TF Views

What Prowl said Dom. Seriously. I hate to keep hammering this point home but it's really the damned truth: You don't hate actual Beast Wars. You hate a few overly obnoxious fans. You've taken it to the level of punishing the content and franchise itself for a few actions of a few assholes that aren't even around anymore. And actually, since those assholes haven't done anything new in years maybe it's time to be done with that. And on top of that, you have now let other fans ruin things for you to the point that you're basically pulling a David Willis against BW. I think at this point a little self reflection is really in order: ie: Do you really want to be one of those people that pulls shit like what Willis did just to get back at a few people you don't know and don't care about and don't even talk to on the interenet anymore? It really is not worth it. Seriously, let it go.

Shockwave
-As much as I fucking hate Neitche, this fits: "Battle not with monsters, lest ye become one."

How would I have been able to incorporate that into the existing voting? The system only remains fair so long as everybody gets 10 points spread across 4 figures, if you leave 2 characters off then it's entirely unusable and unfair to the rest of the group. Moreover by leaving Wheeljack and Rhinox off your list, you would have doomed Prowl and Mirage to the lowest averages that way.

I would assume that the votes I did cast would count as the first 4 slots, with those characters getting the appropriate points. Or, in this case, Prowl getting points for the first 2 slots.

In hindsight, I should have just said "Prowl" and been done with it. This is similar to the principle used in local elections. If you have a councillor at large seat, and only one candidate that you want to see go over, you just check their name, and nobody else's, even if there are 5 or 6 seats available. The idea is that you give your guy a vote, but withhold votes from the other guys. Not only is your guy pushed up by one, but the other guys are (in theory) hobbled by your lack of support.

That alone proves how much your bigotry has damaged your mind, you'd cozy up to Bay.

.

"Bigotry"? Really? We are doing this?

You've totally pissed on my excitement for our site participating in Hall of Fame,

Sorry about that. Like I said in email, the fact that you got us in is impressive. Kudos for that.

And G1 is so over and finished, might I add, that you guys are still buying comics based off of it

I did specify "G1 10~15 years ago". Hasbro revived G1 in '05, and it has been a consistent presence since.

we're lucky we live in an age where we have enough free time and available discretionary funds to make that into our shared hobby, and Hall of Fame is just a meaningless little title meant to recognize the interests of those fans.

Agreed.

you're basically pulling a David Willis

Ouch. Ouch. That is profanity right there. Ouch.

That said, I have been over my reasons for disliking BW, if only retroactively. Some of it is the fandom. Some of it is the content. Those things all form a potent deterrent brew. I am done talking about BW. Truthfully, I have been for a while.


Dom
-screw those authors.

Shockwave wrote:Shockwave
-As much as I fucking hate Neitche, this fits: "Battle not with monsters, lest ye become one."

Dude, I love Icebird too!

Who's Nietchze?

(I should nominate Icebird for the HoF next year.)

The Willis comment was for perspective. Maybe what you did wasn't exactly on the same scale but it gets dangerously close to being the same action (ie: artificially skewing the results of an election for one's own personal reasons). And at this point we're not really discussing BW, we're discussing your hatred of BW fans. And for the record I think most of us here would regard ourselves as being in that category even though we understand that your comments are not directed towards us. All I know is at one point the BW show was in your "good tv" pile and I don't think it should leave that pile because of the crap in the "shitty comics pile" and a few random assholes that you don't even know. I certainly am able to still enjoy the BW show and could care less what the obnoxious parts of the fandom think of it.

BWprowl wrote:(In all honesty, I actually haven’t seen someone raving about BW being awesome in years. Raving against BM because they think it sucked, sure, but I don’t know where you’re going that people only go on and on about how cool BW is.)

Go on Tumblr sometime!

I suppose it’s impossible for the majority of people voting for Dinobot, and Waspinator, and Rhinox to have Beast Wars on their ‘cool TV show’ pile? Of course, all of them are obviously tunnel-visioned furries who’ve never experienced any other fiction in their life.

Okay, here's the thing. When Dinobot won, it was justified. For a subsect of the fandom, BW was a big deal. And it arguably saved the franchise from total destruction. (IMO I think Transformers would have come back in some form or another in the coming "80s nostalgiabomb" that was the early 2000s. You don't think that Transformers might have gotten a reboot in 2002 alongside GI Joe and He-Man?) So when Dinobot won, I kind of just shrugged. Okay, we acknowledged that BW was an important series now. Let's move on!

Then Waspinator won. And now people are voting hugely for Rhinox apparently? That would make it three years in a row that a BW character has won the "fans choice" vote...and honestly, if you ask me that makes it seem like a disproportionate amount of "Just BW" fans exist. Rhinox doesn't, IMO, have any more right to be there than, say, Red Alert. I'm sure Red Alert isn't people's first pick to be in there--hell, we're still trying to get dudes like 'Prowl' and 'Mirage' into this, characters who pop up at some point in damn near every variation of TF. Why a 'third' BW character at this point? You start to ask yourself the question, do these guys watch/read 'any' other iterations of TF?

I mean, when we make picks, we usually do it because of 'overall brand presence.' Lockdown showed up in 2008ish and has since made it into all three of the major TF continuities of the time (Animated, Movie, G1 comics) and I wouldn't be surprised if he turns up in Prime eventually. Almost every single TF toyline ever has at least had a guy 'named' Prowl. Barricade is, if nothing else, one of the most recognizable Decepticons in the first TF film, and also transcended that to at least WFC. Rhinox was a dude who hung out off to the side of most BW episodes (he certainly wasn't the focus of many S2 or S3 episodes), had a focus of half a season of BM (...as a different guy, debatably) and then had his name recycled maybe once or twice.

Rhinox is not a major Transformers character. Prowl is. Wheeljack is. And he doesn't even have the wildcard of "distinctive character" on his side. Shit, I would sooner see Blackarachnia or BW Megatron in there, at least they were instantly recognizable and had quantifiable personalities, or have gotten toys in later series (Cybertron Megs, Animated BA). Rhinox doesn't have any of that shit. Rhinox is just that dude with chainguns who fixes things. He's loved 'because' he's kind of bland and unimportant. If you don't have the card of "important in multiple iterations of the franchise" (like Ironhide) then you need to have the "really important in his own series/super distinctive" card, like, for example, Sky-Byte. I could get behind Sky-Byte! I loved Sky-Byte. He was distinctive and very important to how RID felt. You could kill Rhinox in the middle of S2 unceremoniously and he would barely be missed, as long as you introduced a new character who could do similar things.

It's just, like, why a 'third' BW character? Nobody from RID or the UT has even been 'nominated,' let alone won. Or Animated, for that matter, a show with almost as much reverence as BW. (Seriously, how come nobody nominates Bulkhead? Distinctive character, he got the invite to the Prime party, and he's one of Animated's original characters.)

I'm not taking it to Dom's vindictive level, I just see partially where he might be coming from. In the grand scheme of TF's near 30 (!) years of entertainment, BW occupies a paltry four years--six if you count BM, and most of the fans don't. ArmEnerTron took up literally just that much time (six years; two years per series), and the live action movie has more or less done the same (the Animated break between the first two films notwithstanding). Still nothing compared to G1/G2's 'twelve years,' and that's not even counting Classics/Universe/Generations which is almost entirely based on that series.

Or just kickstart a thread about BW on /co/. They savaged the series the other day.

Wait, really? /co/ usually loves BW.

Onslaught Six wrote:For what it's worth, I still say BW is a good show. I liked BM better, especially since it's a black sheep these days. (I get so angry when people say crap like "BM DOESN'T EXIST!" That's really childish.)

Wow, people really say that? I liked BW more than BM, but I certainly couldn't say it didn't exist. Even Headmasters, BW Neo, and other weird non-US stuff exists, whether or not I like it. That's why I don't go onto more hardcore TF boards I guess, I stick to conversations with more open-minded folks and casual-collector folks.

It's not usually on TF boards I see that kind of thing. It's on, say, /co/ or Tumblr, non-TF-specific places.

And G1 is so over and finished, might I add, that you guys are still buying comics based off of it - just last week you were throwing a fit about not being able to find a G1-inspired comic book.

During BW's run, G1 'was' dead. The closest any of us got were Furman-penned convention comics where Optimus Prime, Megatron and Polar Claw fight a cool-looking but retarded Rampage repaint.

BWprowl wrote:

Shockwave wrote:Shockwave
-As much as I fucking hate Neitche, this fits: "Battle not with monsters, lest ye become one."

Dude, I love Icebird too!

Who's Nietchze?

Onslaught Six wrote:

BWprowl wrote:(In all honesty, I actually haven’t seen someone raving about BW being awesome in years. Raving against BM because they think it sucked, sure, but I don’t know where you’re going that people only go on and on about how cool BW is.)

Go on Tumblr sometime!

Please, I’m not crazy. That thing’s like one constant, compounding rage thread.

Okay, here's the thing. When Dinobot won, it was justified. For a subsect of the fandom, BW was a big deal. And it arguably saved the franchise from total destruction. (IMO I think Transformers would have come back in some form or another in the coming "80s nostalgiabomb" that was the early 2000s. You don't think that Transformers might have gotten a reboot in 2002 alongside GI Joe and He-Man?) So when Dinobot won, I kind of just shrugged. Okay, we acknowledged that BW was an important series now. Let's move on!

Then Waspinator won. And now people are voting hugely for Rhinox apparently? That would make it three years in a row that a BW character has won the "fans choice" vote...and honestly, if you ask me that makes it seem like a disproportionate amount of "Just BW" fans exist. Rhinox doesn't, IMO, have any more right to be there than, say, Red Alert. I'm sure Red Alert isn't people's first pick to be in there--hell, we're still trying to get dudes like 'Prowl' and 'Mirage' into this, characters who pop up at some point in damn near every variation of TF. Why a 'third' BW character at this point? You start to ask yourself the question, do these guys watch/read 'any' other iterations of TF?

I think some of it might be, and I find part of myself siding with the BW fans/voters on this, that it seems kind of jacked that half-a-dozen G1 guys get auto-admitted year after year, while BW, which was a generation of TF unto itself, gets to have a couple ‘token’ guys in the HoF and is then expected to have that be ‘enough’ and have things go back to nothing but tons of G1 guys getting in, mainly on the basis that they appeared in the first couple years of a cartoon (forget UT or Animated characters, where are the post-’86 G1 characters in the Hall of Fame?). I don’t mean to legitimately compare an action figure Hall of Fame to such a touchy, serious issue, but it’s sort of like a previously racially-biased college that had only admitted whites in allowing a couple black people to attend, then going “See, we’re equal-opportunity!” then going back only letting in hundreds of crackers year after year. I’m not saying it’s the *right* way to go about things, but maybe if Hasbro themselves actually used the HoF to acknowledge that other generations of TF existed, fans wouldn’t feel the need to try and make up the difference themselves.

I mean, when we make picks, we usually do it because of 'overall brand presence.' Lockdown showed up in 2008ish and has since made it into all three of the major TF continuities of the time (Animated, Movie, G1 comics) and I wouldn't be surprised if he turns up in Prime eventually. Almost every single TF toyline ever has at least had a guy 'named' Prowl. Barricade is, if nothing else, one of the most recognizable Decepticons in the first TF film, and also transcended that to at least WFC. Rhinox was a dude who hung out off to the side of most BW episodes (he certainly wasn't the focus of many S2 or S3 episodes), had a focus of half a season of BM (...as a different guy, debatably) and then had his name recycled maybe once or twice.

Rhinox is not a major Transformers character. Prowl is. Wheeljack is. And he doesn't even have the wildcard of "distinctive character" on his side. Shit, I would sooner see Blackarachnia or BW Megatron in there, at least they were instantly recognizable and had quantifiable personalities, or have gotten toys in later series (Cybertron Megs, Animated BA). Rhinox doesn't have any of that shit. Rhinox is just that dude with chainguns who fixes things. He's loved 'because' he's kind of bland and unimportant. If you don't have the card of "important in multiple iterations of the franchise" (like Ironhide) then you need to have the "really important in his own series/super distinctive" card, like, for example, Sky-Byte. I could get behind Sky-Byte! I loved Sky-Byte. He was distinctive and very important to how RID felt. You could kill Rhinox in the middle of S2 unceremoniously and he would barely be missed, as long as you introduced a new character who could do similar things.

I would actually argue that Prowl is not, in fact, a major Transformers character, at least not until recently. What did he actually do in the cartoon, particularly compared to Rhinox? Prowl was Prime’s other right hand man, the straight man to Jazz, and the logical one who could come up with plans sometimes. He was, honestly, no more or less important or distinctive than Rhinox, and at least Rhinox got the be the one to beat Megatron Ones And For All at the end of BW, and then half of BM wouldn’t have happened without him. You, and I, and Dom may have nominated Prowl just because IDW has used him so well in their comics the last few years, but if he makes it to the vote, most people are going to be voting for him because “Oh hey I remember that guy from the cartoon!”. Which is…exactly why groups of younger fans might vote for Rhinox. Which is perfectly fair.

It's just, like, why a 'third' BW character?

Why a ‘tenth’ G1 character?

Nobody from RID or the UT has even been 'nominated,' let alone won. Or Animated, for that matter, a show with almost as much reverence as BW. (Seriously, how come nobody nominates Bulkhead? Distinctive character, he got the invite to the Prime party, and he's one of Animated's original characters.)

I nominated Bulkhead last year, it didn’t take. I think one problem might be that the Animated fan-following is still relatively new at this, whereas the BW fandom had years to get themselves into a big, vocal group and concentrate on which particular characters they thought were coolest. The other thing is that most, if not all, BW characters are 100% individual, whereas a *lot* of the Animated cast have analogues in the HoF already that *technically* count for them, so maybe there’s less pressure to get a guy like Bulkhead in.

RiD and UT have very little chance because, while you, and Dom, and I and everyone else here may vote for characters we think are ‘important’ and so forth, the rest of the fandom’s pretty much voting for their favorites. And a lot of them tend to simply discount stuff like RiD and UT. Hell, a lot of them don’t even read the comics that are out currently.

Or just kickstart a thread about BW on /co/. They savaged the series the other day.

Wait, really? /co/ usually loves BW.

They used to. I’ve been seeing a load of hate for the series recently. Mostly from

Spoiler

casuals

who have no idea what they’re talking about and think TF still begins and ends with G1, but yeah, it gets anything but a completely warm reception these days.

BWprowl wrote:Dude, I love Icebird too!

Who's Nietchze?

Oh cool, Beetlejuice! XD

Actually it looked like RID had a bit of a bullet over at TFW (from what I saw but I tend to lurk casually over there more than actually participate).

I think Prowl hit it on the head: Hasbro is obviously going to continue autoinducting a bunch of G1 bots every year so why vote for them when we know they'll get in "eventually". This is now just feeling like a chance to show support for other iterations of the franchise.

Amd. round in circles.....

(IMO I think Transformers would have come back in some form or another in the coming "80s nostalgiabomb" that was the early 2000s. You don't think that Transformers might have gotten a reboot in 2002 alongside GI Joe and He-Man?)

As much as it galls me to say it, but Beast Wank probably has something to do with "Transformers" being the most successful of the revived properties. "GI Joe" is on life support. The movie made the franchise slightly more vital than the next movie franchise, which is piss poor considering that "GI Joe" had 25+ years of history behind it, with this being year 30. Meanwhile, Hasbro is still shipping Iron Man figures.

He-Man floundered because Mattel did not know how to manage it.

"Beast Wars" kept the franchise going and growing while "GI Joe" stagnated for 7 years. And while"He-Man" simply mouldered, "Beast Wars" gave Hasbro a chance to learn about developing IP.

Without "Beast Wars", TF may have gone the way of the other properties, either fading away or falling in to a backward looking spiral.

But......

I mean, when we make picks, we usually do it because of 'overall brand presence.' Lockdown showed up in 2008ish and has since made it into all three of the major TF continuities of the time (Animated, Movie, G1 comics) and I wouldn't be surprised if he turns up in Prime eventually. Almost every single TF toyline ever has at least had a guy 'named' Prowl. Barricade is, if nothing else, one of the most recognizable Decepticons in the first TF film, and also transcended that to at least WFC. Rhinox was a dude who hung out off to the side of most BW episodes (he certainly wasn't the focus of many S2 or S3 episodes), had a focus of half a season of BM (...as a different guy, debatably) and then had his name recycled maybe once or twice.

This, more or less.

The damned fandom just defaults to BW whenever somebody brings up high points in the franchise's history. Like O6 said, it is like nobody considers any other part of TF. "Beast Wars" benefited from very low expectations and the fact that the G1 cartoon as a whole was not that good. "Beast Wars" was good, but it was not good enough as a whole to warrant the amount of praise that it still gets. Nor has it aged well in a technical sense.

And, as O6 points out, Rhinox was a secondary character for the franchise as a whole.

Almost every single TF toyline ever has at least had a guy 'named' Prowl. Barricade is, if nothing else, one of the most recognizable Decepticons in the first TF film,

And, the movie had an impact on the franchise that was comparable to BW. Hell, I would argue it had a bigger impact. The movie increased the hobby's profile far moe than BW. More non-fans recognize Bayformers as TFs than they recognize Beastformers.

Seriously, how come nobody nominates Bulkhead? Distinctive character, he got the invite to the Prime party, and he's one of Animated's original characters.)

He has not contributed much to the franchise as a whole. But, I see your point. Including Waspinator sets the bar low enough for Bulkhead.

Still nothing compared to G1/G2's 'twelve years,' and that's not even counting Classics/Universe/Generations which is almost entirely based on that series.

Or the relative impact that each iteration had.

I liked RiD as a line. But, it was at most a place holder line consisting of recolours, repacked toys and cancelled moulds from other lines. I still consider to be a footnote to the beast era.

The UT started during the revival boom. And, it has had a lasting impact in the form of Vector Prime, Hotshot and Minicons. It also yielded us a Unicron and Primus.

But, we cannot forget Beast Whores!

I think some of it might be, and I find part of myself siding with the BW fans/voters on this, that it seems kind of jacked that half-a-dozen G1 guys get auto-admitted year after year, while BW, which was a generation of TF unto itself, gets to have a couple ‘token’ guys in the HoF and is then expected to have that be ‘enough’

Because there is more to the hobby than robots in fur suits.

I would actually argue that Prowl is not, in fact, a major Transformers character, at least not until recently. What did he actually do in the cartoon, particularly compared to Rhinox? Prowl was Prime’s other right hand man, the straight man to Jazz, and the logical one who could come up with plans sometimes.

Prowl did plenty in the old cartoons and comics.

What about Wheeljack or Mirage? They both had their moments to shine both in early episodes and over time.

I think Prowl hit it on the head: Hasbro is obviously going to continue autoinducting a bunch of G1 bots every year so why vote for them when we know they'll get in "eventually". This is now just feeling like a chance to show support for other iterations of the franchise.

Arguably, this shows just how out of step the bulk of the fandom is with the brand. (And, can we please avoid sophist idiocy like "the brand is out of step with the fans!"?) Do we really want every year's winner to be the guy in the damn fur suit?


Dom
-unhappily betting on BW Megatron.

Dominic wrote:Amd. round in circles.....

Hey, we’re TFV. We wouldn’t have it any other way.

The damned fandom just defaults to BW whenever somebody brings up high points in the franchise's history. Like O6 said, it is like nobody considers any other part of TF. "Beast Wars" benefited from very low expectations and the fact that the G1 cartoon as a whole was not that good. "Beast Wars" was good, but it was not good enough as a whole to warrant the amount of praise that it still gets. Nor has it aged well in a technical sense.

The G1 cartoon has aged even worse, and people still treat that as the be-all, end-all of TF fiction. It was the *only* place where Frenzy was Red and Rumble was Blue, and yet people still adamantly insist that that’s a legitimate case for saying they are those colors because they still fixate on that being the *main* Transformers media. In 28 years people still see this crappy eighties cartoon as the primary measuring stick by which all ongoing TF media should base itself around! At least BW was a half-decent show, and there’s less people who go on about that one than the G1 cartoon.

And, as O6 points out, Rhinox was a secondary character for the franchise as a whole.

Ditto Prowl. Or hell, Shockwave. Or Barricade.

And, the movie had an impact on the franchise that was comparable to BW. Hell, I would argue it had a bigger impact. The movie increased the hobby's profile far more than BW. More non-fans recognize Bayformers as TFs than they recognize Beastformers.

A pity the non-fans aren’t the ones voting on the HoF then, I guess.

I liked RiD as a line. But, it was at most a place holder line consisting of recolours, repacked toys and cancelled moulds from other lines. I still consider to be a footnote to the beast era.

Still, it’d be hard to deny the impact a guy like Black Convoy/Scourge had. We still regularly get toys with his particular color scheme.

Because there is more to the hobby than robots in fur suits.

Hey, there’s a lot more to the hobby than the ’84-’85 cast, but I don’t see you complaining every time one of those guys gets admitted/nominated.

Prowl did plenty in the old cartoons and comics.

What about Wheeljack or Mirage? They both had their moments to shine both in early episodes and over time.

Again, same thing for Rhinox, and Rhinox only has *two* other guys from his series in the HoF. Wheeljack and Mirage have tons of their teammates taking up space over there.

Arguably, this shows just how out of step the bulk of the fandom is with the brand. (And, can we please avoid sophist idiocy like "the brand is out of step with the fans!"?) Do we really want every year's winner to be the guy in the damn fur suit?

Hey, like I said, I personally don’t want Rhinox to win either, I’m already burnt out on BW winners, myself (though as I’ve been saying, I can see why people would think he deserves the nomination). Of course, I’m also burnt out on G1 guys, and not just in the HoF. If Hasbro wanted to can Generations and focus entirely on Prime for now, I’d be for that. That way TFPrime could expand, and at least, in terms of design and character interpretation, it’d be stuff we hadn’t seen before. If IDW wanted to cancel all their current G1 ongoings, and instead put out some gaiden book about the UT, or RiD, or BM, or here’s a nutty idea, a completely original TF story, I’d be down for that too. The Movies may have increased public awareness of TF, but as far as the fanbase it’s done nothing to convince them that TF can be anything other than Optimus Prime and Megatron leading Autobots and Decepticons who turn into cars and planes fighting each other on Earth. BW at least expanded the horizons a bit, and every TF series since has done nothing but jam things more and more back into the status quo. Armada was a downright nutty reinterpretation of TF compared to Prime, which is just a slightly skewed version of G1.

Forget the fans, it’s easy to ignore them jamming Beast Wars down your throat. Hasbro’s been jamming G1 down our throats for years now, and they’ve been doing it *officially*.

Dom
-unhappily betting on BW Megatron.

Will that even work, per Hasbro, I mean? Do they ‘count’ BW Megs as being in the same slot as the already-admitted G1 Megatron? They lump the Movie guys in that way, I know.

As an aside, can I give a big ‘screw you’ to Hasbro on that one? Forget Barricade, you know who I would love to nominate from the Movieverse? Starscream. He did Important Stuff in all three movies, and he was the star if the singular best piece of Movie fiction ever produced. I love him to the point that I’ve got over a dozen different toys of him arranged in a HotShotpheliac-Willis-Style shrine on top of my toy display case, and I’ll never be able to express that via nominating him for the Hall of Fame because Hasbro considers his character to just be a footnote to some G1 character that he actually has hardly anything in common with beyond turning into a jet and being named Starscream.

Hey, we’re TFV. We wouldn’t have it any other way.

I am not even going to touch this, for fear of seeming ablist.

The G1 cartoon has aged even worse, and people still treat that as the be-all, end-all of TF fiction. It was the *only* place where Frenzy was Red and Rumble was Blue, and yet people still adamantly insist that that’s a legitimate case for saying they are those colors because they still fixate on that being the *main* Transformers media. In 28 years people still see this crappy eighties cartoon as the primary measuring stick by which all ongoing TF media should base itself around! At least BW was a half-decent show, and there’s less people who go on about that one than the G1 cartoon.

Nobody here is defending the cartoon or basing their choices wholly on said cartoon.

Ditto Prowl. Or hell, Shockwave. Or Barricade.

Prowl and Shockwave have been important over the years. Barricade I will give you. But, he is part of the movie, and had a real push.

A pity the non-fans aren’t the ones voting on the HoF then, I guess.

In a sense, this is the problem. I do not expect non-fans, or even many casual fans, to vote. But, too many of the people voting are the kind of backward thinking and unsular fans who cannot get beyond their favourites. You know full well that I am not a fan of the Bay movies. But, I can recognize their importance to the hobby. Many of the beast fixated fans are stuck on Transfurries because it is what they grew up with, not unlike the old wackbards ass GeeWunners.

Still, it’d be hard to deny the impact a guy like Black Convoy/Scourge had. We still regularly get toys with his particular color scheme.

Perfect example of what I was talking about.

Hey, there’s a lot more to the hobby than the ’84-’85 cast, but I don’t see you complaining every time one of those guys gets admitted/nominated.

The one concession I would make on this point is that the 84/85 cast has had more time to make an impact. But, again, I still moderate my choices. I have a real attachment to Windcharger and Red Alert. Red Alert even had an episode to devoted to him. But, I ain't trying to put either of them over. And, I sure as hell would not put them over instead of a character like Barricade. Hell, in objective terms, I would put Unicron over first. And, you know how much I hate Unicron.

If IDW wanted to cancel all their current G1 ongoings, and instead put out some gaiden book about the UT, or RiD, or BM, or here’s a nutty idea, a completely original TF story, I’d be down for that too.

Agreed, but a different question than what we are arguing. (Place my normal disclaimer about writers here:-----------------------------------------)

Hasbro’s been jamming G1 down our throats for years now, and they’ve been doing it *officially*.

That just means that there is legit stuff happening with G1, rather than people watching the same old series again and again and again....

Will that even work, per Hasbro, I mean? Do they ‘count’ BW Megs as being in the same slot as the already-admitted G1 Megatron? They lump the Movie guys in that way, I know.

Hasbro said that BW Megatron is a legit choice.

They seem to be okay with "more than one character with teh same name", provided that they are legitimately different characters. In the case of the movie characters, they are idiomatically G1 in most cases.

To use actual examples,

G1 and BW had characters named "Inferno". There were at least 2, arguably more, characters named "Inferno" in the UT. And, there is a Bayverse Inferno. Now, assuming that any of those guys besides the first two had a chance in hell of getting nominated, they would all be legal because they are not the same character. (You will notice that I left of "Universe" and TFU Inferno, as one is debatably an earlier iteration of the character and the other is definitely the old character.)

But, UT Optimus Prime is idiomatically G1/movie/TFU Optimus Prime.


Dom
-like Bayverse Inferno, but ain't putting him over....