TF Views

Onslaught Six wrote:McCarthy wrote the Matrix's involvement the way he did because Megatron Origin sucked. How long before people wise up and realize this?

A writer's allowed to retcon a past story if he doesn't like that story and the editors okay it. That's the way comics have *always* gone. When Frank Miller rewrote portions of Batman's origin with Year One, did people decry him as pissing on Bob Kane's work? I'm guessing they didn't, since Year One is kind of universally hailed as awesome.

I'm guessing, from Continuum, that Megatron Origin is basically being glossed over--the details aren't important anymore. I think that's how IDW's going with *all* its past stuff. Major events happened, yeah, but the specifics might be changed around to fit whoever's writing it at the time. Not unlike the artwork--Hot Rod is still Hot Rod, despite who's drawing him.

But there will always be those who preferred the past interpretation. So goes it.

I have several thoughts in response.

- The whole sequence of events in Megatron: Origin is sketchy enough that McCarthy's ideas about the Matrix could be incorporated into it easily enough without altering the story. We see glimpses of Megatron's rise to power, but hardly everything. It's not necessary to retcon M:O out, whatever the perceived quality of the story, or lack of. It's easy enough to add story by filling in the gaps.

- IDW is still publishing Megatron Origin. It was included in their collected volume 1, and as you mention, referenced in Continuum. The events are clearly still in continuity for IDW.

- When Frank Miller wrote "Year One", Kane's origin story was what, four decades old? M:O is less than four. It's a lot easier to retcon out origins that your existing audience is unlikely to ever have read.

Onslaught Six wrote:McCarthy wrote the Matrix's involvement the way he did because Megatron Origin sucked. How long before people wise up and realize this?

For the record, I actually liked Megatron Origin. I've never really understood why you took issue with it, besides the fact that it killed off Clench.

I liked Megatron Origin as well, but the whole thing is prefaced by saying that there are several stories circulating about Megatron's origins and that was simply one story, not that it was officially recognized fact. More like it was a fairy tale about Megatron's beginnings and that was one of the more popular ones. Ergo, it's one POSSIBLE origin and therefore if something contradicts it, it doesn't necessarily contradict continuity.

EDIT: I would comment on the current issue except that my comic shop DIDN'T FEAKIN GET IT!!!

First and foremost, why would Kup say the Matrix was the motivating factor for Megatron to start the war if Megatron saw it as nothing more than a mere trophy and/or curiosity? If anything, that actually suggests Megatron had some purpose to go after it, a reason to believe it was worth going to war over.

Artifacts or cities are regularly fought over, often with more bloodshed and at higher cost than are expended on sensible goals. Look at history for any number of example of this.

Studying the Matrix would likely have been a question of "well, I have it so why not?" But, atifacts and such can command respect even without having any demonstrable power. Again, look to history or even modern hucksters for examples of this. The Matrix need not be a stupidly powerful RP McGuffin to be useful.

Kup may have become addicted to those crystals' radiation, but he hasn't shown any evidence of a lapse in his mental state since he was fixed up by Perceptor.

Kup is also not Kup. He is Prowl. He would probalby lie, cheat and fib all over the place. If saying the Matrix was the reason the war started was expedient, he would probably do it. Prowl is not going to correct his proxy.

EDIT: I would comment on the current issue except that my comic shop DIDN'T FEAKIN GET IT!!!

Your store sucks. You want me to find a copy and mail it to you? We can tack it on to what you are sending me for that other sale.

McCarthy wrote the Matrix's involvement the way he did because Megatron Origin sucked. How long before people wise up and realize this?

You might actually have a point there. TF is being written along the lines of most capes and tights comics. And, there is a tendency in the genre to ignore stories that are viewed as iffy. Unless there is an editorial directive, (as Anderson correctly notes there should be), O6's idea is not completely out of order.

"Year One" followed "Crisis". After the first year or so, people were more open to change. But, you will recall that there was plenty of controversy about "Year Two" and later changes.

And, Schmidt has been quoted as saying "Continuum" is to be ignored when contradicted.


Dom
-so tired.

Thanks for the offer, but I'll find one locally. There's any number of comic shops around that I can get one from. I wouldn't say it sucks necessarily, this is the only problem I've had with them in like, 5 years of going there. And this is also the store where I found a MISP G2 green Slag for 8$!

So what happened with the Matrix in this issue? Did it end up with Hot Rod? Did he change to Rodimus or something? Fuck it, I'm going to a comic shop after work. This is ridiculous.

Dominic wrote:Artifacts or cities are regularly fought over, often with more bloodshed and at higher cost than are expended on sensible goals. Look at history for any number of example of this.

The point isn't about the idea that artifacts/cities are fought over, the point is what is the reason they are being fought over. What's the motivation *for* fighting over them?

Studying the Matrix would likely have been a question of "well, I have it so why not?" But, atifacts and such can command respect even without having any demonstrable power. Again, look to history or even modern hucksters for examples of this. The Matrix need not be a stupidly powerful RP McGuffin to be useful.

Again, you're ignoring the context of the story and what Megatron's motivations would be. Seriously, how likely is it Megatron would capture the Matrix for the respect it commands? He already commands the respect of his troops with his power alone. If they step out of line, he personally puts them in their place. He doesn't need the Matrix for that. And again, he kept the Matrix hidden from all but two of his troops anyway. Clearly, Megatron doesn't need or want the Matrix for the respect it commands. What else is it good for then? Well it's supposedly a device of ultimate power. And what could Megatron always use more of? Power.

Kup is also not Kup. He is Prowl. He would probalby lie, cheat and fib all over the place. If saying the Matrix was the reason the war started was expedient, he would probably do it. Prowl is not going to correct his proxy.

Prowl had Kup programmed to give advice Prowl himself would give. Not to lie and cheat all over the place. Besides, Prowl wouldn't have anything to gain from telling Jazz mis-information about the start of the war and why Megatron took the Matrix.

Onslaught Six wrote:McCarthy wrote the Matrix's involvement the way he did because Megatron Origin sucked. How long before people wise up and realize this?

Just because you didn't like that story doesn't make it a fact. And as andersonh1 pointed out, it still counts in IDW's continuity, despite the contradiction in AHM.

Sparky Prime wrote:it still counts in IDW's continuity, despite the contradiction in AHM.

Again, the Origin story was prefaced with a paragraph saying that the events of that book are simply one of the more popular stories of Megatron's rise to power, not that it's a historical factual account. Ergo, there is no contradiction. It was simply presented as a fantastical tale anyway so if something contradicts it, it's not retcon or a continuity problem. It only presented one story of that time and made it clear that there were other much different stories about it. We only ever got the one. Frankly I would like to see origin books made for some of the other stories. That Matrix theory sounds like it might have potential.

Shockwave wrote:So what happened with the Matrix in this issue? Did it end up with Hot Rod? Did he change to Rodimus or something? Fuck it, I'm going to a comic shop after work. This is ridiculous.

Okay, here it is. Spoilers, in case you want to wait and read first.

Spoiler

Hot Rod actually manages to overcome the individual Decepticons and take the Matrix from Starscream, through a combination of luck and risky moves that pay off. But in the end, Megatron shoots him at point blank range, nearly blasting him in half and shooting him into orbit. Think the same amount of damage that Starscream took in Infiltration #6. Most of Hot Rod's midsection is gone. The Matrix is still tethered to him by the chain around his neck.

Shockwave wrote:Again, the Origin story was prefaced with a paragraph saying that the events of that book are simply one of the more popular stories of Megatron's rise to power, not that it's a historical factual account.

What are you talking about? There is no preface in Megatron Origin at all. It just opens with Senator Decimus arriving at mining outpost C-12.