TF Views

JT started using non DSX (Darth Star) ideas, so I thought we were back to the non-TFing DS. Either way, Unicron can cause fear.

The problem with saying "the Emire just blows up Unicron" is that it just assumes that Unicron does the stupidest possible thing, and lets himself get shot. Even the worst written cross-overs, ("Marve v/s DC" or "Countdown: Arena"), avoid this type of thinking. If we go by the movie, (and Unicron's least powerful incarnation), the Matrix is "the one thing, the only thing" that he has to worry about. At the very least, it would take a couple of shots from the DS planet-killer to stop Unicron. And, even with a (relatively quick) 5-minute recharge cycle, that would give Unicon plenty of time to do dreadful things, even discounting the use of henchmen.

Dom

If we go by Moviecron, then one shot from the Super Laser should be more than enough. His armor was easily breached by the Dinobots' weapons, even though those same weapons never seemed to do much(if any) physical damage to the Decepticons. The Matrix was the only thing around that could destroy his entire body in one go, but from the looks of things, the other TFs could have taken him apart piece by piece if they could avoid being swatted. I'd say the only thing that made that Unicron a threat was his size.

That 'is' an interesting point and it always made me wonder just what was so special about the Matrix? I guess maybe Unicron has self-preservation systems (We saw some of this when Hot Rod et al were inside of him) that would repair him if he weren't killed with Matrix Energy?

Which really brings us to another core arguement--how, precisely, do we determine when the battle is over and someone has Won? Arguably it's when one of them Stops Moving altogether and is in little tiny pieces, but given the above theory, what's to say Unicron can't just come back at a later date and continue on?

It's like the argument about who won with Prime vs. Megs--Prime Died, Megs went on to become Galvatron. Megatron Won.

Onslaught Six wrote:It's like the argument about who won with Prime vs. Megs--Prime Died, Megs went on to become Galvatron. Megatron Won.

Eh, I guess you caould say that Prime, in the long run, lost that fight with Megatron, but he still beat Megatron bad enough that the Decepticons had to retreat, which led to the Autobots winning that battle. I'd say it was pretty much a draw, with each leader considering themselves the victor, interestingly enough.

Yeah, yeah, the Autobots beat the Decepticons in that *battle* (big surprise), but the fact remains, Megatron won his and Prime's duel.

A lot of people still have a hard time dealing with that. X]

Megatron wasn't in much better shape at the end of the fight. He had to be carried back to the shuttle to escape, and couldn't even fight back against Starscream when he threw him out the door. Unicron would have let him "proceed on his way to oblivion". So he 'won' only in the sense that Prime died first... Megatron was on his way to the same fate.

andersonh1 wrote:So he 'won' only in the sense that Prime died first...

Yyyyeah, pretty much. =p

Well, you know, if the fight ends with both combatants dying, I'd call that a draw.

But... Megatron didn't die! O_o

Hypothetical "Oh, but if Unicron HADN'T come..." arguments must be ignored, of course, because... Unicron DID come. And even if he hadn't, there's not anything to suggest Megatron was dying. There was plenty to suggest the opposite; most of all, the angry energy with which he bargained with Unicron. Prime, on the other hand, was instantly confined to his deathbed.

I'm not gonna get into this argument for real, because I've already had it IRL, believe it or not. It's as simple as this: Prime and Megatron had a fight. Prime died. Megatron didn't. Therefore, Megatron won!

The Prime v/s Megatron fight illustrates my point about establishing the conditions under which the parties meet and fight. Megatron may have survived without Unicron, had Starscream not tossed him into space.

Of course, Prime was doing pretty well, right up until Hotrod jumped in. Had Hotrod stayed out of the way, or shot Megatron from a distance while warning Prime that Megatron was going for an abandoned gun, the fight would have gone differently.

If Prime were more ruthless, and willing to risk shooting Hotrod, or shoot through him, he may have won.

Dom
-went to the gaming store for paint, and plum forgot to check the GURPS books.