TF Views

Ironically, I am going right past the store today. But, I will be on my way to a stand-out (for a campaign), and probably will not be able to get in to the store. Tomorrow, I have errands to run. Even if I have time to pop in and buy my stuff (yay, payday!), I might not have time to make adjustments to my pull-file. (I think that I need to be there in person to maket he changes, which rules out calling them.)

My priority now is to pick up the "Transformers: Legacy" art book and "Multiversity". After that, I plan to get started on "Earth 2" and make my final decision. In all likelihood, I am dropping the book. But, I have a few weeks's worth sitting in my pull-file, so I may as well give it a fair shot.

BWprowl wrote:And she's still alive, it was just some of her supporting cast that got offed. If anything, you'd think those fans of Spider-Girl would be excited to see her again, being brought into a big, relevant, mainline story besides.

They weren't just any supporting characters though. They were pretty significant characters to both the story and Mayday. Her whole world has significantly changed with their deaths. Just seeing Spider-Girl again doesn't negate that.

Him I didn't see, though Spider-Man Unlimited was confirmed as killed in the same issue as And His Amazing Friends bit the dust. But it was always a bit nebulous if Spidey TAS and Spidey Unlimited were in the same continuity.

As I recall, Spider-Man Unlimited has always been said to be in the same continuity.

Sparky Prime wrote:They weren't just any supporting characters though. They were pretty significant characters to both the story and Mayday. Her whole world has significantly changed with their deaths. Just seeing Spider-Girl again doesn't negate that.

The same goes for literally every character appearing in this series though. That's just, y'know, how comics, and stories in general work. Some (minor, alt-universe, not-seen-in-years) characters are going to get killed off in the lead up to a bigger event.

And it's not like they can't be wanked back to life at the end of this story, or in a later one. It's really ridiculous to get so upset about this sort of thing.

As I recall, Spider-Man Unlimited has always been said to be in the same continuity.

Said where? Admittedly I only just skimmed the Wikipedia article, but there's absolutely nothing there about the two shows being connected. Furthermore, it'd be hard to reconcile the ending of Spider-Man TAS (Spidey and Madame Web journey through dimensions to find the real Mary-Jane) with the stock beginning of Unlimited, not to mention Venom and Carnage's appearance and portrayals: Both of them were lost in Dormammu's dimension when last seen in TAS, with Venom having reformed and not wanting to work with Carnage. The beginning of Unlimited has them both around just fine and working together. It really doesn't work.

Multiversity: The Just #1
This is the "heroes of the 90s/legacy heroes" issue, and my only real gripe is the long conversation between Batman/Damien and Alexis Luthor at the beginning, which drags on for quite a bit. Otherwise it's another fun alternate universe trek with some previously existing characters and some that I think Morrison has created. The only old timer is Ray Palmer/The Atom. Everyone else is either a child or grandchild of DC's big name heroes. So we've got Damien Wayne/Batman, Chris Kent/Superman, Kyle Rayner (in his original GL costume) as the sole GL in this universe, Wally West/Flash, Connor Hawke/Green Arrow, Garth/Aquaman, Pieter Cross/Dr. Mid-Nite, and so on. Bloodwynd and Gypsy turn up as well. If you're a Kyle fan, he gets a decent amount of time in this issue, and his girlfriend's death by being stuffed in the fridge is referenced. Wally gets a few lines, but we never even see him without his mask. Jakeem Thunder also shows up for a few panels, as does Bart Allen/Impulse. It sounds very cluttered, but the focus of the story is on a few characters, with the rest just getting a line or a scene here and there, so it's actually not bad.

The whole thing is a "superhero as bored celebrity" riff, with crime having long since been nearly ended on this Earth, you have a bunch of super-heroes with nothing to do and no reason for their powers. As far as the overall plot of Multiversity, it seems to be the case that the so-called haunted comic book "infects" whoever reads it. It's a stealth invasion of the multiverse, one Earth at a time, one person at a time. To what end, we don't know yet.

Future's End #25
More stuff happens, more Brainiac drones get hit, and the dull plots are mixed in with the good ones, just like before. In a book like this it's tempting to just skip the stuff I don't like and read the pages I'm actually interested in. Superman fights another type of Brainiac drone and beats it, only to have Constantine tell him how stupid he is. Still not a fan of Constantine. But according to him, Superman has never once met the real Brainiac, which presumably is the huge guy introduced a few issues ago. Every appearance ever has been one of his drones. Constantine says that Brainiac is a god, existing outside space and time, but that he's afraid of Superman, which Constantine can't figure out.

So, more of the same. To read the plots that interest me, I have to buy the ones that don't. It's very much like Brightest Day, except just about every plotline there had a character I enjoyed reading about. I don't mind, except that it always seems like the good stuff gets started, gets a head of steam, and then it's done until next time. At least with a weekly book it's not a long wait.

BWprowl wrote:The same goes for literally every character appearing in this series though. That's just, y'know, how comics, and stories in general work. Some (minor, alt-universe, not-seen-in-years) characters are going to get killed off in the lead up to a bigger event.

I wouldn't say the same goes for every character. Not all of them have suffered loved ones being killed of like that in this series. And that still doesn't change the fact that some people are going to voice their feelings when/if characters are killed off, regardless of the comics or stories in general.

And it's not like they can't be wanked back to life at the end of this story, or in a later one. It's really ridiculous to get so upset about this sort of thing.

We don't know what might happen though. For all we know, that's it, they're all dead and wont be coming back. And while you might feel it's ridiculous to get upset over a characters death, there are those out there that have a different opinion.

Said where? Admittedly I only just skimmed the Wikipedia article, but there's absolutely nothing there about the two shows being connected. Furthermore, it'd be hard to reconcile the ending of Spider-Man TAS (Spidey and Madame Web journey through dimensions to find the real Mary-Jane) with the stock beginning of Unlimited, not to mention Venom and Carnage's appearance and portrayals: Both of them were lost in Dormammu's dimension when last seen in TAS, with Venom having reformed and not wanting to work with Carnage. The beginning of Unlimited has them both around just fine and working together. It really doesn't work.

Pretty much all the promotional materials around the time the series premiered said as much from what I remember. And it's not that hard to reconcile the ending. Clearly Madam Web helped Spidey find MJ and some time had passed between the series. Within that time Carnage and Venom could have returned. And one of the Unlimited episodes kinda covers Venom's change of heart when Eddie is briefly separated from the symbiote.

Sparky Prime wrote:Pretty much all the promotional materials around the time the series premiered said as much from what I remember. And it's not that hard to reconcile the ending. Clearly Madam Web helped Spidey find MJ and some time had passed between the series. Within that time Carnage and Venom could have returned. And one of the Unlimited episodes kinda covers Venom's change of heart when Eddie is briefly separated from the symbiote.

"From what I can remember" and fanon explanations reconciling things ain't good enough. Find something official stating that the two are the same canon and we'll talk. Otherwise, no dice.

BWprowl wrote:"From what I can remember" and fanon explanations reconciling things ain't good enough. Find something official stating that the two are the same canon and we'll talk. Otherwise, no dice.

So you just skim a wiki page that says absolutely nothing about it, yet somehow that's good enough for your own argument? Maybe you should actually do some of your own research to find something that actually says something about the subject. But if it's something official you want, how about the cartoon itself? Unlimited actually has some direct links to the previous series in it. The episode which I previously mentioned where Eddie is separated from the symbiote for example. Peter recalls when he first met the symbiote: after John Jameson's shuttle crashed on the Brooklyn Bridge. An origin for the symbiote that *ONLY* the 90's animated series has ever depicted. Course the flashback also changes some events with Carnage's origins, but given the whole Dormammu's magic portals to other realms thing, I think it's understandable they gloss over that part for the sake of simplicity. And as I'd also explained, that you dismissed as fanon, that episode explains why Venom is working with Carnage.

Batman ’66 #16
Egghead unleashed!!! Oh noes!!!

This particular situation has Egghead (who was played by Vincent Price, right?) deciding that he needs to be a super genius and so he advances his intellect until he’s a “40th century human”. He is now so mentally advanced that he is telekinetic and telepathic. He breaks in on crimes being committed by Mr. Freeze and the Riddler and takes the cash they stole. He encases Chief O’Hara in pavement. And he turns Batman and Robin into Neanderthals. Thankfully they still have their intellect, which Batman decides is proof that Neanderthals were as intelligent as modern man. Sadly, poor Egghead is unhappy now that he’s so much more intelligent than everyone around him. Batman and Robin are able to trick him and regress him back to his former state, with Egghead much happier now that he has some intellectual equals again… nearly.

This series has become a little more sedate lately, though it still has its share of funny lines and absurd situations. According to the sales charts over at The Beat, it’s still selling around 17,000 copies a month, with Batman 66 vs. the Green Hornet hitting around 24,000 copies. I guess I’m surprised that there continues to be a market for this version of Batman in 2014, but I’m glad there is since the series has been so much fun.

They weren't just any supporting characters though. They were pretty significant characters to both the story and Mayday. Her whole world has significantly changed with their deaths. Just seeing Spider-Girl again doesn't negate that.

They were supporting cast in a secondary title that had been cancelled for several years.

And it's not like they can't be wanked back to life at the end of this story, or in a later one.

That would be stupid, and also unlikely. Usually, this sort of "getting killed off" tends to stick because the point is to remove a character.

However, I do agree that fans need to get the hell over it.

As I recall, Spider-Man Unlimited has always been said to be in the same continuity.

Yes and no. There are likely official sources that say yes. But, it is one of those cases where the official sources do not make sense. (Plenty of examples of this in TF, such as the Constructicons having 3 origins in the cartoon.)

As far as the overall plot of Multiversity, it seems to be the case that the so-called haunted comic book "infects" whoever reads it. It's a stealth invasion of the multiverse, one Earth at a time, one person at a time. To what end, we don't know yet.

Gonna pick this up either today or over the weekend (time allowing).

Information spreading virally and changing those who receive it was a theme in "Final Crisis", so it makes sense for it to be a question in "Multiversity".

Sparky Prime wrote:So you just skim a wiki page that says absolutely nothing about it, yet somehow that's good enough for your own argument? Maybe you should actually do some of your own research to find something that actually says something about the subject.

Hey, an encyclopedia page on the subject is definitely more water-tight than vague memories of blurbs. Besides, you were the one asserting that the series were linked, so burden of proof and all that. But gimme a second here, I owe you an apology.

But if it's something official you want, how about the cartoon itself? Unlimited actually has some direct links to the previous series in it. The episode which I previously mentioned where Eddie is separated from the symbiote for example. Peter recalls when he first met the symbiote: after John Jameson's shuttle crashed on the Brooklyn Bridge. An origin for the symbiote that *ONLY* the 90's animated series has ever depicted. Course the flashback also changes some events with Carnage's origins, but given the whole Dormammu's magic portals to other realms thing, I think it's understandable they gloss over that part for the sake of simplicity. And as I'd also explained, that you dismissed as fanon, that episode explains why Venom is working with Carnage.

There's this, and I also did some searching around myself. Turns out, there is in fact an interview in Wizard (I can re-find and post the exact # and article later this evening) with one of the show's creators where they express that the series is intended to fit into continuity with Spidey TAS (bizarrely, before the actual finale of that show. The whole thing was *supposed* to end with Peter finding his way back to Earth in time for the wedding episode of TAS, which would mean that the Mary-Jane he's apparently seen with in the first episode of Unlimited is actually the fake Hydro-MJ). So yeah, match point Sparky.

Waaaah they killed off the 90's animated Spider-Man! Why are you such a meanie, Mr. Slott!