TF Views

Dominic wrote:I tend to think they are setting up for another multiversal reboot. The problem is that DC has barely used the multiverse that they have. The "Earth 1" books really do not need to be part of the multiverse. And, "Earth 2" (as much as I hate to say it) has been a creative failure. We got (yet another) Earth 3 (and it has already been destroyed).

How would setting up for another reboot explain worlds that shouldn't exist in the current multiverse? But yeah, I'd agree they really could and should have gotten more use of the mutliverse concept, especially when they made such a big deal about the multiverse returning after Infinite Crisis.

The post-"Infinite Crisis" multiverse had potential. But, it was trashed before it was really used. (The most use DC got out of it was "Countdown: Arena", which was one of the most idiotic things ever published.)

What about events from the Countdown series itself? One of it's plot lines (collected in TPB as "Countdown Presents: The Search for Ray Palmer") involved Donna Troy, Jason Todd (later joined by Kyle Rayner) and a Monitor (nicknamed Bob) searching the multiverse for Ray Palmer.

BWprowl wrote:Also, what untold nether-dimensions are your guys’ comic shops located in that they’re so hard to get to? It always sounds like they’re out in the country after a half-hour of highway driving or something, to the point that you have to make a big trip of it once every couple of weeks to get your stuff.

There used to be a store really close by where I would go every week. But since they closed a few years ago, the closest comic book stores (there's actually two pretty close to each other) to me now is about a 20 minute drive, and that's mostly on the freeway.

See, you obviously understand this concept, but then think it should be okay for people with pull-files to let their stuff rot unsold on the store shelves for months at a time, maybe longer.

Months? Really? A few books not selling the week of release is different from somebody not picking up their stuff at all. And, as I have said before, having the pull file lets me buy more stuff because I know that my books will not sell through if I do not buy them as soon as they ship.

Not having a pull-file would guarantee that I would miss books, and would eventually push me out entirely.

But I know for a fact that you still have stuff in your pull-file from a month+ ago. If you can’t make time to read something over a month after it already came out (to say nothing of actually buying it), you clearly didn’t want it that badly.

Or, maybe there is other stuff that I want to read more. Maybe I only want to read so many comics at a time. (Honestly, I am done with comics for the week. Want and need to be reading other things.) And, how do you know what is in my pull-file?

Not at my store, where the people with pull-files are the ones on a ‘legacy’ system where they still have them from before the store stopped setting new ones up, and I just *know* those assholes have that last copy of Van Lente’s GI Joe rotting back there that I totally would have bought the day it came out. Fuck that guy and everyone like him, I’ll be down here to by the books every week, just hold one for me!

Order a copy online then.

For fuck's sake. You flip out about people abusing pull files, but not about your store allowing that to happen?

From what you said, your store stopped allowing for pull-files after the pull-files were abused. But, they allow people who had (and, according to you, abused) their pull-files to keep those files as "legacy" accounts? Your store is doing it wrong. They should empty out the delinquent files and allow reliable customers to set up pull-files. The people running your local shop are fucking idiots.

How would setting up for another reboot explain worlds that shouldn't exist in the current multiverse?

On page, there is no evidence that it was the actual multiverse being shown. It may have been a record of the old multiverse, similar to what Donna Troy was seeing during "52". But, in real terms, it may signal a return to how things were.

What about events from the Countdown series itself? One of it's plot lines (collected in TPB as "Countdown Presents: The Search for Ray Palmer") involved Donna Troy, Jason Todd (later joined by Kyle Rayner) and a Monitor (nicknamed Bob) searching the multiverse for Ray Palmer.

"Arena" featured all of those Earths and more. Sadly, "Countdown: Arena" really was the book that most used the (then-current) multiverse.

Dominic wrote:Months? Really? A few books not selling the week of release is different from somebody not picking up their stuff at all.

You just told me about people that let stuff sit in their pull-file for 1-2 months!We've clearly established that that's a thing that happens!

Not having a pull-file would guarantee that I would miss books, and would eventually push me out entirely.

But people like you with your pull-files guarantees that people like me miss books. The only reason I'm not out is that I happen to really like the books that I am getting (and I'm not opposed to just stealing scans from the internet if I miss an issue here and there).

And, how do you know what is in my pull-file?

You've told me? Repeatedly? You post here about cleaning out the backlog of your pull-file nigh-constantly.

Order a copy online then.

Yeah, because I want to pay an inflated price+shipping and wait a week for something I should be able to pick up on my way home from work the day it comes out.

For fuck's sake. You flip out about people abusing pull files, but not about your store allowing that to happen?

They aren't allowing it to happen, they shut down setting up pull-files because it was happening. The jerks abusing it are ruining it for the rest of us.

From what you said, your store stopped allowing for pull-files after the pull-files were abused. But, they allow people who had (and, according to you, abused) their pull-files to keep those files as "legacy" accounts? Your store is doing it wrong. They should empty out the delinquent files and allow reliable customers to set up pull-files. The people running your local shop are fucking idiots.

You can't seem to decide here. I think what you do, leaving books in your file for weeks to months at a time, is 'abusing' it, but then you say that everyone does it and that's what it's there for, but then when I complain about assholes with pull-files at my shop doing just that, you agree that it's abuse and the shop should shut it down. So what the hell?

Believe me, if I could get the shop to hold stuff for me until 5:30 Wednesday afternoon, I'd love it, but I've only been going to that shop for like 6-7 years, and people long before me already ruined the system by abusing it, so only a select few, I'm assuming, 'really good' customers who are left over get it, and get to let issues of stuff I would want rot back on the shelves for months because, according to you, that's what pull-files are for. Is it stupid, yeah, but this is just two guys trying to run the sole tiny comic shop in a city that thinks reading is for liberals and queers, so if this is how they have to get by, then so be it.

Isn't the whole point of pull files (from the customer's point of view anyway) to avoid having to go to the shop every week? Sure, it gives the shop owner the presumption of a guaranteed sale that he can count on rather than just relying on random off the shelf purchases, but from my point of view, having it in the file means I don't have to hurry down to the shop every Wednesday to make sure I don't miss something I really want.

I know last year during the end of year holiday season there were times when I went three weeks between visits. I just didn't have the time, and didn't feel like fighting traffic, and I was glad I didn't have to worry about it. My books were still there waiting for me. On the other hand, there was a time years ago when I didn't make it to the shop for a few months, and when I finally showed up, they had put all the books back on the shelf and sold them apparently. My pull list was gone with no warning. I wasn't very happy about that.

I don't always have time to get to the comic shop either. In fact, MOST of the time I don't. I only go in once a month and sometimes it's been as long as two months. For one, I don't read that many comics. For two, sometimes I don't have the money. I generally need to have things like electricity and gas in my car more than I need comic books. Sometimes I get too busy with by having a life outside of being a TF fan and sometimes that prevents me from getting there in a timely manner. None of that means that I'm not interested or don't care, it means I have higher priorities that reasonably prevent a more frequent schedule. Not to mention the fact that even when I did have the time and money and was there every week, I often would have at least a couple weeks consecutively that there was nothing there. And, since the ones I do get only come once a month, at around the same time, it doesn't make sense for me to go more often than that.

Having said that, I do know that some comic shops will only hold things for so long before they cancel a pull file and put stuff back out. One store I went to would wait six months and that was it. My current one, I don't know, it hasn't come up because I usually get the stuff in my file within a reasonable amount of time.

You just told me about people that let stuff sit in their pull-file for 1-2 months!We've clearly established that that's a thing that happens!

But, where are you getting the sense of it being a great offense? Yeah, there is a near complete set of "Earth 2" figures (including a few that I might like) just sitting there. But, every so often, one of them goes away because the person bought it. (I have no idea what else they are buying. They may be using those figures to bulk up during light weeks. I dunno.) That pile has been there for a while. Not a big deal.

But people like you with your pull-files guarantees that people like me miss books.

Pull-files only hurt people like you if the guys running the store are idiots. If *everybody* gets a chance to have a pull-file and (as stupidly obvious as this might sound) the store orders to meet demand, then everybody gets their fucking books. Adam Smith:316

If I miss an issue of "New Avengers", it would be a damned shame. But, it would also be my fault for not adding it to my list. If I added it to my list, the store would increase their orders and then I would be guaranteed a copy by next month, maybe the month after.

You can't seem to decide here. I think what you do, leaving books in your file for weeks to months at a time, is 'abusing' it, but then you say that everyone does it and that's what it's there for, but then when I complain about assholes with pull-files at my shop doing just that, you agree that it's abuse and the shop should shut it down. So what the hell?

Why the hell is your store letting people keep derelict accounts open for the sake of legacy? Does CA have exceptionally harsh consumer protection laws that keep the story form shutting those accounts down? Seriously, it sounds like your store just kind of sucks.

You have said your store lets people keep derelict pull-files but does not allow reliable customers to start new pull-files. On what planet does that make sense? How much stuff actually sits in the back? How much stuff do those derelict customers buy in an average week?

If I had the resources, I would open a comic shop just for the sake of putting those idiots out of business.

You've told me? Repeatedly? You post here about cleaning out the backlog of your pull-file nigh-constantly.

The oldest thing in there has been there for maybe a month. It is the last issue of "Worlds' Finest", and I might just wait to pick it up when I start in on the weekly "Earth 2" book.

Similarly, I do not feel like starting a new TF arc at the moment, so I might hold off on RiD for a bit. But, when I get around to picking it up, I want it to be there.

I'd love it, but I've only been going to that shop for like 6-7 years,

When is the last time you asked them? After 6 years, they should trust you enough to give you a damned pull-file.

On the other hand, there was a time years ago when I didn't make it to the shop for a few months, and when I finally showed up, they had put all the books back on the shelf and sold them apparently. My pull list was gone with no warning. I wasn't very happy about that.

Some stores actually call before doing that.

Years ago, I worked under the table at a comic shop. A guy with a large file let it go for about two months. Because he was such a big spender before that, the company let him go for a few weeks before calling him about it. Then, they gave him a few more weeks (albeit without putting more books in) before breaking his file down and putting stuff back out.

Having said that, I do know that some comic shops will only hold things for so long before they cancel a pull file and put stuff back out. One store I went to would wait six months and that was it. My current one, I don't know, it hasn't come up because I usually get the stuff in my file within a reasonable amount of time.

Now *that* makes sense. Less reliable customers do not get to keep their pull-files. Reliable customers do get to keep their stuff. Amazing!

Dominic wrote:But, where are you getting the sense of it being a great offense? Yeah, there is a near complete set of "Earth 2" figures (including a few that I might like) just sitting there. But, every so often, one of them goes away because the person bought it. (I have no idea what else they are buying. They may be using those figures to bulk up during light weeks. I dunno.) That pile has been there for a while. Not a big deal.

That's ridiculous, why would you pre-order something if you didn't have the money to pay for it when it came out. A pre-order is something to ensure you get the item the day it comes out, not a glorified layaway system that keeps something out of the hands of people who would happily buy it now while you wait to get around to paying for it.

Why the hell is your store letting people keep derelict accounts open for the sake of legacy? Does CA have exceptionally harsh consumer protection laws that keep the story form shutting those accounts down? Seriously, it sounds like your store just kind of sucks.

You have said your store lets people keep derelict pull-files but does not allow reliable customers to start new pull-files. On what planet does that make sense? How much stuff actually sits in the back? How much stuff do those derelict customers buy in an average week?

Seriously, make up your goddamn mind. Is leaving books back there for a month before you pick them up standard procedure, or is it derelict? You can't agree with me that people doing it at my shop are assholes ruining the system for me, then turn around and say you always do that and love the system that allows you to. Which is it?

As I've said, they do not allow new customers to open new pull-files because they've been screwed over too many times in the past by people setting up files then not collecting. Even if they empty someone's file after six months, how the hell are they going to then sell off a bunch of extra six-month old single issues? That's a huge chunk of loss there, because some douchebag impulsively signed up for a bunch of comics he didn't actually want to buy.

If I had the resources, I would open a comic shop just for the sake of putting those idiots out of business.

Well that seems vindictive. The guys gotta eat, and if they can do it running something they enjoy, why not let 'em? Wanting to doom them to unemployment, homelessness, and starvation just because they aren't accommodating everyone at their comic book shop just comes off as needlessly harsh.

Similarly, I do not feel like starting a new TF arc at the moment, so I might hold off on RiD for a bit. But, when I get around to picking it up, I want it to be there.

You know you can have books in your home without reading them, right? If you don't want to read something right away, fine, but at least give the store their money for getting it for you, and get it out of their way.

When is the last time you asked them? After 6 years, they should trust you enough to give you a damned pull-file.

I asked again a few months ago the last time this idiotic subject came up. They turned me down flat. I understand, they don't know me. I walk in every Wednesday, buy my books, and leave. They don't know that I might not turn into a slacker who doesn't come in and buy things reliably once I have my stuff being stored for me there, free of charge.

Now *that* makes sense. Less reliable customers do not get to keep their pull-files. Reliable customers do get to keep their stuff. Amazing!

Except under that system, if you end up with a bunch of flakes screwing you over, you end up having to repeatedly un-sort and attempt to unload six months of now much-harder-to-sell product. As I've said, this is apparently what happened at the shop down here, which is why they let a few remain (because they had either been around long enough that they didn't want to lose their business or who-knows-what-other reason) and let everyone else just buy off the rack. I've heard the guy take calls multiple times from people who want him to hold something that came in that day, and he turns them down. If they get in while it's still there, they can buy it, and if someone else buys it before them, he still sold the thing, but if he holds it and they don't end up coming in, he's screwed. It's not hard to see what the right answer there is.

andersonh1 wrote:Isn't the whole point of pull files (from the customer's point of view anyway) to avoid having to go to the shop every week?

This is the part of the enterprise I really don't understand, why would you want to avoid going to the shop every week? I wouldn't want to 'avoid' getting my comics when they come out, I *want* to read them as soon as they're available.

Prowl, I think there's a couple of things you're not taking into account. I for one, have a couple of factors that generally keep me from going in more than once a month, at most. One is that, unlike you, I don't have a comic shop that's really "convenient" to get to. It's not really on my way home from work or anywhere else, so that's time and gas money out of my usual way. Also, I don't get enough books that would actually warrant a weekly trip. I get maybe 5 books per month and that's a heavy month. And what I get tends to come out at the same time each month. Going every week would be a waste of time and resources only to be told that what I want isn't there yet. And, you yourself have stated that comic book release dates are sketchy at best. At least with a pull file, I can be guaranteed that when I do go in once a month, it will actually be worth the trip. Also, most comic shops around here don't really have problems with people consistently leaving stuff for months on end (I'm talking about 6 months or longer), most of their pull file customers come in and get their stuff on a fairly regular basis.

Honestly, I see nothing wrong with letting something sit in a pull file for a maximum of about 3 months, tops. Not everyone has the time and/or money to get there every single week and they shouldn't have to miss out on the hobby because of it.

The other thing in my case, is that I generally don't leave huge piles of comics sitting there for long periods of time. Also, when times were more prosperous and time was less at a premium, I am known to spend more money there than what's in my file.

EDIT: I think one of the other things for me is that I'm pretty much disallusioned with the comics industry as a whole. Therefore, I'm not as excited to go get a new comic as I am a new toy. The big two keep cycling through the same stupid shit over and over and over again, and even when something new and different does come along it won't matter because it won't be relevant as little as a year later. So then, what's the point? I often analogize fiction being like someone telling me a story. Except with comics is like 20 people trying to tell the same story while arguing over the details of what did or did not happen. After a while of hearing people contradict each other, I just don't give a shit anymore. I'm really at a point right now where I'm done with non TF/MOTU comics permanently (MOTU is kind of the exception because it is technically produced by DC, but Eternia isn't part of the DC multiverse).

Dominic wrote:On page, there is no evidence that it was the actual multiverse being shown. It may have been a record of the old multiverse, similar to what Donna Troy was seeing during "52". But, in real terms, it may signal a return to how things were.

Even if it doesn't represent the multiverse, it still raises issues. Flashpoint for example was an alternate timeline where only Flash retained any memory of the previous timeline, but as we saw in that story, those memories he had eventually faded as he aligned with the new timeline. Of course being a comic book, I'd expect a timey-wimey explanation as to how anyone might have retained a record of it, but still, it begs the question. And what about "The Batman" universe? It's got nothing to do with how things used to be in the DC universe since all the cartoon series have pretty much been kept as their own thing.

"Arena" featured all of those Earths and more. Sadly, "Countdown: Arena" really was the book that most used the (then-current) multiverse.

My point being, Arena was not the only storyline DC did in the post-Infinite Crisis era that heavily featured the mutliverse.


On the topic of pull-files... I used to have one at the store that closed. I only got it because I was in college at the time and couldn't make it to the store as often as I would have liked, and didn't want to risk missing anything. Which was rare that they ever ran out of a particular issue, but it did happen a couple times. Dunno if the store I currently go to has pull-files, but I don't think they do since I never hear anyone asking about a box or where they might keep them. And I haven't felt the need to get one with them.

Seriously, make up your goddamn mind. Is leaving books back there for a month before you pick them up standard procedure, or is it derelict? You can't agree with me that people doing it at my shop are assholes ruining the system for me, then turn around and say you always do that and love the system that allows you to. Which is it?

If your store is really getting bent out of shape over a pull-file being backed up by a month, they are doing it wrong.

The way you are talking, they have a backroom with as much inventory as their main selling floor.

Most stores do not have these problems, which leads me to think it is your store that is out of step.

As I've said, they do not allow new customers to open new pull-files because they've been screwed over too many times in the past by people setting up files then not collecting.

You have been buying from them for 7 years. They should let you open a pull-file.

I've heard the guy take calls multiple times from people who want him to hold something that came in that day, and he turns them down. If they get in while it's still there, they can buy it, and if someone else buys it before them, he still sold the thing, but if he holds it and they don't end up coming in, he's screwed. It's not hard to see what the right answer there is.

How does he maintain regular customers? Seriously.

I only got it because I was in college at the time and couldn't make it to the store as often as I would have liked, and didn't want to risk missing anything. Which

That is a pretty good reason to get a pull file.