Star Drive vs. Nemesis: name of the G1 'con ship

[Tigermegatron]

Sometimes "one" has to look OUTSIDE the box & put together the bit & pieces to form the puzzle.

The thing is that there is no way that most people would even know to look for that informtion, hence the confusion.


Dom
-Gomess needs to read comics.[/quote]

This info is common knowledge & keeps getting re-mentioned more than anything else in the TF fandom. thru various outlets like Botcon, on-line Q & A's,those fan created TF toy catalog books. thru the TFWiki & so forth.

[Gomess]

Bob budiansky wrote both the ark & nemesis in the over-all cartoon/comic story treatment that he submitted to Hasbro.

Post a link to it. I've never seen it, but if you've seen it in "various outlets like Botcon, on-line Q & A's,those fan created TF toy catalog books. thru the TFWiki & so forth" then you should be able to find it pretty quickly, and it would help out this thread a lot.

Gomess needs to read comics.

Dreamwave put me off TF comics. For reals. I just haven't really cared since then. I'll get over it.

[Dominic]

DW gets a bad wrap. "War Within" was good. Their sourcebooks set the standard for that sort of thing, if only in TF. And, the "Armada" comics were good, if truncated.

[Gomess]

Err... Their having a "bad rap" really has nothing to do with my opinion of them. I tried to read them back when they first started and everyone thought they were the shit, and I just thought they were plain ol' shit. The on-modern-Earth stuff was the worst for me, practically unreadable. =[

War Within was just kinda unimaginative, I felt. And I've explained my dislike for pre-Earth altmodes countless times. Tantrum's "tank" mode was particularly funny to me, and of COURSE Megatron becomes a tank. Yawwwn. Let's have a more interesting interpretation of "alien version of a Walther", eh?

Armada was... well, the art was bloody awful. I often had next to no idea what was supposed to be going on. I think in the very first issue there was a panel where there's.. like.. an alien butterfly on the ground? And then it's up in the air? And for some reason that amazes some Transformer who sees it? Maybe? Bleh.

[Dominic]

Tantrum's tank form was no worse than many of the oh so wonderful forms shown in the old UK comics. And, you could actually tell characters apart, even if they were redesigned. Your dislike of "War Within" borders on "apparently wanting to dislike anything after 1999". Megatron's gun mode was always a stupid idea. Good riddance to it.

Original ideas for the sake of originality can often lead to bad ideas.


Raiz's art in "Armada" was fine. The specific butterfly scene you reference was more than clear. Sparkplug move a piece of debris, and let the critter go. Got that on the first glance.


Dom
-dislikes defending DW.

[Gomess]

Tantrum's tank form was no worse than many of the oh so wonderful forms shown in the old UK comics.

Uh... agreed? I don't like *any* pre-Earth forms. It's just not my thing. I see it as a lazy attempt to add depth to the TF universe. ...That said, it really IS one of the silliest. If his vehicle form hadn't come with guns, would he have taken the form of a cow on Earth rather than a steer?

Your dislike of "War Within" borders on "apparently wanting to dislike anything after 1999".

Well that's just silly. As I said, DW's comics put me off TFs for a while, so it's more a case of "out of the loop" than "dislike". It all just slipped past my radar, and still does. I liked Animated though. And even if I did only like pre-millennium TF stuff, what's wrong with that? Pretty sure every fan has a right to a favourite era.

Original ideas for the sake of originality can often lead to bad ideas.

Um... also agreed? I was arguing that if you're going to try and make pre-Earth Soundwave transform into a Cybertronian cassette player (and boy do they), it makes sense for pre-Earth Megatron to transform into a Cybertronian gun. That's simple logic, "originality for the sake of originality" doesn't even come into it.

Raiz's art in "Armada" was fine.

Oh come onnn, stating your opinion as fact went out with The Bartman. *I* personally thought Raiz's art was formless, you thought it was fine. End of.

The specific butterfly scene you reference was more than clear. Sparkplug move a piece of debris, and let the critter go.

So it WAS some sort of animal. Well what the hell was it doing on Cybertron? In every piece of Transformers fiction ever, finding organic life on Cybertron has been a REALLY big deal. And what did that scene even contribute or symbolise? I've got a bloody degree in storytelling, and I. did. not. get. it. D=

dislikes defending DW.

You could always stop, seeing as you're not gonna change my mind. =p

[Dominic]

Uh... agreed? I don't like *any* pre-Earth forms. It's just not my thing. I see it as a lazy attempt to add depth to the TF universe. ...That said, it really IS one of the silliest. If his vehicle form hadn't come with guns, would he have taken the form of a cow on Earth rather than a steer?

Lazy would be showing them with the same forms they have on Earth before they arrive on Earth. ("Micromasters" did this. But, the writers admitted as much by including a McGuffin explanation. And, really, for the sheer am amount of work it would have taken, who can blame the artist for weaseling out of it.)

Tantrum's guns are there as a visual identifier, to help readers recognize the character. You know this as well as anyone.

My only problem with Tantrum having a tank form was that it ran counter to his original tech-specs, which list him as a fuel carrier. But, the original comics were never too careful about being consistent on this sort of thing, so there is no reason for DW to have been.

I was arguing that if you're going to try and make pre-Earth Soundwave transform into a Cybertronian cassette player (and boy do they), it makes sense for pre-Earth Megatron to transform into a Cybertronian gun.

When did Soundwave turn into a Cybertronian tape player? He turned into a sign post in the cartoon, and a tank sort of thing in "War Within". Megatron was a tank in G2, and who can blame DW for wanting to duck that stupid gun form whenever possible?

So it WAS some sort of animal. Well what the hell was it doing on Cybertron? In every piece of Transformers fiction ever, finding organic life on Cybertron has been a REALLY big deal. And what did that scene even contribute or symbolise? I've got a bloody degree in storytelling, and I. did. not. get. it. D=

Apparently, the "Armada" comics assumed that there was life on Cybertron. No big deal.

The point of the scene was the relativity of size, and to contrast how the Minicons (usually the small ones) were about to be treated.


Dom
-will defend DW on certain points.

[Onslaught Six]

Soundwave has a bit in WfC where he basically turns into a Cybertronian tapedeck.

This argument is dumb; DW sucked for reasons beyond actual story content, like pointless shock value story developments (Sunstreaker is gay! Wheeljack is dead, oh wait no he isn't!) and generally is not a high point. Can we go back to trying to make G read All Hail Megs?

I liked AHM because it was basically the culmination of every G1 fanfic I have ever written.

[Dominic]

Do not forget "Last Stand of the Wreckers".

Dom
-has an idea for a thread.

[Gomess]

the original comics were never too careful about being consistent on this sort of thing, so there is no reason for DW to have been.

This from the guy who is ALWAYS saying "why hold a property back if it can be easily improved?" =p

Can we go back to trying to make G read All Hail Megs?

Yes, yes you may.

Dom has an idea for a thread.

...Am I going to regret it?

Anyway, it's my birthday in one month. Just sayin'.