No, actually, post-Crisis DC was even more of a mess. Superman got the hard reboot right away, because he's f'in Superman, but then you had guys who didn't get their reset until months or even a year later, so for a whole year they were still walking around like nothing happened. Ridiculous.Dominic wrote:The exact same thing happened in '85. There was a hard reset, some stuff got blown away. Some stuff did not. If anythign, DC was even less clear about what counted. About 6 months after CoIE ended, most of the book (including stuff established as happening/counting after the reset) was over-written. There was plenty of feckless editing the 80s. But, there was no internet echo-chamber for people to complain in to, so even comic fans had to get over it.
Comics are Awesome III
-
Onslaught Six
- Supreme-Class
- Posts: 7023
- Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:49 am
- Location: In front of my computer.
- Contact:
Re: Comics are Awesome III
People spend so much time worrying about whether a figure is "mint" or not that they never stop to consider other flavours.BWprowl wrote:The internet having this many different words to describe nerdy folks is akin to the whole eskimos/ice situation, I would presume.
Re: Comics are Awesome III
Edge of Spider-Verse:
Marvel's current trend of "being more like DC than DC" continues with "Spider-Verse". The high concept is that some multiversal hopping threat is wiping out variants of Spider-Man. Superior Spider-Man manages to avoid being killed and sets about assembling a Spider-army to counter the existential threat. In practical terms, it is not wholly dis-similar from Morrison's army of Supermen from "Final Crisis".
Slott is likely going to pick up some of the concepts and themes from his run on "Superior Spider-Man". And, he is apparently having fun poking at fans by killing off C and D list characters (or C and D list variants of characters). The problem is that "Edge of Spider-Verse" is a 10 part prelude to the main event. The prelude alternate Slott-written set-up (which reaches slasher movie levels of predictability) with one-shots introducing new Spider-variants (essentially replacing the old C and D listers with new C and D listers). The one-shots vary in tone and quality. Over-all, it is not specifically bad. But, it is over-whelming, especially for how little it is actually delivering.
Not likely to be sticking with this.
But....
"Earth 2" has been limping along with two strikes against it for about 6 months or so. It has not been very good for a year (if not a bit more). I set a very low bar for "Earth 2", effectively meaning I just read it at a very basic "stuff wut happunz" level. That is the only thing "Earth 2" needed to do well, and it has not done so.
Now, "Earth 2" is getting pulled in to a big damned deal weekly book that is not only heading to a cross-over (in the nearish future) with another weekly book, but it is also dove-tailing with "Worlds' Finest", which is nigh-unreadable. (Why the hell is Levitz still on that book? He was supposed to be gone by August.) And, it is unlikely that "Earth 2" is going to last much past the upcoming DC "Crisis" for next year, less likely that it will improve in the time it has left. (If anything, I expect a predictable house-cleaning, as redundant characters are swept away and other characters are set to retro-spec in anticipation of the next "Crisis".)
I have yet to do more than fli[p through a few issues of "Future's End". I have not read "World's End", and have left the last issues of "Earth 2" and "World's Finest" in my pull-file, hoping that a short absence would make my appreciation for the books grow.
But, ultimately, expecting me to sign on for even one weekly book (to say nothing of two) and to read "Worlds' Finest"* is a far cry from getting me to stick with a single lack-luster book. Putting aside the money question (10 books per month, at $3 bucks each), that is simply a large number of books. That is double my pull-file, on top of my existing pull-file. That requires me to actively have more faith in a series, in DC as a company, than I can reasonably have.
At some point in the next few weeks, I plan to catch up on "World's End" and to start reading "Future's End", along with "Earth 2" and "World's Finest". And, I need to be impressed with the comics, not the concept. I will treat this as I treated "Dark Cybertron", (effectively reading "More than Meets the Eye" and "Robots in Disguise" as one book for 6 months). But, a book that is twice weekly needs to *impress* me. ("World's Finest" is likely to be a problem here.)
I have given "Earth 2" over a year to improve, and it has gotten steadily worse. It made a center-piece of a fanfic grade character. (The one good thing likely to come out of "World's End" is that Thomas Wayne is all but guaranteed to be killed off in a house-cleaning.) It spent a year on an inarticulate cliche of an arc, and ended that arc on an even less articulate cliche. (Evil Superman is just a clone of Superman....) It hard to blame Taylor for the problems, as he has proven he can write with "Injustice", and all too easy to blame DC editorial (for acting consistently with expectations of late).
I am done waiting for "Earth 2" to be better (especially given the low bar I have set). It needs to be better.
*Seriously, DC and Levitz did an impressive job of making me hate a book featuring the Huntress, a character that I should be giddy over simply for the concept.
Marvel's current trend of "being more like DC than DC" continues with "Spider-Verse". The high concept is that some multiversal hopping threat is wiping out variants of Spider-Man. Superior Spider-Man manages to avoid being killed and sets about assembling a Spider-army to counter the existential threat. In practical terms, it is not wholly dis-similar from Morrison's army of Supermen from "Final Crisis".
Slott is likely going to pick up some of the concepts and themes from his run on "Superior Spider-Man". And, he is apparently having fun poking at fans by killing off C and D list characters (or C and D list variants of characters). The problem is that "Edge of Spider-Verse" is a 10 part prelude to the main event. The prelude alternate Slott-written set-up (which reaches slasher movie levels of predictability) with one-shots introducing new Spider-variants (essentially replacing the old C and D listers with new C and D listers). The one-shots vary in tone and quality. Over-all, it is not specifically bad. But, it is over-whelming, especially for how little it is actually delivering.
Not likely to be sticking with this.
Apparently, I am subscribed to "Future's End" now. The store auto-added "Future's End" to my pull-file. Objectively, this sort of thing is a good idea. (I have certainly not complained when it involved adding a book to compliment another book that I was happy with.) And, based on what I have been seeing in CSN and elsewhere (including "next issue" solicits), it is valid.Future’s End #24
But....
"Earth 2" has been limping along with two strikes against it for about 6 months or so. It has not been very good for a year (if not a bit more). I set a very low bar for "Earth 2", effectively meaning I just read it at a very basic "stuff wut happunz" level. That is the only thing "Earth 2" needed to do well, and it has not done so.
Now, "Earth 2" is getting pulled in to a big damned deal weekly book that is not only heading to a cross-over (in the nearish future) with another weekly book, but it is also dove-tailing with "Worlds' Finest", which is nigh-unreadable. (Why the hell is Levitz still on that book? He was supposed to be gone by August.) And, it is unlikely that "Earth 2" is going to last much past the upcoming DC "Crisis" for next year, less likely that it will improve in the time it has left. (If anything, I expect a predictable house-cleaning, as redundant characters are swept away and other characters are set to retro-spec in anticipation of the next "Crisis".)
I have yet to do more than fli[p through a few issues of "Future's End". I have not read "World's End", and have left the last issues of "Earth 2" and "World's Finest" in my pull-file, hoping that a short absence would make my appreciation for the books grow.
But, ultimately, expecting me to sign on for even one weekly book (to say nothing of two) and to read "Worlds' Finest"* is a far cry from getting me to stick with a single lack-luster book. Putting aside the money question (10 books per month, at $3 bucks each), that is simply a large number of books. That is double my pull-file, on top of my existing pull-file. That requires me to actively have more faith in a series, in DC as a company, than I can reasonably have.
At some point in the next few weeks, I plan to catch up on "World's End" and to start reading "Future's End", along with "Earth 2" and "World's Finest". And, I need to be impressed with the comics, not the concept. I will treat this as I treated "Dark Cybertron", (effectively reading "More than Meets the Eye" and "Robots in Disguise" as one book for 6 months). But, a book that is twice weekly needs to *impress* me. ("World's Finest" is likely to be a problem here.)
I have given "Earth 2" over a year to improve, and it has gotten steadily worse. It made a center-piece of a fanfic grade character. (The one good thing likely to come out of "World's End" is that Thomas Wayne is all but guaranteed to be killed off in a house-cleaning.) It spent a year on an inarticulate cliche of an arc, and ended that arc on an even less articulate cliche. (Evil Superman is just a clone of Superman....) It hard to blame Taylor for the problems, as he has proven he can write with "Injustice", and all too easy to blame DC editorial (for acting consistently with expectations of late).
I am done waiting for "Earth 2" to be better (especially given the low bar I have set). It needs to be better.
*Seriously, DC and Levitz did an impressive job of making me hate a book featuring the Huntress, a character that I should be giddy over simply for the concept.
-
andersonh1
- Moderator
- Posts: 6478
- Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:22 pm
- Location: South Carolina
Re: Comics are Awesome III
Dom, I'm wondering how Earth 2 can even survive as a book or concept, considering that everything seems to point towards it being destroyed in this upcoming war mentioned in Future's End. I suppose we could get to the end of that and have it all be a big fakeout.
Ever notice how many wars have happened or will supposedly happen in the New 52? Earth 2 and Justice League both opened with Darkseid making war on the Earth. Then we got Trinity War, and we're starting to get the war with Earth 2 and Earth Prime or whatever it is now. The future Darkseid-Anti-Monitor war is on the horizon. Whatever happened to superheroes just fighting crime and trying to live a normal life in between adventures?
Ever notice how many wars have happened or will supposedly happen in the New 52? Earth 2 and Justice League both opened with Darkseid making war on the Earth. Then we got Trinity War, and we're starting to get the war with Earth 2 and Earth Prime or whatever it is now. The future Darkseid-Anti-Monitor war is on the horizon. Whatever happened to superheroes just fighting crime and trying to live a normal life in between adventures?
-
Sparky Prime
- Supreme-Class
- Posts: 5328
- Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:12 am
Re: Comics are Awesome III
We still see superheroes fighting crime and trying to live a normal life... in their own titles. Group and event titles aren't really about that dynamic. Although Justice League did show Superman and Wonder Woman go out on a date as two civilians that one time...andersonh1 wrote:Ever notice how many wars have happened or will supposedly happen in the New 52? Earth 2 and Justice League both opened with Darkseid making war on the Earth. Then we got Trinity War, and we're starting to get the war with Earth 2 and Earth Prime or whatever it is now. The future Darkseid-Anti-Monitor war is on the horizon. Whatever happened to superheroes just fighting crime and trying to live a normal life in between adventures?
Re: Comics are Awesome III
It depends on the book. Daredevil is pretty consistently "street level", as is Batman.
But, "the characters having adventures and doing stuff" is tedious unless the writer actually has something to say. Bendis dropped down and off my "must read" list specifically because he does not have much to say. He can write. But, he is light on ideas. This applies to cosmic or street-level titles.
As for DC specifically, they are using events to hide a lack of ideas. The New 52 is collapsing under the weight of feckless editors who are actively hobbling talented writers.
Like I said, I tend to think that "World's End" (and related issues of "Future's End") will more or less consist of a house cleaning. DC introduced a new Huntress and Power Girl in recent issues of "Worlds' Finest", meaning Kara and Helena might be getting whacked. Green Lantern and Flash were notably absent from the "Future's End" tie-in issue.
My prediction is that "Earth 2" will be destroyed in "World's End", which is going to wrap up before/during DC's upcoming "Crisis" story. Characters like modern Jay Garrick or Alan Scott, both unlikely to have a place post-"Crisis", will be killed off. Characters like Holt, likely to have a place post-"Crisis", will be carry over to Earth 0 in time for the next big back-write.
DC might launch a new alternate time-line book featuring the JSA (hinted at in "Doomed" and some of the other lead in to the upcoming "Crisis"). It is unlikely to call back to WWII. But, it will probably feature retired/aged heroes and their successors. (One panel of the lead in clearly shows and older Jay "Flash" Garrick and Helena "Huntress" Wayne in the background.) If it happens, that book will probably the replacement for "Earth 2".
Given how bad "Earth 2" has gotten (and the low odds of it getting better before ending), it is hard to be terribly upset by this prospect.
Of course, a mass reboot away from "New 52" is not going to solve DC's editorial problems.
But, "the characters having adventures and doing stuff" is tedious unless the writer actually has something to say. Bendis dropped down and off my "must read" list specifically because he does not have much to say. He can write. But, he is light on ideas. This applies to cosmic or street-level titles.
As for DC specifically, they are using events to hide a lack of ideas. The New 52 is collapsing under the weight of feckless editors who are actively hobbling talented writers.
Smart money is on "Earth 2" ending early next year.Dom, I'm wondering how Earth 2 can even survive as a book or concept, considering that everything seems to point towards it being destroyed in this upcoming war mentioned in Future's End. I suppose we could get to the end of that and have it all be a big fakeout.
Like I said, I tend to think that "World's End" (and related issues of "Future's End") will more or less consist of a house cleaning. DC introduced a new Huntress and Power Girl in recent issues of "Worlds' Finest", meaning Kara and Helena might be getting whacked. Green Lantern and Flash were notably absent from the "Future's End" tie-in issue.
My prediction is that "Earth 2" will be destroyed in "World's End", which is going to wrap up before/during DC's upcoming "Crisis" story. Characters like modern Jay Garrick or Alan Scott, both unlikely to have a place post-"Crisis", will be killed off. Characters like Holt, likely to have a place post-"Crisis", will be carry over to Earth 0 in time for the next big back-write.
DC might launch a new alternate time-line book featuring the JSA (hinted at in "Doomed" and some of the other lead in to the upcoming "Crisis"). It is unlikely to call back to WWII. But, it will probably feature retired/aged heroes and their successors. (One panel of the lead in clearly shows and older Jay "Flash" Garrick and Helena "Huntress" Wayne in the background.) If it happens, that book will probably the replacement for "Earth 2".
Given how bad "Earth 2" has gotten (and the low odds of it getting better before ending), it is hard to be terribly upset by this prospect.
Of course, a mass reboot away from "New 52" is not going to solve DC's editorial problems.
-
Sparky Prime
- Supreme-Class
- Posts: 5328
- Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:12 am
Re: Comics are Awesome III
Wasn't it not that long ago they had Matt Murdock trying to distance himself from Dardevil to protect his secret identity?Dominic wrote:It depends on the book. Daredevil is pretty consistently "street level", as is Batman.
-
andersonh1
- Moderator
- Posts: 6478
- Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:22 pm
- Location: South Carolina
Re: Comics are Awesome III
Yeah, but in the last issue of the previous volume, he admitted that he was Daredevil in open court and the secret, such as it was, is now public. So he left New York and went to San Fransisco.Sparky Prime wrote:Wasn't it not that long ago they had Matt Murdock trying to distance himself from Dardevil to protect his secret identity?Dominic wrote:It depends on the book. Daredevil is pretty consistently "street level", as is Batman.
I quit reading when they restarted the book with the same writer and artist, but went back to a new "first" issue and added a dollar to the price. So I don't know what's happened since then. Too bad, that was a good series.
Re: Comics are Awesome III
Why did you drop a good book for a sight price hike? That makes no sense.
No comics this week until Friday (if not the weekend, schedule allowing). (Planning to pick up the "Transformers: Legacy" art book, maybe some other stuff.)
Heard today that Costa is on a new "GI Joe" book (along with an upcoming "Spider-Verse" tie-in). So much for cutting my pull file this year. (This means that any chance "Earth 2" had of not getting dropped just shrank to near nothing.)
Costa dropped the ball at the end of "Cobra Files" (not killing Flint, or by not avoiding a situation where Flint should have died), but he still impressed me enough that I will go back for his writing on a property that he is clearly comfortable with. (Costa admits struggling with non-humans and super-humans.)
"Amazing Spider-Man" #8 had an epic troll from Marvel/Slott, They were c-listers. But, the fans were raging from the preview.
Current pull file:
-TF: More than Meets the Eye
-TF; Robots in Disguise
-Multiversity
-Earth 2
The latter is likely to be dropped soon. But, it is still on there as of right now.
Upcoming books of interest:
-Superior Iron Man (I already subscribed. But, the book has not launched yet.)
-GI Joe: Snake Eyes (The Costa book.)
-Scarlet Spiders
-Star Wars: Darth Vader (Kieron Gillen writing might be enough to draw me back to the dark side.)
-various Avengers books (Marvel has something in store, and the books themselves are excellent.)
-DC Crisis (This is getting more likely, but my interest is mostly curiosity about what comes next.)
-Transformers: Empire of Stone (McCarthy writing Drift. Put this in the same category as "Superior Iron Man".)
No comics this week until Friday (if not the weekend, schedule allowing). (Planning to pick up the "Transformers: Legacy" art book, maybe some other stuff.)
Heard today that Costa is on a new "GI Joe" book (along with an upcoming "Spider-Verse" tie-in). So much for cutting my pull file this year. (This means that any chance "Earth 2" had of not getting dropped just shrank to near nothing.)
Costa dropped the ball at the end of "Cobra Files" (not killing Flint, or by not avoiding a situation where Flint should have died), but he still impressed me enough that I will go back for his writing on a property that he is clearly comfortable with. (Costa admits struggling with non-humans and super-humans.)
"Amazing Spider-Man" #8 had an epic troll from Marvel/Slott,
Spoiler
killing the MC2 Peter Parker, MJ and another supporting character from "Spider-Girl".
Current pull file:
-TF: More than Meets the Eye
-TF; Robots in Disguise
-Multiversity
-Earth 2
The latter is likely to be dropped soon. But, it is still on there as of right now.
Upcoming books of interest:
-Superior Iron Man (I already subscribed. But, the book has not launched yet.)
-GI Joe: Snake Eyes (The Costa book.)
-Scarlet Spiders
-Star Wars: Darth Vader (Kieron Gillen writing might be enough to draw me back to the dark side.)
-various Avengers books (Marvel has something in store, and the books themselves are excellent.)
-DC Crisis (This is getting more likely, but my interest is mostly curiosity about what comes next.)
-Transformers: Empire of Stone (McCarthy writing Drift. Put this in the same category as "Superior Iron Man".)
-
andersonh1
- Moderator
- Posts: 6478
- Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:22 pm
- Location: South Carolina
Re: Comics are Awesome III
Dom, how are you enjoying Multiversity? I thought the first two issues were really good, and the "good" Grant Morrison has made an appearance by writing a story that's creative and makes a decent amount of sense.
Raising the price by 25% made no sense, and wasn't a slight price hike. It was a pretty hefty one, and there was no reason for it. Same artist, same writer, continuing the same storyline, but they wanted a dollar more? I did the same thing when Batman jumped a dollar per issue in the middle of the Court of Owls storyline: I dropped the book. It was even more offensive with Daredevil though since they sold it as a first issue when it was nothing of the kind. It was a blatant marketing stunt/cash grab, pure and simple.Dominic wrote:Why did you drop a good book for a sight price hike? That makes no sense.
Re: Comics are Awesome III
So far, I am in the same boat you are. I am in for "Multiversity", but have not read this week's issue yet. (Looking forward to "Master Men" though.)
And, here is some fodder for discussion.
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/10/20/ ... -band-aid/
At this point, I am guessing that New 52 will be undone during quarter 2 of next year, and will be gone (as if it never happened) by quarter 4, maybe even quarter 3.
Waid is an a-list writer. And, if a book is good, I tend to stick with it. ("Earth 2" is the cheapest book on my pull-list. But, it is also the worst. Even without the weekly tie-in, it would be the first one I planned to drop.)Raising the price by 25% made no sense, and wasn't a slight price hike. It was a pretty hefty one, and there was no reason for it. Same artist, same writer, continuing the same storyline, but they wanted a dollar more?
And, here is some fodder for discussion.
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/10/20/ ... -band-aid/
At this point, I am guessing that New 52 will be undone during quarter 2 of next year, and will be gone (as if it never happened) by quarter 4, maybe even quarter 3.