that line of work. It's not a responsibility I'd want.

But, I'm hoping, you also realize that there ARE unsavory, badly-behaved people on the police force as well, right? Not all cops are nice guys, and neither are all Autobots. What makes Prowl so compelling is that he's definitely not a nice guy, but he still believes himself to be fighting for the right thing, and will do anything, regardless of whether it's 'nice' or not, to achieve it. That pragmatism is THE interesting defining element of Prowl that you really DON'T see in anyone else in this series, and I certainly wouldn't want to see it thrown away in favor of a more vanilla heroic interpretation.

As a side-note, I find your distaste for this characterization interesting, since I know you read and enjoyed Superior Spider-Man. Not only was Otto there a very similar example of pragmatic, ends-justify-the-means heroism, but one of the main points of the book itself was the contrast between 'likeable' characters versus 'effective' ones, which is basically the debate we're having here. Granted, Otto and Prowl are execute rather differently (especially now, where I will again concede that Barber's handling of Prowl doesn't sound terribly compelling), but it's an interesting contrast nonetheless.

[andersonh1]

So you do recognize that you're in the minority in preferring that interpretation.

Yeah, there's no question about that.

Prowl the logical, pragmatic, ends-justify-the-means behind-the-scenes schemer? That makes (and has made) for some very compelling storytelling. AHM Coda and LSotW are immensely compelling stuff because of that characterization of Prowl. The very concepts of loyalty to an institution itself, rather than strict adherence to its ideals, can be explored in a multitude of ways through Prowl as a character. There's tons of great stuff there that you simply aren't going to get with Prowl as a bog-standard human-savin'-hero, which is a much more straight-laced concept that's easier to predict and less entertaining as a result.

Are we getting any of that now, though? Have we really seen any good exploration of loyalty to an instution? Or is Prowl little more than an arrogant, know it all elitist who has been handled with no subtlety at all? AHM Coda was really the one and only time that IDW Prowl more or less worked for me, even though I didn't agree with what he did to Kup, of course. Manipulation is one thing, sending Autobots to their deaths to hide embarrassing trial results is another entirely, but at least Last Stand of the Wreckers was a compelling story.

But ever since RID and MTMTE started, all subtlety is out the window. When the stories work, they work despite Prowl, not because of him.

but, I'm hoping, you also realize that there ARE unsavory, badly-behaved people on the police force as well, right?

Of course. In fact it was one of those unsavory types who was a little drunk on his own power that got my friend kicked off the police force. He didn't like her and abused his position as her superior to get her fired. I'd have to ask her just exactly how it happened, and it has been some years ago now. Yeah, police are human beings too, and some of them can't handle the power they have. But I'd never tar all police because some of them are bad.

As a side-note, I find your distaste for this characterization interesting, since I know you read and enjoyed Superior Spider-Man. Not only was Otto there a very similar example of pragmatic, ends-justify-the-means heroism, but one of the main points of the book itself was the contrast between 'likeable' characters versus 'effective' ones, which is basically the debate we're having here. Granted, Otto and Prowl are execute rather differently (especially now, where I will again concede that Barber's handling of Prowl doesn't sound terribly compelling), but it's an interesting contrast nonetheless.

Otto was a villain who sometimes tried to be better than he was, and sometimes reverted to type. And there was no doubt that he grew and changed and a lot of depth was added to the character by exposing him to situations and circumstances he hadn't faced in the same way before. There was some really compelling character work going on with Superior Spider Man, or I thought so. And it was always a fun book to read. When Ock would go into his pompous supervillain speech patterns as Spider Man it was entertaining to read.

If nothing else, my enjoyment of that book ought to show that it's not just "80s good guys" that can hold my interest, even though I'll admit I do like some of those in the mix when I'm reading.

Prowl's completely different. He's just a bog standard ends-justify-the-means villain with an Autobot badge. I don't find him the least bit interesting. There's no nuance or subtlety or layers to his characterization, and given how far we've come, I don't know how they could go back and add that in now.

[BWprowl]

Well at least we both seem to agree that Barber's dang-near ruined Prowl by this point!