Transformers - ongoing series

[Mako Crab]

For a high bar, I usually look to the Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex (season 1, can't really say for season 2). I know they're two very different types of shows, with very different demographics that they're aiming for, but GitS still stands as my high water mark as far as animated sci-fi action shows go. And as I said- I do think Costa is writing higher than is the norm for Transformers. I mean, just compare TF ongoing to the UT. Although, I feel he merely skims the surface of some of the issues he teases, rather than exploring them too deeply.

But uh. . . for example . . .

GitS getting deep. Yeah, baby! And with a bit of humor to the whole scene, no less.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN50ENE_HUU

Now before you call it an unfair comparison, I know, and I get it. I know it's not fair. GitS is aimed towards teens and adults. Transformers is aimed towards kids. I never expect TFs to get all dramatic or philosophical to the degree that GitS does. I'm just saying, I consider it to be my own personal high bar.

[Onslaught Six]

Related.

That aside, I am still disappointed that we never got to see Starscream actually do anything as leader. At this point, I feel uninterested in watching him plot behind Megatron's back, because I know that he'll never do anything if and when he gets leadership.

You know what? This is why Reign of Starscream was good. That book makes MovieScream out to be at least as competent, if not moreso, than his universe's Megatron.

And while Costa's writing may be considered high in comparison to what the franchise has delivered before, I don't consider it high in general. It's alright. I'll continue to give the book a chance. You've convinced me.

You gotta be looking at the book the way Dom is looking at it. Dom swears that this whole TFs-are-actually-functionally-retarded thing is being addressed and used as a real concept in the book, while I'm not exactly convinced.

[Dominic]

What evidence would you need to convince you of that O6? Costa has characters brining it up, in context. The TFs inability to make real changes, (beyond a basic tactical level), is a huge part of this book.

[Mako Crab]

So my options are- Costa is adhering to the status quo and nothing's really going to change character-wise, OR. . . the Transformers are functionally retarded. Great

[andersonh1]

I had a slightly different take on it than Dom, which was that the Transformers' inability to change is related to their very long lifespans, and the fact that they probably see the passage of time differently than the comparatively short-lived humans do. They're very comfortable with establishing a routine and sticking with it without feeling the need for change. Unless some major event comes along to force a change.

It makes sense to me. A race of beings who are practically immortal would have to be content with the same old same old for year after year, or else they'd go crazy with boredom, because if they constantly needed change and new and interesting stimuli, they'd long since have run out of new things to do and see.

So when they get into the war, they soon settle in and adjust to doing the same things and following the same leader and in essence get comfortable with a life of trying to kill members of the opposing faction. To the point where that's all they know how to do any more. Their whole society revolves around winning the war, somehow.

[Dominic]

Costa is using the idea that TFs are functionally retarded to reconcilethe lack of change. But, that effectively changes the status quo. (Optimus, Thundercracker and Prowl are actively trying to change.)

I would have to disagree with Shockwave. While I agree that a long lifespan might foster a degree of laziness, (the moral hazard and all that), there would still be some kind of visible learning curve. Just by living, one learns new things. Even with written language, (to say nothing of modern archiving and filing techniques), huge amounts of data and experience are lost, especially when an expert in something dies.

Transformers would not have that problem. And, especially in IDW, they would be consistently exposed to new intellectual capital and ideas. Shame on them for not changing more over time. Shame!

Dom
-would likely provide a better answer if not fot he crushing fatigue.

[andersonh1]

Costa is using the idea that TFs are functionally retarded to reconcile the lack of change.

Except that they're not retarded. They're clearly intelligent enough to adapt and change over time. Just not quickly enough when the war ends, but they're still looking for an enemy to fight. That was Prime's main complaint, if you'll remember, that he seemed unable to lead the Autobots through peacetime. He hoped that in his absence, they'd be able to change.

I would have to disagree with Shockwave. While I agree that a long lifespan might foster a degree of laziness, (the moral hazard and all that), there would still be some kind of visible learning curve.

And there is. But that doesn't mean the curve can't be very slow and gradual in its arc, so to speak.

[Dominic]

The learning curve in this case is very slow, even allowing for their longer life spans. The problem is more than just simple habit. It is a problem of basic cognition.

Dom
-very tired.

[Shockwave]

Dom, you must be tired. I wasn't the one who commented on change over time, Anderson was. But for what it's worth I happen to agree with him. The TFs aren't retarded, they're having trouble adapting to a post war mindset. Course, with Megatron back online they may not have to anymore.

[Dominic]

And, that is what you call a legitimate misreading.


Okay....

I think Costa is trying to show that TFs are cognatively stunted. Look at Thundercracker's musings in issue 4. He is musing directly on how little TFs have changed over time at a deeper level than just blaming the war. TFs can adapt tactically, but have diffculty changing at a strategic level. Prowl is an ecample of this.