IDW "Combiner Wars" comic discussion and speculation

The modern comics universe has had such a different take on G1, one that's significantly represented by the Generations toys, so they share a forum. A modern take on a Real Cybertronian Hero. Currently starring Generations toys, IDW "The Transformers" comics, MTMTE, TF vs GI Joe, and Windblade. Oh wait, and now Skybound, wheee!
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Dominic
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Re: IDW "Combiner Wars" comic discussion and speculation

Post by Dominic »

Frankly, I am just amazed that somebody is actually posting about the comics.

So, with that list of characters,
Spoiler
and assuming Sunstreaker stayed on Cybertron after "Dark Cybertron"
, that is all of the first 3 waves
Spoiler
aside from Cyclonus. That is
odd because
Spoiler
I would have expected
Hasbro to
Spoiler
mandate a Voyager class figure appear
on
Spoiler
page in a banner event that is meant to push the line
.

That ending just didn't make enough sense on top of that. Plus, with Nautica on the Lost Light, it skews the females more into crazytown. But I seriously think a better retcon would have been welcome where this was just a bizarre gloss-over.
What exactly happened? I am asking about the initial event and the retcon.
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Dominic
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Re: IDW "Combiner Wars" comic discussion and speculation

Post by Dominic »

So, I did not read "Transformers" issue 40. But, Prowl was telling me that Barber decided to go back and "fix" "Spotlight: Mirage"? And, I read the preview pages as posted online. Yup, Barber does just that.


At this point, I regret dropping TF just because....I want to drop it again. Seriously, why the hell did Barber feel the need to go dig up one of the more unique "Spotlight" issues....just to make it fit? And, failing that, why did he have to make Mirage some kind of mystical foo-foo vision quester, rather than just going with the simpler explanatiion of "Mirage is nuttier than a PBJ using chunky Jiff"?

And, if Barber needs to make "Spotlight: Mirage" fit better (for whatever insane OCD reasons he has) *and* he needs Mirage to be Transfoo-foo powered, why do the other characters have to buy in that Mirage is having magical foo-foo visions (which makes is sensible to bring him back to Cybertron) rather than just locking his lunatic ass up and medicating him in to a happy place?


In all seriousness, the comic is getting offensively bad enough that it has killed my interest in getting the Protectobots. And, the only reason I even want to finish Superion is because I am so close to being done. (I might not bother finishing the Stunticons at all.)


It is like IDW sat down with a list of "stupidest things in comics" and then used it as a mandate for what to do with TF. Sliding time scales? Got it. Cheap references to current events? Ayup. Idiotic McGuffins? Back-writing the McGuffin both in-story and as a cause for human civilization? You betca. And, now, going back and drawing on a self-contained and resolved one-shot? Sure, why the hell not.
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Re: IDW "Combiner Wars" comic discussion and speculation

Post by Sparky Prime »

Personally, I like that they're acknowledging Spotlight Mirage. It's the one Spotlight issue that had nothing to do with anything, so turning it into a medical condition Mirage has that gives him odd dreams I think is actually a nice touch with out really changing the Spotlight itself. And how Barber uses it here kinda reminds me of the strange prophetic dreams Cheetor had in Beast Wars, which was never really explained either. The way I see it, it doesn't make Mirage a "foo-foo vision quester" anymore than Cheetor was. And it's interesting that Ironhide appears to have shared the same dream, who noticeably didn't say anything about the dream to Optimus.
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Re: IDW "Combiner Wars" comic discussion and speculation

Post by Dominic »

Why did the "Spotlight" issue have to tie in with anything?

Why not just leave it as a more or less self-contained thing that implied Mirage had doubts (and possibly other issues) and them just move on? Did they need to give Mirage "visions" (because....what the fuck....) rather than just have him go to Cybertron (because everybody else is going anyway or something)?

I understand that Barber is working from mandates. But, the execution just keeps getting more foo-foo magical.
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Re: IDW "Combiner Wars" comic discussion and speculation

Post by Sparky Prime »

Dominic wrote:Why did the "Spotlight" issue have to tie in with anything?

Why not just leave it as a more or less self-contained thing that implied Mirage had doubts (and possibly other issues) and them just move on? Did they need to give Mirage "visions" (because....what the fuck....) rather than just have him go to Cybertron (because everybody else is going anyway or something)?

I understand that Barber is working from mandates. But, the execution just keeps getting more foo-foo magical.
That Spotlight still doesn't really tie-in with anything. All Barber did was explain Mirage has some weird dreams sometimes because of a medical condition, which finally explains why that issue stands apart from the rest of the entire IDW series. Granted, I don't think the prophetic vision was necessary, but again, there is some precedent for Transformers to have such visions like Cheetor had in Beast Wars, and the way they handled it was never 'foo-foo magical'. It just happened without really any acknowledgement or explanation.
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Re: IDW "Combiner Wars" comic discussion and speculation

Post by Shockwave »

Dominic wrote:It is like IDW sat down with a list of "stupidest things in comics" and then used it as a mandate for what to do with TF. Sliding time scales? Got it. Cheap references to current events? Ayup. Idiotic McGuffins? Back-writing the McGuffin both in-story and as a cause for human civilization? You betca. And, now, going back and drawing on a self-contained and resolved one-shot? Sure, why the hell not.
And yet, month after month you tolerate exactly this same shit from the big two. I'm sorry, but that seems a little hypocritical. If you're not going to tolerate certain behaviors from one company then you shouldn't tolerate it from any company. Period. If it's a bad practice don't support it. That's like saying you hate Burger King for being too much like McDonald's. It doesn't make any sense. And in reality IDW is still doing things WAY better than the big two. Point one? IDW's big events actually stick. It's at least over a year later from Dark Cybertron and Shockwave and Bumblebee are still dead. As are many of the other characters that died in that story. Point two? Characters actually stay dead. Even characters from previous arcs are still dead. Scrapper, Thrust, Ramjet, all still dead. If this were one of the big two Dark Cybertron would already be overwritten and we'd have all of those characters back by now. Possibly even rekilled and reresrurrected a few times. THAT'S bad. That's why I dropped the big two and kept IDW. Yeah, I know there will probably be a replacement for Scrapper by the end of the year but even then, I don't think it will actually be the original Scrapper, but someone else taking the name, not unlike the Green Goblin II or what have you.

As for your complaints, I don't see them. Not sure what you mean by "sliding time scale". Events happen then events happen after those events. Time passes and so far (at least as far as I can tell) it's pretty consistent. Y'know, not like the big two where the Justice League actually gets de-aged every 15 years or are just not aging to begin with. Yeah, no, that's totally not worse.

Comics have almost always referrenced current events going all the way back to WWII, so not sure why IDW would lose points for that.

Transformers has always had macguffins, that's almost a part of what TF is. And it didn't back write anything, it just added an explaination for part of that setting that wasn't there before. That didn't directly contradict anything that was established before so it's not a back write.

And referrencing previous material is also always done in pretty much every medium... like ever.

I dunno, it just seems like you're shitting on this book just for existing or for committing some heinous crime that didn't actually happen.
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Re: IDW "Combiner Wars" comic discussion and speculation

Post by Onslaught Six »

Why did the "Spotlight" issue have to tie in with anything?
Roberts gets his rocks off by writing political diatribes and almost killing characters but not really. Barber apparently gets his rocks off by making everything fit.

I'd like to remind you that the first thing Barber wrote for the TF franchise was the Sector 7 series in the lead-up to DOTM. You remember that one? Probably not. But if you did pay attention, it specifically tried to tie together and make all the disparate movie prequel books fit. This is what Barber does.
Did they need to give Mirage "visions" (because....what the fuck....)
Mirage AND Ironhide are having the visions. Who are getting new toys as repaints in Wave 4? Could it be...Mirage and Ironhide? Guess who the other guys are? Prowl and Sunstreaker! Money says Sunstreaker will have visions soon and probably Prowl will too, and it all leads to them (stupidly) combining with Prime.
Shocktrek wrote:And yet, month after month you tolerate exactly this same shit from the big two. I'm sorry, but that seems a little hypocritical. If you're not going to tolerate certain behaviors from one company then you shouldn't tolerate it from any company. Period. If it's a bad practice don't support it.
I've been waiting to post this. Here is my impression of Dom buying comics:

"I dropped Transformers because it's too much like the big two books. I also bought every event comic that Marvel and DC are publishing this summer. These books are shit, but I have to compulsively read them, because things are happening. These things don't matter, and I can't be fucked to summarize them beyond 'things happened, people died, maybe.' But Transformers sucks right now."

Seriously, Dom. Read what you post sometime and realize how fucking insane you sound.
Comics have almost always referrenced current events going all the way back to WWII, so not sure why IDW would lose points for that.
"It dates the books." No shit Dom! Everything is "dated" by the very era and conventions that it is made in. Hama's GI Joe may hold up as a good read, but it is equally dated in terms of equipment and political climate. Terminator is laughably low-tech if you examine it from that point, but it explicitly takes place in 1984...when that technology would have been commonplace and even futuristic.

It's not an inherently bad thing, the way timetravel and alternate realities arguably aren't. Shit, MTMTE has had BOTH of those in the last year or so (the alternate Lost Light, Brainstorm time travelling) and yet it wasn't bad at all, and those are my two big comic book bullshit moments. (Primarily because when those are brought up, they're to fix or retcon something, but neither thing happened in MTMTE.)
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People spend so much time worrying about whether a figure is "mint" or not that they never stop to consider other flavours.
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Re: IDW "Combiner Wars" comic discussion and speculation

Post by Dominic »

Scrapper, Thrust, Ramjet, all still dead. I
Point on Thrust and Ramjet. But, smart money is on Scrapper coming back.

As for your complaints, I don't see them. Not sure what you mean by "sliding time scale". Events happen then events happen after those events. T
I have explained the time scale more than once. TF used to happen more less in real time. Since "Dark Cybertron", IDW has gotten more fast and loose about that, complete with moving a real world event (Occupy) back 3 years....because uh, they wanted to.

Comics have almost always referrenced current events going all the way back to WWII, so not sure why IDW would lose points for that.
Again, (as explained multiple times before), for IDW the time-slide and shallow references to current events are not only relatively new, they are obvious down-grades. I can remember a time (less than 5 years ago) when TF was not pulling that shit. With the big 2, I expect it, and am less offended (by virtue of lower expectations on that question).

Now, TF is just another comic. And, the big two are publishing other comics that happen to be better at the moment. TF has less to set it apart from, let alone above, other comics.

Transformers has always had macguffins, that's almost a part of what TF is. And it didn't back write anything, it just added an explaination for part of that setting that wasn't there before. That didn't directly contradict anything that was established before so it's not a back write.
The Enigma of Combination is an exceptionally stupid McGuffin to begin with. Back-writing it as a corner-stone in the foundation of human development is a lazy cliche that makes it even worse.

I'd like to remind you that the first thing Barber wrote for the TF franchise was the Sector 7 series in the lead-up to DOTM. You remember that one? Probably not. But if you did pay attention, it specifically tried to tie together and make all the disparate movie prequel books fit. This is what Barber does.
Papering over mistakes and inconsisties is different from going back and taking something that was self-contained and/or resolved and making it *kewl*.

"Sector 7" and other movie books that tried to reconcile inconsistencies were arguably needed. They are in the same category as Marvel's explanation for the racist Captain America of the 1950s. (And, even that ended up being made stupid later because Brubaker could not leave it alone. Had to bring back 1950s Captain America and redeem him or something.)

Mirage AND Ironhide are having the visions. Who are getting new toys as repaints in Wave 4? Could it be...Mirage and Ironhide? Guess who the other guys are? Prowl and Sunstreaker! Money says Sunstreaker will have visions soon and probably Prowl will too, and it all leads to them (stupidly) combining with Prime.
No question, Hasbro mandated that Mirage go back to Cybertron. But, IDW is pulling it off in a way that reads like a low grade comic (when IDW has previously done better).

I've been waiting to post this. Here is my impression of Dom buying comics:
Again, with TF, being like the big two is a clear (and recent) downgrade.

More importantly, if TF is going to be like the big two, there is no reason to hold it to any other standard. (I gave Costa's run or "Re-Generation One" passes on problems because they were doing things that few, if any, other books were doing.) At the moment, Marvel is doing better comics than DC or IDW. (Gonna write more about that in the comics thread.) IDW's TF comics are less unique and generally less good than they were, which is why a property that used to securely sit at the top of my pull-list is now dangling at the bottom.
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Re: IDW "Combiner Wars" comic discussion and speculation

Post by Shockwave »

Dominic wrote:
Scrapper, Thrust, Ramjet, all still dead. I
Point on Thrust and Ramjet. But, smart money is on Scrapper coming back.

As for your complaints, I don't see them. Not sure what you mean by "sliding time scale". Events happen then events happen after those events. T
I have explained the time scale more than once. TF used to happen more less in real time. Since "Dark Cybertron", IDW has gotten more fast and loose about that, complete with moving a real world event (Occupy) back 3 years....because uh, they wanted to.

Comics have almost always referrenced current events going all the way back to WWII, so not sure why IDW would lose points for that.
Again, (as explained multiple times before), for IDW the time-slide and shallow references to current events are not only relatively new, they are obvious down-grades. I can remember a time (less than 5 years ago) when TF was not pulling that shit. With the big 2, I expect it, and am less offended (by virtue of lower expectations on that question).

Now, TF is just another comic. And, the big two are publishing other comics that happen to be better at the moment. TF has less to set it apart from, let alone above, other comics.

Transformers has always had macguffins, that's almost a part of what TF is. And it didn't back write anything, it just added an explaination for part of that setting that wasn't there before. That didn't directly contradict anything that was established before so it's not a back write.
The Enigma of Combination is an exceptionally stupid McGuffin to begin with. Back-writing it as a corner-stone in the foundation of human development is a lazy cliche that makes it even worse.

I'd like to remind you that the first thing Barber wrote for the TF franchise was the Sector 7 series in the lead-up to DOTM. You remember that one? Probably not. But if you did pay attention, it specifically tried to tie together and make all the disparate movie prequel books fit. This is what Barber does.
Papering over mistakes and inconsisties is different from going back and taking something that was self-contained and/or resolved and making it *kewl*.

"Sector 7" and other movie books that tried to reconcile inconsistencies were arguably needed. They are in the same category as Marvel's explanation for the racist Captain America of the 1950s. (And, even that ended up being made stupid later because Brubaker could not leave it alone. Had to bring back 1950s Captain America and redeem him or something.)

Mirage AND Ironhide are having the visions. Who are getting new toys as repaints in Wave 4? Could it be...Mirage and Ironhide? Guess who the other guys are? Prowl and Sunstreaker! Money says Sunstreaker will have visions soon and probably Prowl will too, and it all leads to them (stupidly) combining with Prime.
No question, Hasbro mandated that Mirage go back to Cybertron. But, IDW is pulling it off in a way that reads like a low grade comic (when IDW has previously done better).

I've been waiting to post this. Here is my impression of Dom buying comics:
Again, with TF, being like the big two is a clear (and recent) downgrade.

More importantly, if TF is going to be like the big two, there is no reason to hold it to any other standard. (I gave Costa's run or "Re-Generation One" passes on problems because they were doing things that few, if any, other books were doing.) At the moment, Marvel is doing better comics than DC or IDW. (Gonna write more about that in the comics thread.) IDW's TF comics are less unique and generally less good than they were, which is why a property that used to securely sit at the top of my pull-list is now dangling at the bottom.
Scrapper's not "coming back". There will be another, different, new Scrapper, sure, but the original is still dead and staying that way. Those are two different things.

And, I'm sorry, you can't have this both ways without sounding like a hypocritical prat. If TF really is "just another comic" then you have to treat it with the same standards as you do every other comic. And really saying that you "expect it from the big two" is not a justification for having a double standard. And besides, as I pointed out above, even with the few (and it really is a few) similarities in what IDW has done with TF, they're still doing way better than either of the big two. I won't even touch a story from either of them on general principal until they get their shit together or just fucking fail completely. Nothing I read from them will matter later so what's the point of reading it to begin with? It doesn't matter if the stories are good because the stories don't matter. They are literally putting out paper Teflon every month and I'm not going to support that. But I don't feel that with TF. When I read TF, I know that what I just read is going to still have mattered a year later. When a character dies, I know they are going to stay dead and even if they do introduce a new version (again, which is not the same as bringing back the dead one), it's going to be a long long time before that happens. Go ahead, give me an example of one book from the big two that you think is currently better than current TF. I guarantee you it will not matter a year from now. What's going on in Combiner Wars will still be relevant.
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Re: IDW "Combiner Wars" comic discussion and speculation

Post by Dominic »

And, I'm sorry, you can't have this both ways without sounding like a hypocritical prat. If TF really is "just another comic" then you have to treat it with the same standards as you do every other comic.
For whatever reason, you consistently ignore the part where I say that time-slides and other generic comic tricks (like stasis quo) are relativley new downgrades for "Transformers".

Think of it like this, you have 3 kids, a smart kid and two idiots. One day, the smart one starts acting like his/her two idiot siblings. You are more likely to yell at the smart one for being newly stupid than at the two idiots for being consistently stupid.

Nothing I read from them will matter later so what's the point of reading it to begin with? It doesn't matter if the stories are good because the stories don't matter.
I agree that the odds or a Marvel or DC story sticking are low. (When "Crisis on Infinite Earths" ended up getting down-graded to "a partial collapse of the multiverse" from "everything is gone never coming back", you know that nothing is going to stick.) And, at a basic "stuff wut happunz" level, that is a problem. But, that is also why I tend to read comics for concept or creator more than plot or character.

(To be perfectly honest, I hope that Gillen's run on "Iron Man" ends up not counting after "Secret Wars" so it does not end up getting followed up on and terdified later.)

Current TF is not impressing me much with concept or creators at the moment. And, it is becoming more of a generic comic in plot terms. They brought in an idiotic time-slide (and managed to do a bad job of extablishing it because it requires moving a real world event back several years). There are more back-writes and idiotic McGuffins. (Besides the Enigma of Combination being unnecessary to being in combiners, it also ended up being used in the most idiotic and cliched way, specifically as an explanation for human advancement, because Barber is writing like it is 35+ years ago.)

A number of dead characters have been raised. (The fact that this lincludes c-listers like Nightbeat makes it even worse. Even c-listers cannot stay dead apparently.) Other characters have been set back to spec. (Optimus is leading the Autobots again, and was recently fighting Decepticons on Earth. Sunstreaker, Mirage and Ironhide are all happy Autobots on the same team. Yadda yadda yadda....)

Scrapper's not "coming back". There will be another, different, new Scrapper, sure, but the original is still dead and staying that way. Those are two different things.
Jury is still out on this. We know that there is a $100+ Devastator figure coming out this year. That all but guarantees Devastator (sans Prowl) is going to be in the comics. There have been references to Scrapper (or some remnant of Scrapper) being inside Devastator. And, the relevant characters are going to be near a magical McGuffin. I am almost willing to bet that Scrapper will be back before "Combiner Wars" ends.)
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